Aztecnology = Biotechnology

Originally posted by gsup1
Give me the name of the book and I'll find it myself.

It feels kind of unfair
to have such one line demands
placed on me twice in a row like that.
If I could remember the exact name of the book
I would have posted it as a response to the first inquiry.

I'm left feeling the full faith and ability being submitted by me is unappreciated.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by berkeleygal
They would use those brightly colored feathers to make huge pennants that would literally float over their city. Being as the feathers were so light, any flow of air would make them seem like they were floating. I would have loved to see that.

What a great visual.
I remember hearing that
the Spanish were impressed by
how clean the city was, saying something like
no city in all of Europe could come close. Of course
later I found out that lazyness was punishable by death. But who knows.


David Grouchy

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b9626f03d433.png[/atsimg]

Also, apparently they used to perform this ceremony in full resplendant wear.
I wonder if they would fly higher while spinning if so.
Also from what I understand, the weight of
the flyers has to be fairly balanced.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by gsup1
Can you cite something that talked about the aviaries?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/08ae278af38b.png[/atsimg]

Mysteries of the Mexican Pyramids

www.amazon.com...

I found it. I think. Of course I would like to have verified this, before posting it.

From what I remember of this book there is a lot of insanity in it, and conjecture, but the odd detail here and there are quite interesting. In a word the book is mostly fringe new age stuff. The good part is that It has a lot of plates of old original surveys of the sites, and some of the measurements have been quite usefull to me. I come from a drafting architecture background, so I used it as a reference for years.

That said, I'm not even sure, but think that the quote about the massive Aviaries is in this book. Burried in there somewhere. It's quite thick. Unfortunately I don't have my copy any more as it was stolen in 1989 or 93, can't remember.


David Grouchy

There are some references to aviaries in Tenochitlan on the net but no scholarly papers on it. In my opinion, while the Aztecs were intelligent, they could not have known about genetics in order to design exotic birds.

Here is one of the reviews of the book from Amazon.

Peter Tompkins in this most valuable work takes you inside Ancient Mesoamerica and the archaeology done in the Yucatan by none other than Augustus Le Plongeon forerunner to the Churchward brothers, Col.Churchward and brother Albert all high degree Freemasons. This book opens up so many revelations a few paragraphs of review would not do it proper justice, get the book. Tompkins covers the theories of the Chuchwards, Edgar Cayce, Augustus Le Plongeon, Leopoldo Batres, and Don Carlos de Siguenza y Gongora.

... Just read you new post.
Wait...
so you're saying... errr

that the Europeans/Asians couldn't have evolved horses from small dog like creatures because they knew nothing about genetics? Cause that's the same argument you are making about the Aztecs. And we have pretty good evidence that through breeding the horse was selectively improved.

Ok, I'm not sure what to think now.
It feels like I'm shadow boxing with a poker player who
is taking sniper shots from behind one liners. Can anyone help with this guy.


David Grouchy

Ok let me be clear. Do you think that the Aztecs knew what a gene is? How to grow bacteria with a desired insert?

I don't know how to answer this without insulting you're world view, so please be patient with me.



There are other ways of looking at the world. Seeing it as more biological, than mechanical is all I am positing in the OP. You seem to be implying a labratory with labcoats doing gene splicing with the latest in _mechanical_ devices. Something I thought anyone could tell from the OP, is _not_ what the ancient Indians were into. Knowing the times and the seasons for planting and reaping, developing a mountain of knowledge on crossbreeding to bring out certain traits, yes.

But just because I have to describe these things in the language of modern science does not mean that the Aztecs were labratory biochemist. I'm just sharing a different world view, that may have existed. One where biological function, and offspring was more important.

Further, I thought I had made it clear that even this little bit of understanding had been corrupted by the Maya, and even moreso by the Aztec, who had reduced what may have been an elegant biologic calendar, to vodoo style blood rituals.


David Grouchy

I can't believe I've allowed myself to be made to feel so lonely and put apon by a series of one line posts, and a three sentence counter question.

Fact: the Maya creation myth describes a heart transplant. We didn't develop the technique till long after this was translated into English.

