Are we already Immortal?

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I would like to start this thread with a disclaimer. In order to really know where I am coming from you have to be familiar with the current ideas and some would say almost religion that has grown up around the concept of a technological singularity. If you are not at all familiar you should really look into it, fascinating stuff. Google Technological Singularity or Ray Kurzweil and you will get a lot of information. To give a quick synopsis for the sake of my post, the idea of the singularity goes something like this….

Sometime in the near future, technological advancement outpaces even our wildest imaginings. Most versions have the development of advanced artificial intelligence as the catalyst for this event. Now in a post singularity era, humans will become for all intents and purposes immortal and will go on turning all usable matter in the universe into computronium.

Now jumping along a train of logic without questioning the premise of the singularity, the next question becomes, “What do we do with eternity once we have it?” Which lead me, as I will detail below, to the idea that we may already be immortal? Someone far more eloquent than me succinctly surmised a major problem with immortality as this……

“A mind that stays the same cannot live forever; after a few thousand years it would look more like a repeating tape-loop than a person…To live indefinitely long, the mind must grow…and when it becomes great enough and looks back…what fellow-feeling can it have for the soul it was originally?”

I think the key to understanding this quandary and to so many other questions we have about the meaning of life and the possibility of life after death or the possibility of living forever is this.

We are already immortal.

This idea can also bring in the question, “Are we living in a simulation?” The answer to this question is also yes. I think at some point in the existence of the Universe either we ourselves or our ancestors figured out the secrets to immortality. Whether through the idea of turning all matter into computronium or some other as to yet undreamed of scenario we achieved immortality and when we did the question became, “what do we do with all this time?”

The answer to this question is apparent in our current reality. We live as many lives as we wish. You see in a world we would create or have already created where there is no danger of sickness or death and we have ended pain and struggle, I would argue that things would get pretty boring. Only through living a mortal life, suffering whatever fate and chance would throw at us in our chosen scenarios, could we possible appreciate forever.

So I would argue the Singularity has come and gone and we are all immortal souls that have chosen to live these lives we find ourselves in to grow and to help us appreciate our immortality.

well done my friend!
[i just made you my friend.] lol

I could agree no more.
We are already immortal,
I know it.

I wanted to post a reply stating this very thing,
in the other thread, about "i want immortality" or something like that.
Just never got around to it.

This is not even something i "believe"
it is something i know.

good thread mate, thanks.

I have another way of arriving at the same conclusion.

Whether the universe was created, or not, effects not one iota the degree to which the present moment resides within eternity. In either an eternal recurrence, a steady state, or a big bang, what come before us is an eternity and what comes after is also an eternity, something arising from nothing, same thing, from an eternity of nothing, something arises. The problem then, for the present moment, as part of some sort of sequence of events or an arrow of time and causation, is that it is mathematically impossible to count down from an infinite series, to one (the present).

If we are here now then we are IN infinity already, one way or another, residing therefore already in eternity, and sure, at some eternal point in "the past" "we" made this happen, at SOME level. If we are here now then we cannot not have always been some where in one form or another.

The present moment is an eternal recurrence (what I call an evolutionary eternal recurrence), right now, and our every thought and action, resonates through the whole of it all, forever, for better or for worse, and the choice is put to us, even now, what it is that we are creating, out of the infinite realm of the limitless possibility, that is the infinite future laid before us, and we its rightful heirs, we are free to choose. This is amazing! It's both a trap, and, freedom from the trap both, at the same time.

But this does not remove us either from an accountability, since the whole thing is operating relative to some sort of background, or an objective reality, against which we can only separate ourselves in our ignorance, and some do I suspect (ie: murderers) and like JC said they don't get back in (or out) until they've paid the very last penny, and that is not because of a judgemental God-like figure in the sky, but because that's the way the universe is made, that we might learn, and grow, laugh and play and create, pass away, get re-born, etc. etc. and it's all here now, with us now, and death has no meaning, not in the larger context...
- and then you can breath again, and start to feel like a kid again, oh sigh, and then there's peace, again, thank God.

Let those longggg summer holidays begin anew, eh? Remember that as a kid?

Let time itself become our tool of creation and creativity, since it doesn't even really exist in the first place, and is simply a convention.

Sad thing is (for some people), now that we're here, IN IT, we couldn't kill ourselves even if we wanted to, and from what I understand, it's not at all wise to do so, for the winding journey through the bardo.

