I see dead people...with bug out bags

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posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 


Why do you automatically assume that none of us has been in a SHTF scenario in real life?

What about those members who were near Three Mile Island when the evacuation order was given, what about those who were in the ash path of Mount Saint Helens, or those who lived through 3 direct strikes by hurricanes in 6 weeks here in central Florida - Charley, Frances and Jeanne, and those who were in Katrina with the looters and murders? Or hurricane Andrew in Homestead Florida?

SHTF doesn't just mean intentionally man-made events - it also means accidents with wide-spread effects and natural disasters too.

I've lived off my BOB before when Charley struck and my girlfriend and I were trapped in her collapsed house for a day and a half and we were cut off from water and food, except what was in the BOB.

To blithely assert that SHTF has never happened to any ATS member is completely wrong.
edit on 5-11-2010 by mydarkpassenger because: spelling




posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by kadyr80


I romanticize ideas as much as the next guy, but everyone's overconfidence in their own survival skill, which probably stems from too much time playing modern warfare and fallout, and seriously, they may not admit it, but most have never even fired a real gun. Its not like in the games, kiddos. In fact, its absolutely nothing like in the games.



I love this statement so much. As someone who has grown up around firearms, I just shake my head whenever I hear people try to use their Call of Duty experience as being able to "pwn" someone in real life.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Judohawk

Originally posted by kadyr80


I romanticize ideas as much as the next guy, but everyone's overconfidence in their own survival skill, which probably stems from too much time playing modern warfare and fallout, and seriously, they may not admit it, but most have never even fired a real gun. Its not like in the games, kiddos. In fact, its absolutely nothing like in the games.



I love this statement so much. As someone who has grown up around firearms, I just shake my head whenever I hear people try to use their Call of Duty experience as being able to "pwn" someone in real life.


Agreed, that is ludicrous. CofD is a game, it is not a military-grade sim. My sim is hitting the range, doing a few laps and then 50 fast pushups to get the pulse up to simulate the adrenaline rush, and then fast-fire on the targets and see how accurate I am with my double taps.

Even that is not the same, but it beats just standing there and taking your time and calmly picking each one off like you're on a Sunday walk. A man isn't going to stand still and not shoot back, but at least I simulate the adrenaline rush somewhat.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by wayno

All of this SHTF stuff is pure speculation and hasn't happened to any civil society in my lifetime (to which it is quite dry behind the ears I might add). Therefore, I see no reason to fear it nor invest any money. I do think about it mildly, and plan subtle strategy but I sure don't lose any sleep over it.


What about the tunguska event in 1908 in siberia (The explosion knocked over an estimated 80 million trees covering 2,150 square kilometres (830 sq mi). This could have just as easily been a metropolitan or suburban area. What about Hurricane Katrina,Hurricane Andrew,The tsunami in indonesia or the earthquake in Haiti? Those have all happened to "civil societies" and all but the meteor strike have happened within the last 20 years. What about 9/11? what if the terrorists had hijacked 10 planes instead of 4 and decided to target multiple large dams on the Colorado river instead of the WTC? I am not prepared and know it but I sure do not condemn people that are prepared/preparing as being unreasonable in their fears.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Adamanteus
 


I am not condemning anyone. I simply don't understand them and am asking for an explanation. To me, it seems like they are taking things way too seriously. It seems like they are unreasonably paranoid. If there were only a few then I would say that is it -- paranoia.

But there aren't just a few. There are apparently tons of people, primarily in the USA who are on this bandwagon. Something is going on there. I am just trying to understand it.

It does not seem to be inspired by the threat of natural disasters like Katrina so much as political strife and breakdown. They seem to be sure that the sky is falling in that department. Are they victims of hype, or on to something?



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 


I cannot speak for others but I myself would be more likely to prepare for something of natural disaster ( I too live in central florida and went through multiple hurricanes back to back) Some people may seem to be going overboard but you have extrremists in all walks of life and behind all causes. this is one where I do not think being too prepared would have any negative impact unless of course all one does is sits at home waiting for Doomsday.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by mydarkpassenger
 


Living in Florida it is only prudent to have some sort of contingency plan to cover hurricanes. Hurricanes are a fact of life there. There is nothing unreasonable about that.