Fact: the modern day science of genetics was not developed until Gregor Mendle, and after the Germans had studied the Aztecs extensively.

I don't know what else to tell you.


David Grouchy

FYI,

We don't use mechanical devices to splice, we let enzymes do the work for us ( it is biology btw ).

Anyways, yeah breeding has been around for a while. What I'm saying, while the Aztecs were intelligent, they did not know the science of genetics as we know today. So I'm sorry, when you start mentioning genotypes and blood groups, in my mind I take it that you think the Aztecs knew the intricacies of hematology and genetics.
If you want to read on your own time at the library, read this:

Nature Reviews Genetics
George Beadle: from genes to proteins

DECEMBER 2004 | VOLUME 5

Originally posted by gsup1
So I'm sorry, when you start mentioning genotypes and blood groups, in my mind I take it that you think the Aztecs knew the intricacies of hematology and genetics.
If you want to read on your own time at the library, read this:

Ok,
so um, now you're assigning _me_ homework.
And persisting in failing to acknowledge that all of our undertanding
of these things came after the translations of the Maya writtings.

I suppose listing the Experiements at Pennington Biomedical Research Center,
that my family has been part of, the Lawyers I know who have degrees in Biochemistry
and are deeply involved with the fight over ownership of genes, and the years of personal
research I've done into the field are the only way that you have left for me to defend the OP.

I'm begging someone, please talk to this person for me.

:cry:
David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy



Christiaan Barnard was the one who performed the world first heart transplant surgery in December 3, 1967. I don't believe he consulted the Mayan creation myth for the instructions. He experimented on dogs 1st.

Fact: the Maya creation myth describes a heart transplant. We didn't develop the technique till long after this was translated into English.

It wasn't homework but just as something for you to read on your own time if you wish. Nobody says you have to do it.

Since you mentioned you have done lots of research.was it research done in a biology/chemistry lab or just in the library and through interviews with your friends? Can you elaborate more?

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Ok I'm trying to find the portion in the Mayan creation myth where it describes a heart transplant but it looks like I cannot see it.

Hey, your right!

I love what you're doing to this thread.

Give me another one, I can take it. Yes, I should definetly
spill all my family secrets, and the stories of all the people I helped
graduate in their various degrees in college. Oh, and the guys from India
that I taught how to develop artificial inteligence. How would you do it, they asked.
Well, the computer would have to see itself think, I said. And they ran off and changed the world.

My vocabulary may be in question too. Give me some hard questions about genetics
that use tough vocabulary words. I want to feel the challenge. Ask another one. Please.

David Grouchy

Originally posted by gsup1
Ok I'm trying to find the portion in the Mayan creation myth where it describes a heart transplant but it looks like I cannot see it.

This is what I want. yes, thank you.

Try looking for the Hunapu Brothers.
Read how a human heart was removed and replaced so that the person lived,
but then they decieved the Lord of the Underworld, and kept his heart so he died.
At this moment I can say it feels really good to have one's heart ripped out and not restored.

David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I'm not asking you for family secrets, I'm just asking what your background in science is....

Since you asked though ( I won't really ask you for terms though, you can just look those up easily), I'll give you thinking questions for your amusement.

You discover a gene called "A1". You suspect it is involved in the development of vasculature. How would you visualize its expression?

Originally posted by gsup1
You discover a gene called "A1". You suspect it is involved in the development of vasculature. How would you visualize its expression?

I have no idea what you just said,
or how it applies to they Aztec/Maya/Olmec calendar.


A year or two from now,
when someone finds this thread
all they are going to see is that I looked really bad,
made a bloody mess of things, and got what I deserved.

Please give me another one.
I don't think everyone has click off this thread yet.
Humble me further, so no one else will feel safe touching this discussion.

David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


If you have no idea what I just said then why did you ask me to do it?

Right now as it stands, I stick to the fact that Christiaan Barnard was the 1st individual to perform a heart transplant.

Now lets get back to the Aztecs ( for now atleast ). They did have aviaries and they may have attempted breeding birds, but they did not know the mechanisms behind it all that we know today. Do you agree with that at least?