Life still matters within this framework. It's real, and not just some sort of video game. Death in this form and ego idenity is also real, I mean we don't get to keep our "egoself" as it is, as we move along, so it's good to make the best of what we've got, at the same time, but no major worries, since "it's all good".

But if you judge harshly, and refuse to show mercy to others, however, be prepared to pay a very heavy price for that way of thinking and being, which sadly, is the way many if not most of us have been taught. So there's a LOT of unlearning to do I think before we can start really learning anything of any great significance...except for the realization that "we are already immortal".

Good one OP! S&F
Great obvseration, and one most of us intuit or "grok" most fully when we really delve deeply into these things..

This doesn't "sell" too well though for those who would wish to enslave us, because we wouldn't be so afraid if we started to explore our true nature as eternal beings, and they might lose their grip on us..!

Quick, now that they've eaten of the wrong tree, CLOSE IT UP FAST, before they eat of the tree of life and live forever.! The "flaming swords" at the gate, are probably a symbolic reference to some sort of mebrane or separation between the left and the right hemispheres of the bicameral brain..

So long as we don't judge and are merciful, then we're good, otherwise I'm pretty sure there are serious consequences for us, since at core we are all one, and no one but THE one can be the judge, so there's STILL one tree we can't eat the fruit of, if we wish to dwell together forever in paradise..

The tree of the duality of the firm judgement of good and evil - that is the tree that leads to separation and therefore to death. We cannot replace God, and neither would we WANT to (too MUCH responsibility). We must remain as humble servants (the greatest among ye will be the servant of all) within the eternal heavenly household, and never exalt ourselves too highly, allowing God alone to assign our place at the "table".

I tell you JC still has much to teach for those who may have thrown that all away.. on an ASSUMPTION. Everythihng I've learned I've learned from him and the spirit, by testing knowledge in light of that standard.

I just realized how to bend or play with time itself.

by creating from the future, through the use of imagination and inspiration, a whole new past, as we roll through the eternally unfolding present moment of now.

It's not, as Orwell says "he who creates the past creates the future", but the other way around.

Inspired creative action therefore, motivated by inspiration, is at cause.

When we create, we play with time, can't not, because we change the world in the process, in whatever form or whatever way however big or small.

Nothing from the past is creative or novel, but it can serve as a great point of contrast, and as an evolutionary causation of trial and error.

So once we've gone around certain circles for the nth time and start getting BORED, maybe it's time to play a new and bigger GAME?

Edit: The "end of time and history" is not the END, but simply the very moment that we recognize our own eternal nature, and thus see time for what it really is, nothing but a creative tool for us to use for creating novel forms, and maybe this is "the secret" or the wisdom of the ages, kept hidden from "time to time", because of its power to shape history.

We KNOW now that the so-called "keepers of the flame" dropped the ball (the data on that, is in), so now it's OUR TURN to play the Big Game, now the "fire from the gods" passes to the lone individual journeyor, you and I.

Regards,

Prometheus

reply to post by wisintel


So what your basicaly saying is the soul lives on forever and that reality or physicality is just us creating an anchor in time to free us from eternity. This leads me to one big question. Are people who practice things Buddhism, really trying to return to eternity? Free from the need to experience physicality. Could this be a mistake? What if the endless possability of being eternal, is far greater than the experience anchoring yourself in time?

I think the challenge is not to free yourself from physicality or eternity, but to have the power to choose which state you you experience without forgetting all that has gone before. Or maybe once you've become awake to the truth. You can actualy create your own state, thats matches your idea of perfection. A kind of personal heaven.

Great thread by the way

reply to post by wisintel


You know this story about Singularity reminds me of supercomptuer Cabal from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun:
"Time to erase the human factor from this equation..." lol.

Maybe super intelligent AI's will consider us humans, as pest, and will try to exterminate us all, so they could get to resources. I think it will be possible if they get self-aware, and then they develop their own "ego", but it is impossible to predict how will this story develop...

Great thread.

Boredom exists where the infinite meets the finite. An eternal existence would not find boredom if the existence held limitless possibilities. The trouble in perceiving an infinite existence is that we view it from a finite space, and the finite cannot comprehend the infinite.

Nice post, S&F for you.

Our spirits our eternal. 70-80 years of this life is nothing compared to eternity...

To better understand immortality,
we can define different kinds.