Most of the people commenting on this thread are worried more about the government collapsing, the government coming after them, or the American military being sic'd on the American public.

That is the fear that I am questioning. I do not like big government. I believe 100% that government is controlled by powers that try to keep secret and don't have our best interests in mind, but I do not believe for a second that they are going to come after me or that society is on the precipice of collapse.

edit to add: Ironically they are doing something with the water main and I am without running water today. They didn't even inform me so I could store up some water. Now if only I had that supply of bottled water in the basement -- it sure would have come in handy today.
edit on 11/5/2010 by wayno because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by warequalsmurder
 


You do realize humans survived long before electricity, modern medicine and running water right?



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 


I think this is a great topic of conversation, To Bug Out or Not to Bug Out...........

There are many idea's about B.O.B. either your for it, or your against it! If you need someone to point out proof at this day and age of why they have a B.O.B. then Im sure your time is to more important to trouble with building one at this point.
B.O.B.'s are not only ment for military style "Run & Fight Another Day" situations, someone above mentioned them for Natural Disaster, Home burning down, Break Downs in the middle of nowhere, etc...
And truely.... thats what they are for, enough on hand to keep you alive for a given time, until help arrives if a situation is at hand.
If you think a B.O.B. is going to keep you alive through a deeper situation, ie; Gov'mnt take over, Martial Law, Anarchy, then your sadly mistaken.Those situation's would take years of planning, unless you got a Chit load of money to throw out fast.
Personaly I think its great to see people "Prep" but sad to see the Sheeply type get taken in by REI, Cabel's, Eddie Bauer add's. How many times Ive been out and seen these people pop out of their Subaru ready to test their equipment, dressing up in all their fance little outfits, only to come back to the car after being turned back by a 2ft deep rain puddle that covered the trail.
Dont get me wrong, these companies sell "Great" products, but its the people who use them that make the diffrence.
Prepping isnt for everyone, its a personal view of how you see things going down, how ever it may be. Alot of folks have much more important things on their plate to bother with the thought or action of following through w/ a B.O.B. and thats fine, it doesnt make you a bad person. And fortunatly this is my thought brought to you by the new lib thinking, "Personal Freedom" to choose!

But now to my practical true roots survival mentality,
Ive been Prepping since I was 8, my father a carrier Air Force man, I grew up all over the US, but most of my time spent in Alaska and in the real woods, sleeping under the the Stars @ -20 below, the Northern Lights so close you can hear them crackle. By no means am I claiming to be and expert in any form of survival, and nobody can make that claim. But being prepaired for a Worst Case Senerio of your own ability is true human nature, not trying to decide on the $300.00 jeans or XBox.
These will be the people who have pissed through their little survival kit, two flats of bottle water and a case of Romin and two candles within a week. These will be the people who will be forming up with others to over run and take what you have, unless they get taken out early.
For those who think they are going to not worry about this until the time is upon us and loot kit from others once they are dead, keep in mind. We may be in a state of lawlesness but that doesnt mean we dont hold to an account of standards and morals (something lost within our Gov'mnt and passed on to their sheeply) and stealing a "Shoot first and Ask questions later" situation, get my drift?

To say your going to hold out at your home in a city that has some size is a bit suprising, hopefully your one of the lucky people to have a inner city group to rely on, but never be afraid to retreat.
Me, Im a simple person,I have a simple home in a small city, I enjoy many diffrent things in my day to day life, I have cumputer, XBox, nice motorcycle, great running truck, and plenty of friends.
But...............................
I also have a off the grid retreat to go to, a place that has yrs of food on hand, plenty of survival tools, communications, etc....
And yes maybe I did waste alot of money on top of the line camping gear and survival gear prepping, but at least I wasted it on being prepaired and not on some shoes or outfit that looked good or was in fashion.

Maybe a artical of intrest????....
www.survivalblog.com...



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Interesting thread.

I just wanted to share things from my own perspective.

