When you die do you think you can actually experience the destruction of your consciousness/ego?

When you die, do you think you can actually experience the oblivion of your self/soul/ego/consciousness? Of course we never know until we die, but for the sake of discussion what do you guys think of this. If there is no afterlife, would it be possible to actually "experience" slipping into nothingness? Or would you be unconscious in the act? From reading NDE’s; Even though they might be a hallucination, there is no doubt in my mind they are 100% real (maybe not paranormal but definitely a physical phenomenon) If people have vivid NDE’s, then wouldn’t it be comprehendible to digest that we could actually experience the oblivion of your soul? What do you think ATS?

This is of course some kind of mental gymnastics, I hope everyone on here will discuss what they think on this matter.

I don't think it really matters what happens when we die. Memories are just not important enough to us, that is why eventually in life we forget things and events that occurred in our lives, it is like those memories just fade away with time. When we die, it could be the same thing, it is possible we will forget everything that happen in this lifetime because we are too busy living the afterlife and experiencing new things that are better experiences than what happen in this lifetime.

memories don't fade away.
Plenty of people recall past lives.
and I've heard some compelling stories.

The soul can never fade away, perhaps it will physically disappear, but that just means that it has transformed into something else, into another way of being, another dimension.

reply to post by Maddogkull

When you die, do you think you can actually experience the oblivion of your self/soul?

Nope.

Of course we never know until we die

Of course without absolute certainty, I can reasonably claim there's no reason to think the idea of a soul exists given the lack of any evidence.

From reading NDE’s; Even though they might be a hallucination, there is no doubt in my mind they are 100% real (maybe not paranormal but definitely a physical phenomenon)

Well, there's no doubt that people's brain malfunction when it has a lack of oxygen or gets injured in some way which causes a multitude of problems, but depending on the way you were to die, I don't think you'll "experience" it in the same way.

reply to post by Whyhi


I meant self/soul/ego; anything that has to do with our consciousness. I guess that would actually be a better name for the title of the thread. Thanks Whyhi

Also NDE's are very vivid and sometimes more vivid then reality. If this is the case, then I would think in that scenario (when ones has a vivid NDE) wouldn’t you think they would be able to experience the dissolution of their consciousness?

reply to post by Maddogkull


I LOVE reading about NDE's. I've read hundreds upon hundreds from people dying in every possible way including suicide. What seems to be the most common occurence is that the person says they weren't even aware at first they were dead. Most report feeling more alive than when they were actually, alive. Clear thoughts, feelings of gained or expanded knowledge of "everything". There have been people pronounced clinically dead for anywhere up to 20 mins, have come back and described in great detail to doctors what was happening in the room, conversations, etc while they were supposedly dead.
I believe that when we die, we don't just simply 'fade into nothingness', but rather the opposite.
You can believe what you want but it's hard to argue with 1,000's of accounts from around the world, from every age group, that have extremely similar if not exact experiences after they "die".

This is one of my favorite sites:
NDE's

A lot of great examples from atheists, skeptics, even scientists

Wow, I am actually surprised there is not a lot of responses. Common ATS.

If there is no afterlife, I guess we experience our mental state shut down. Kinda like closing up a building at night, locking door after door after door and then finally turning off the lights.

Not sure if that's what you meant though.

"The only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life: your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away, but they're not punishing you, they're freeing your soul. If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. If you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels freeing you from the earth."

Your consciousness isn't destroyed by removing it from the physical vehicle.

If you are interested in the scientific basis for this look into Physiological psychology. The brain is nothing but a moving piece. It synthesizes the message created by your body however fundamentally it can not feel the message it creates.

It's an illusion so just like when you turn the light on in a room and the darkness is expelled so too is the ego mental level consciousness no longer a reality once you leave the body.

I think I know were your getting at Antar, Are you saying our consciousness just fades away? I am saying could you experience that exact second you slip into oblivion? (if there is no afterlife) It is much more complicated to me then a light switch; in my opinion

reply to post by Maddogkull


In my opinion we have not taken any birth and thats why we never die, we are all that is. We are the observers of ourselves so what you see as death is just an act of expansion of our focus from our little life to the whole.

I dont get what your asking.

If you die and theres nothing, then theres nothing there to notice. You wont even know you've ever existed in the first place. If you die and your there after the event, then your soul or conciousness is still intact so no destruction or oblivion has occured. Just a transition from physicality to eternity.