Spiritual Immortality be that of the soul.
Physical Immortality be that of the body.

Yes, we are all Spiritually Immortal.
And we are physically immortal through biological hosts,
however we lose all our memories from past-life,
and have to go through a growing up process,
as well as having rather limited capabilities.

What Ray Kurzweil and Singularity people are talking about,
is Technological Physical Immortality.
Where we can design our next-host-bodies and repair our current ones.
also allowing us to continue to be adults or whatever cognitive-abilities as much as we like.

Yes there can be reincarnation, and new-host-bodies.
Though the transition can be more seamless,
as the information is stored on solids,
and is easy enough to copy to new hosts.

You can of course try blank slate hosts,
or even have several host-bodies at a time.
whatever you so wish to do, you can.

One of the keys to physical-immortality,
is physical-replication that maintains technology.
Such as having a fabrication-laboratory,
to produce any technology.

Replication is our most important goal
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Replication or reproduction is a way that we can maintain our technology.
If we can make the technology replicate itself with our assistance.
Then we can have an abundant technological eco-system.
Remember we can incarnate as any technological-being.

It's quite likely the robot civilizations can be in the deserts,
since they are based on solids, and don't mix well with water.
This way we could colonize planets by simply adapting our bodies,
rather than terraforming them to suit our bodies.
Also many more planets and their surfaces will be available for colonization.

great post OP, and given that science has proven these theories as not only possible, but most likely, it really is our perception of reality that limits us

when talking about time and infinity, you are absolutely right, who's to say where in the great timeline of the universe we currently are, doesn't really matter since it's infinite on both sides, but literally and most likely the universe has existed an infinite amount of time before now

I also like to use that analogy for aliens to, scientifically & mathematically, aliens exist, millions of civilizations exist, SO chances that aliens visited the Earth at one point is more likely then not. So now all we are talking about is a point in time, and now one knows what time it is or when the clock started ticking

back to your train of thought OP, I've been leaning the same way with everything your saying, and the one thing for me that makes it really real, is TPTB and evil, just follow me a little bit on this, if what your purposing is close to the truth or on the right track, knowing this fits right in with how they work and there agenda, control everything you can make this life as long and as pleasurable as possible and step on and kill anyone that gets in your way because, who cares its just a physical world, but at the same time why not stay here in luxury as long as you can .....the selfishness and atrociousness these people commit on such a evil grand scale come into view

Very nice thread!

have you ever heard about the book "The secret"? www.thesecret.tv...
They also created the movie
torrents.to... here is the torrent,u must watch it! This movie tells you that u can have anything that u want in yor life:money,helth,women,everything! all you have to do is to realy want that thing!
did you know that every your thought has it own frequency?if you think positive about something, your mind sends that frequency in to space,and after some time you will get what you think before(good or bad)!
i think all this has some conections with your thread! maby we are actualy sending our thoughts to ourselfs(to our immortal soul).and what we think of we send to our "main soul" and it gives us back our thoughts!
Just watch the movie and u will understand what i'm talking about...I see some connection in here...

Originally posted by wisintel You see in a world we would create or have already created where there is no danger of sickness or death and we have ended pain and struggle, I would argue that things would get pretty boring. Only through living a mortal life, suffering whatever fate and chance would throw at us in our chosen scenarios, could we possible appreciate forever.

So I would argue the Singularity has come and gone and we are all immortal souls that have chosen to live these lives we find ourselves in to grow and to help us appreciate our immortality.

i agree with the "setting it up to appreciate forever" but once we reach "forever" ... we get to "appreciate it" ...

i don't think it will be boring.
especially when we may be able to experience time non-linearly.
our minds may be at such an ascended complex level.. that we would have more things to contemplate and do...
so i think it's tough to say that it would be boring.

maybe with the minds we have now it would be boring....
but with evolved expanded ones?

i dare say that we cannot say that.

-

I sure wouldn't find any boredom in watching the life cycles of entire solar systems for eternity if allowed. Or exploring this vast, possibly limitless, Universe.

Goodness is happiness, and all good men are divine by virtue of their being happy. The reward then of good men, which no evil can darken, and no wickedness can remove, is to become gods.

If goodness was a glory given to us by another, it could be taken away, but since goodness is a reward given to ourselves, we can never lose it unless we stop being good.

-Consolation of Philosophy

This sounds like something Ive read once before, you can find the info here : 35 Steps of soul evolutions