We try and live "without" some luxuries now. We have been working on creating a simpler and more efficient and contented life NOW. We plan to live life in this simpler direction from now on, no matter what transpires in the world. We plan to try and live honorably and ethically and if it one day becomes impossible to do so then we are ready to move on to "the next great adventure". I have no desire to "survive" if surviving means only physically living and without the joys of really "living". I know that the importance that "mine" holds for me is no different than what others feel about their own. I know the perfect wisdom of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is unshakable.

I asked a friend once, "If a very young child, a toddler even, came to your door looking for food, what would you do?" The answer of course is let her in. Next question, "She is at your door because her parents have died of a deadly infection and she is starving to death." Now the response changes. No longer does the little girl gain entry. Why? Because survival, even if it means living with the experience of having watched a baby die on your doorstep, becomes more important than empathy or generosity.

I know this is human nature. I know that everyone seeks to protect their own above all else. I feel that is why we find ourselves, so often, in much of the social pain that we do.

Final question, "What is the little girl starving and scared and crying outside the door looking for comfort, security and food is your own baby girl? What WOULD YOU WANT those people inside to do?"

I have been teaching my children the basics of how to build fires, sew, grow food, raise chickens, build, treats minor injuries, make herbal teas, forage... but i also teach them that life is not worth surviving if you could not even bear to live with yourself. I remind them that fear of death is the single greatest weakness a person can have. I try and impart to them that conquering this fear takes away control others might have over you. I teach them about beauty and love. I teach them that the single greatest thing in life is to never lose sight of their place in the grand scheme and to always strive to treat others with the same compassion, generosity, trust, decency, sincerity, honor and honesty that they would like to be shown in return.

We are working toward a simple life where our needs are met by our own labors and we're striving to take as little from the limited resources all life on this planet depends on. We will work to protect ourselves and be vigilant without being insensitive to the needs of others. If and when life loses all purpose but survival we will try and remember what it was that made life worth living and bravely be on our way.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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Hmmm bug out bag..seems a lot of people have them and equiped with all sorts of gear ..and most of it very useful ..as it sounds many have read and bought the kit...BUT the kit is very little use without experience, knowledge and hard earned skills.

Like a question to many survivalist that live in the city..do you have knowledge of the chosen area you would do a runner to...are you a known face in the area ...because believe me if you are not ..when things get bad you will be shot..

I say this because over a year ago we jacked things in ..and now live in a very remote part of Scotland...and have learned a hell of a lot...and all these people that think they can escape if and when the SHTF they can escape up here ....life will be extremely difficult...and a bug out bag will only last you a short while..

Up here no strange face goes unnoticed....sounds aweful dosen't it ..but something I have experienced up here ..taken over a year to be acknowledged..so when things get bad...you will have to be extremely good with concealment and use of what you have in the "Bug out bag"..

So those in the UK do it now ..if you are going to do it...its unlikely that the gillies/game wardens, locals will shoot at someone they recognise!!lol



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Patrioitinsheepclothing
 


I've got no qualm with spending on stuff that has some function and not just fashion. But what chance do you think there is that you are going to have to go to your retreat for more than just respite and relaxation? Do you really think that you are going to need this place and that it will indeed be accessible to you after the "whatever" goes down?

You seem like a practical guy. I'm looking for a straight forward answer, if possible.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 


Personaly.... yes I do think TSWHTF. I think the retreat will be needed, I think there will be a limited amount of time for survival if things dont get under control after it does.
I see how open minded people are her on ATS but I also see "alot" of closed minds in my opinion, Im not trying to convince people "I Have the Plan" that will get you to hold out till the end. Ive been lucky enough to not go onto college after high school, I took the more dificult rout of living town to town and country hoping to learn what I could about the world and not rely on books that speak lies.
My youth was spent on military bases around the US, seeing and learning how the machine works. Finding things I shouldnt have and told to keep my mouth shut by the Gov'mnt (I was working for the gov'ment as a pest control agent, we were spraying a training field for mosquitoes and found a dozen 55gal drums marked as Mustard Gas, this was in "96" and within a city of 500,000) Ive seen how gov'ment covers things up first hand and does media blackout, (Viet Era pilot shoots down wingman in training session during flash back, dead animals dumped in underground hospital on military base then caved in and buried, miltary offices and wives running postatution ring and swingers club on base)
A member of my family was CIA, I remember them coming to his door for their monthly meetings to see what he's doing and who he's talking to, 20 yrs after he was out. Of course he told me things, some were true and some I still dont know about, I laughed alot about what he talked about (gov'ment take over mostly) but when I went to join the military, he told me not to, he even went as far as being able to get a high ranking General to talk me out of it. Maybe that was my real first warning flag, who knows.