Originally posted by Maddogkull
When you die, do you think you can actually experience the oblivion of your self/soul/ego/consciousness? Of course we never know until we die, but for the sake of discussion what do you guys think of this. If there is no afterlife, would it be possible to actually "experience" slipping into nothingness? Or would you be unconscious in the act? From reading NDE’s; Even though they might be a hallucination, there is no doubt in my mind they are 100% real (maybe not paranormal but definitely a physical phenomenon) If people have vivid NDE’s, then wouldn’t it be comprehendible to digest that we could actually experience the oblivion of your soul? What do you think ATS?

This is of course some kind of mental gymnastics, I hope everyone on here will discuss what they think on this matter.

edit on 4-11-2010 by Maddogkull because: (no reason given)

Well theres a theoretical knowledge of what goes on, and theres similarity between all traditions.

In Judaism/kabbalah its taught that following death the soul splits asunder. Sound fun? Different aspects of us break away. Our lowest aspect, our Nefesh, is rooted to the body. This is where one suffers in complete agony over the sins he committed against his true self, his soul. How exactly this happens is hard to say, its different for everyone. But, theres a definite experience by the conscious mind of every specific action it committed.

Theres also a specific process. First ones experiences a white light upon death, this 'taste' brings pleasure to the soul (if it died in a peaceful way), but this eventually passes and then darkness and nothingness ensues. This is where a emotion of panic occurs. The mystics has prepared for this state and so trusts it will pass. By trusting, the soul passes through it - the atheist who doubts the reality of an afterlife has truly shot himself in the foot. After this one than experiences his entire life, both good and bad. First one experiences the bad (as darkness precedes light, as the creation episode says 'there was evening, and there was day'. This is where meets each of the yetziratic forms he created. These are essentially the spirits of each action, word spoken and thought he had while alive which severed his connection to the one reality. This is where 'hell' sets in. One experiences the true reality of what he did when he committed that action. The feeling experienced according to the Jewish sages is one of intense emotional shame. Shame like a shame that a social humiliation in this world would pale in comparison. Its horrible, deep and painful beyond belief. After one has been taught - that is, punished by the very child of his creation (the demon/spirit he generated by acting the way he did) all his memories of this behavior are slowly burnt away. Sorta like gold being placed in a hot furnace. The dross is the evil spirits which clung to him. After the soul has been cleansed of their creation by experiencing the real nature of what he did, he enters the world to come, the 'olam haba' as its called in Judaism. The soul than basks in the beauty and pleasure of the unity affirming actions he performed while alive. His positive deeds, speech and thought are angelic forms which bring bliss to the soul. The soul has no memory of the evil it did. Its been expunged from its being. All thats left is the good. And in this realm, called Gan Eden (garden of eden) the soul lives in a Yetziratic double of the world he came from. This a lower level than the one experienced by the spiritually evolved who experience Gan Eden, in a pure beriatic sense, that is, abstract and intellectual. In either case, there is great joy for the soul.

Than, if the person is needing further rectification, his neshama or the part of him which needs correction descends and reenters the world of souls, recycled back into this world by being born into a family which meets his spiritual needs.

Try to imagine the consciousness as a pyramid-shaped Rubik's Cube. When we are born, it's possible our consciousness is pre-solved (purity). As we age and learn, the puzzle unsolves itself, giving rise to the ego and individuality (uniqueness). Some individuals live with the ego their entire lives. Some individuals let the ego fade. Some individuals never develop the ego (genius/savant). Upon "death," the ego is shed completely; as the Cube automatically solves itself in preparation for an ego-less experience (a sort of "crash course"). The stronger the ego, the more "sloppy" the puzzle, and the more trippy the "destruction" of the ego will be ("life flashing before your eyes"). Likewise, a person can "die" without losing their physical body. This is akin to enlightenment, or NDE. The "schizophrenia" condition is probably wrapped up in there somewhere, as well.

So to answer your question: Ego, yes. Consciousness, no. Memories, not really, as we are intended to learn through experience (we have brains and eyes, after all, right?)

Originally posted by dontreally

Theres also a specific process. First ones experiences a white light upon death, this 'taste' brings pleasure to the soul (if it died in a peaceful way), but this eventually passes and then darkness and nothingness ensues. This is where a emotion of panic occurs. The mystics has prepared for this state and so trusts it will pass. By trusting, the soul passes through it - the atheist who doubts the reality of an afterlife has truly shot himself in the foot.

Leap of Faith? Try not to fail the first jump!

This is an amazing, Jewish depiction of a NDE.

lazerbrody.typepad.com...

Originally posted by Maddogkull
When you die, do you think you can actually experience the oblivion of your self/soul/ego/consciousness? Of course we never know until we die, but for the sake of discussion what do you guys think of this. If there is no afterlife, would it be possible to actually "experience" slipping into nothingness? Or would you be unconscious in the act? From reading NDE’s; Even though they might be a hallucination, there is no doubt in my mind they are 100% real (maybe not paranormal but definitely a physical phenomenon) If people have vivid NDE’s, then wouldn’t it be comprehendible to digest that we could actually experience the oblivion of your soul? What do you think ATS?

This is of course some kind of mental gymnastics, I hope everyone on here will discuss what they think on this matter.

edit on 4-11-2010 by Maddogkull because: (no reason given)

also

The self/soul/ego/consciousness are not the same thing.

The self could in itself be another name for the soul. This never 'dies', this is what one becomes aware of at death.

The ego, that is, my idea of myself as another person with his own personas, views etc, thats what dies at death, along with everything associated with it.

But consciousness of the self is what one has. Along with some modicum of an awareness of ego - but only its most pristine and undefiled sense. The ego experienced is one of transluence. Its only an awareness of 'this is pleasurable, i am happy' as opposed to a self reflective state where one is free to think what he wills.

Originally posted by dontreally
This is an amazing, Jewish depiction of a NDE.

lazerbrody.typepad.com...

Thanks for the link. I love seeing new accounts of NDE's. Its funny how Jewish people have Jewish themed NDE's and Christians have Christian themed NDE's. Leads to some big questions.

Could we actually have the power to create our ideal of the afterlife while were alive? or does the after life cater for all faiths by showing you exactly what you'd expect to see?

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

Originally posted by dontreally
This is an amazing, Jewish depiction of a NDE.

lazerbrody.typepad.com...

Thanks for the link. I love seeing new accounts of NDE's. Its funny how Jewish people have Jewish themed NDE's and Christians have Christian themed NDE's. Leads to some big questions.

Could we actually have the power to create our ideal of the afterlife while were alive? or does the after life cater for all faiths by showing you exactly what you'd expect to see?

What we experience after we die is a reality with its own inner laws and dynamics.

So the energies themselves are purely abstract. For us to interact with them they have to "cloth" themselves in the imagery that the soul theyre relating with will recognize. So, a Hindu will experience his afterlife in the terms of Hinduism, a Christian Christianity, and a Muslim in the terms of Islam. Each person experiences his after life according to the culture he was born into. So, there realy is an infinite amount of possible scenarios.

From what ive seen, and ive seen a few movies on NDE, this mans was closest to what it actually is.

Everyone describes a white light, and than darkness. But few get past that threshold and meet eye to eye with that inevitable reality, where the 'angel of death' or the manifestation of ones negative and evil actions, speech and thought (3 garments of expression) condemns the soul for its evil deeds while alive. For a Jew this is a little different. The Jewish soul is judged by Torah, and G-d has decreed that all Jews have to honor each of the laws of the Torah. In addition to that, he experienced this in the most highly charged spiritual location on the planet, the land of Israel. But the rest of us arent penalized for 'not observing Shabbat" or not wearing a kipa. What were punished for and what all human beings are punished for are any actions that affirmed either unity, or plurality. This has a massive possibility of expressions,. As something as little as indulging or priding yourself in your appearance, to really evil things like gossip, insults, slander, theft, murder etc... Each one has its appropriate response in the next world that will seek to reveal its nature to he who created it. This is measure for measure. This is divine justice in the most clearest of senses.

It seems timespace is the first thing to go, some theorise that from the subjects perspective time "doubles" into infinity.

Then, being dropped right into death one might have a tough, trippy time with instant loss of ego as in who am I? I know I was a person but I cant remember the name. Maybe with a peaceful death the ego dies also in comfort and slips away slowly.

And then I dont know what because I cant comprehend anything much beyond that point. It seems one has a profound life debriefing told directly or by way of visions (purgatory, lower dimensions) and then the soul moves on.

It makes sense that one is somewhere outside their timeloop in this state and can view life as though it were a dvd. Also there is this inclusion of having multiple minds ( which is hard to grasp from an earthbound incarnation).