I have a few friends who were or are still part of the Black Ops community, one of them was the only person to ever break into a U2 spy plane base undetected and take out the target. Thought alot of it was all talk till he had a issue with CPS and 52 cops showed up at his house and 12 military members to talk with him. Some of them mention things and some dont, but one thing is sure, they all talk about Gov'mnt take over.

Then you throw in the laws they are trying to put into place, no more personal gardens, well water being metered, rual living restrictions, GMO, Bailouts, backdoor deals. Remember the days when a criminal was found and they would make life miserable for them? Now people want to protect them, convert them, reform them, force victims to find compasion and sympothy for their attackers, only for that criminal to find another victim.

I find it hard not to see something coming down the pipe. Maybe it wont happen and maybe it will, but the fact for me is being around to help make sure it gets back on the "Right" track if it all does GTH any way I can.
Yes I may be taken out with the first round fired if it comes to that, or I might be a person who changes the tide of the situation. But my self morals wont let me sit aside and hope for change, and think a greater devine being will be here to save me. Real time evil doesnt work that way!
We focus alot on whats conspirecy which is a very good thing, because if not then we wouldnt uncover alot of what they are hiding thats right in front of our noses.
Not everything is a Conspericy for myself.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by veryinteresting
Interesting thread.

I just wanted to share things from my own perspective.

I asked a friend once, "If a very young child, a toddler even, came to your door looking for food, what would you do?" The answer of course is let her in. Next question, "She is at your door because her parents have died of a deadly infection and she is starving to death." Now the response changes. No longer does the little girl gain entry. Why? Because survival, even if it means living with the experience of having watched a baby die on your doorstep, becomes more important than empathy or generosity.


That is where I would fail the test and take the chance that the child was not a carrier - I'd rather die a human being than live as a heartless animal.

This is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of humanity. If someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night I know I can kill them efficiently and quickly, and then raid the fridge while I wait for the cops. But a child in need?

No. Some things are worth more than my life. Trying to save a child is one of them.

The old phrase "women and children first" is a pro-survival stance; it comes from evolutionary survival. On the off chance that child is un-infected, I'd take my chances: children are our tomorrow, and I've had my shot.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by mydarkpassenger
 

I completely agree with you and gave you a star! I don't want to survive if I must turn my back on the most innocent of all to do it. I've lived a very varied and full life so if I go tonight or tomorrow I've no complaints and I would risk my life for that of a child any day of the week. Who knows. Perhaps the child will pull through and I and my husband will pass, and my preparations will still not have been in vain.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 05:52 PM
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Great post, realistic also. (something not seen on here often.

I agree with others about generalizing, I live in a small town in the middle of a national forest and hunt and fish weekly. I visit the shooting range at least twice a month and shoot very well. I generally put around 300-400 pounds of meat in our freezer yearly.

I grow a garden every year successfully, and have wilderness skills down well enough to use them when needed.

I do agree though that MANY will not have the skills to survive long when society breaks down for whatever reason.

The best equipment won't save you unless you have a few things going for you........

1. wilderness knowledge. (fire starting, shelter building, water sanitizing, self defense)
2. gardening skills
3. shooting skill
4. Right frame of mind



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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In many ways i agree with much of what has been said on this thread.

I read all the survival posts here and on many other forums. I always have the same thought in my head. "for the first few elements of any disaster, stay put and look, evaluate and think". Unless the danger is immediate.

I have served in the armed forces at home and many places around the world, i have also participated with many units both domestic and from other countries. I have put my training to real life issues. Some small and some large.
I have worked alongside disaster relief agencies and participated in mock up drills and real events. I now work with some mainstream groups involved in public protection. I have lived on farms and have experience in animal husbandry, crop farming both mechanical production and farming using methods not much removed from before mass production. Ive worked for the Forestry commision, Land management group, Subsistance farming and feeding. Worked as a game keeper and many more jobs from rope making to carpentry, building, stock man, and many more trade jobs.

But even with my experience, training and current job. There is one factor that is a major part of survival. This factor is Luck. Something you cannot plan or train for.

From just my own experience i could write pages and pages about wether the best opion is to stay put or to move to another location, Depending on the situation.

I will say that if you have worked out that the disaster event has affected the whole country or even the majority of the world. In this event all support structures of a city will either of failed or will fail. So short term stay put might be a good idea. Until the water in pipes, sewers and the such start to become breeding grounds for many types of germs.
Dead bodies both animal and human in the thousands become biological hazards, a fire could start out small and very soon engulf a major city.
Any number of toxic chemicals, gases stored in tanks could rupture and make large areas deadly to you. Pockets of flamable fumes build up in buildings, sewers, subways ect and ignite.
Also staying put in one place could make you visible to any other single or grouped survivors, and that could pose a major threat to you and family.

Then there is moving out of the area and going to a new place.

You might not know the terrain you have to travel through to get there.
You might know the route by road but this might prove very unsafe, so again uncertain of the terrain off the road to your destination.
Small towns and villages could become polarised and treat any new person, even passing through the area as a threat and take action.


As i have said there are many many more things not only to take into account about wether you should stay or go. I think from experience you can only make the best guess on the information you have and hope it is the right one.

I have seen many posts about guns. Yes they have there place but in the untrained or partialy trained hands they are worse than not having a gun. Many modern guns need time and equipment to keep them in good working order, and once the spare parts run out they are just chunks of metal, unless you have the technical skills, machinery, and raw base metals to make more spares.
Plus unless you have a good silencer and a ready supply of spare silencers. The discharge would alert others to were you are. As after a total disaster all the modern noises of society that can mask or dilute the sound would be absent.
Then there is the problem of ammunition, weight of ammunition, storage, shelf life and keeping a ready supply topped up. Same as spare parts, technical skill, raw materials, machinery to produce case, fill case. crimpers ect.

As with any situation you can plan but as the army says " a plan will fall apart the minute you engage the enemy".
Plans, experience, training, equipment will go a long way of putting you ahead of the survival curve, but luck and chance will play a major part in wether you live or do not.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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I tend to agree with most of you. I grew up in NJ 20 minutes from NYC for 36 years and moved to Albuquerque, NM 1.5 years ago. I don't fear terrorism (even though I watched the towers fall from my office at the time), or nuclear holocaust, or natural disasters. What I fear are my neighbors when society breaks down.
Most people will do anything to survive especially when power, fortune, and children are involved.
Well even though I feel safer here then home in NJ, desert survival skills are definitely in my head now. This is still a city and that's the last place to be when it all goes down.

Good luck to you all!

By the way the reason I read your thread was when I went back home for the summer all I saw were dead people too.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
I respectfully disagree! However, either choice you make, to bug in or bug out has a ton of variables that will determine the outcome.

To bug in, means that everyone knows where you are. There is a network of roads connecting your house to a grid. It's like a big arrow pointing right to your location. The more you make it look defended, the more stuff you will be assumed to have making you a huge target.

While they might go as far as going door to door, hiking through brush and bramble will not be something anyone wants to do in order to go looking for resources. Especially when there's such easy targets bugging in.


I'll take my chances in the thicket by a lake - silent, easy to capture food, no need to build a fire to cook it if things get really scary, easy enough to stay mobile with the woods and nature being a better early warning system than ADT.

I hope if it happens, perhaps we'll both make it and have a chance to share stories over a campfire some day.


I hope you have extreme survival skills, not many do, and you'll need them in this situation? Easy to capture food and cook over a campfire? I hope you know how to butcher animals - it's not like Crocodile Dundee where in the first scene he spikes a rabbit and next scene it's on the fire on a spit.

Takes a remarkable amount of skills to survive off the land in the wild, not many outside the special forces military can do this.



posted on Nov, 5 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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The first to die will be people who have relied on the Government all their lives to provide for them, and those with mental health and medical issues.

It will truly become "survival of the fittest" for all concerned.

I agree, better off to hoard food and stay home, stay as low as possible so people don't know you're there.





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