Obama as a savior of capitalism

Originally posted by projectvxn
We need a system that is free from centralized management. What we need is a free system where fraud laws are enforced. But we have to start somewhere, and the first thing we need to do is cut off the institutions of government that are feeding the beast.

For all idealistic value in this, it's thin on actual recipes. You see, I do believe that the likes of AIG need to be closely regulated in case we want to still have a fully functioning capitalistic society, as paradoxical as it sounds. If you call strict regulation and oversight "management", so be it. You see, a few powerful individuals motivated by greed can (easily, as we see) wreak havoc on unsuspecting masses. Capitalism in and by itself does not regulate, nor does it, by default, work for public good.

reply to post by buddhasystem



AIG got money for being on the losing end of a bad deal.

This thread does a pretty good job of putting in focus what is wrong with our system

We would not be in the mess we're in today if the Wall St. cronies in government had done something about the fraud rather than covering it up.

What's the point of arguing in favor of a government that aids the crooks in the crime?

Edit: I think you'll find that we agree on more than we disagree.

This system should have been allowed to fall to it's death. We should be holding a funeral for it right now...the best policy the president should have followed is to do nothing and let the strong rebuild this country and get all the theives,crooks, and demons that are weak willed and mean spirited out of business!!!!! Plain and simple, you cannot rebirth a nation without some labor pains... too bad the elite just had so much pull in our government to keep their little death dance going...and screw what is best for our nation as a WHOLE!!!!!!

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

The reason for the massive turnover last night was do to a select few ignoring the wishes of the masses who voted them into their jobs. Let's hope we can build on this lesson and move forward with the business of running this nation in the best interest of the each person rather than the interests of Obama and his cabinet. These select few are not supposed to work for him and that's why they got creamed.

The Republicans have always run the country in the interests of corporations, big business, and big money. They are concerned about the Rolls Royces of the few, not the needs of the many. Still they have been very good at duping the moronic masses into thinking they actually care about them.

It's okay with them to spend the country into oblivion with tax cuts for the richest 2%. Those accounted for the trillions in federal deficits under the Bush administration and will drain trillions more if they are extended. The bailouts not only saved the country from the worst depression since the 1930's they saved the economies of most of the rest of the world.

This Democratic administration is also in the pockets of the rich, but it has contributed much to the welfare of the average American as well. Not that the average American even realizes this. The PR generated by massive corporate funding has had a predictable effect on them. Simply believing that we need the rich to survive is evidence of this.

Originally posted by projectvxn
AIG got money for being on the losing end of a bad deal.

Look, losing money in a deal is part of capitalism. However, was it better regulated/supervised, the outcome might have been different. As you know, if AIG did go under, the repercussions may have been really catastrophic for the financial sector and as they said in my previous place of employment (a bank), money is the lifeblood of our society. So yeah, ironically, the injection of money from the govt was a maintenance fee for the capitalist nature of the system.

We would not be in the mess we're in today if the Wall St. cronies in government had done something about the fraud rather than covering it up.

Forget about the cronies. Greed can and does act all by itself. The compensation structure in financial institutions was and still is conducive of taking lots of risk (and that's why I advocate putting a cap on bonuses and/or charging a fine for failed banks out of top management compensation).

Originally posted by theuhstuf
Capitalism was a good idea, turned into utter greed by the usa. A whole new kind of system need to be developed in order for our species to survive.

Yes. That is guided by Unity, Community, Love, Cooperation, and naked TRUTH!

Brazil…They elected a "socialist"...and capitalism has NEVER DONE BETTER.

They are in an economic boom right now while the world is in recession.

Unemployment is so low they are importing American workers..

And are on the verge of overtaking France and Great Britan to become the worlds 5th largest economy..

Here is the recent 60 minutes vid..Fascinating and a little frightening how quickly they are growing.

Must see..

www.cbsnews.com...

Pres Lulu: Every once in a while I joke that a metal worker with a socialist background had to become President of Brazil to make capitalism work here because we were a capitalistic society without capital.

And if you look at the banks’ balance sheets for this year you will see that the banks have never made so much money in Brazil as they have during my government. The Big Companies have never sold as many cars as they have than during my government, but the workers have also made money.

Q: How do you do that?

Lulu: I have discovered something amazing…that the success of an elected official is in the art of doing what is obvious, it is what everyone knows needs to be done, but which some insist on doing differently.

reply to post by maybereal11


Check out yesterday's article in NYT, "When Zombies Win". Brazil is fortunate that they got that Lulu guy and we, well, got zombies in power.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Financial crisis brings opportunists, demagoguery and xenophobes...it's a truism of history...and we had one hell of a financial crisis...and after the 08 whopping, the GOP wasn't going to let any opportunity slide. From Kenyan to immigrants to death panels..it was all fertile ground.

Pres. Obama failed in assuming the economy would have recovered sufficiently by mid-terms 2010 that he didn't have to bother aggressively responding to the GOPs BS....with a recovered economy, public sentiment would turn on it's own...mid-terms came..the econ still sucked...the pirates boarded the vessel.

Problem for Dem and GOP alike?...The ship is sinking. My only optimisism lays in the fact that the GOP who has been the pursuing pirates over the past two years are now on board the vessel...and though it is a pirates instict to focus on fighting the crew and looting...sooner or later they are going to have to stop stuffing thier pockets and stabbing the crew and come to terms with the fact that they need to work together and fix the ship or sink with it....all the while pretending they were not the ones that put the cannon ball in it's hull.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Capitalism doesn't involve the bailouts of industry by placing their bad debts on the backs of tax payers.

Therefore, I am unclear as to how these actions promote capitalism.

What the government did essentially destroyed capital, not create it.

The currency crisis that was due to arrive during the baby boomers' retirement will now arrive within the year thanks to government's actions.

Although I should thank Bush and Obama for hastening the end of the State.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Capitalism doesn't involve the bailouts of industry by placing their bad debts on the backs of tax payers.

Therefore, I am unclear as to how these actions promote capitalism.

What the government did essentially destroyed capital, not create it.

Technically what they did was take capital from taxpayers and give it to banks and corporations...where theoretically the banks would loan money and the corporations would stabalize and expand....whereupon the capital would be re-injected back to the taxpayer and the system would fire up again.

That capital wasn't destroyed...just moved.

The issue was it was done without conditions and the corporations held on to the capital..and so did the banks....no jobs...no credit and loans.

We need that money back and in the meanwhile...rather than move capital we can create capital...invest in education...boost productivity and innovation in the USA through sourcing untapped human capital. We got a big bump when women entered the workforce...this is along those lines....Reverse the trend where only the wealthy can afford college...it's do or die time and we need to use all of our potential. Educate the poor kids well..VERY WELL...send them to college. Pay teachers like doctors..let the labor market squash the unqualified.

Infrastructure...bricks and mortar, transportation and technological. Goods move faster and cheaper...more people are able to contribute to productivity via technology...high-speed internet etc. roads and rail...commute easily to thier jobs. It revs up the economy and boosts GDP. Also new technology...it is what the USA is best at...we invented the efen micro-chip, we need to stop worrying about China manufacturing it cheap and simply make what they are manufacturing obsolete.

Just my opinion tho.

reply to post by maybereal11


No, it was destroyed.

Businesses are driven into bankruptcy because they could not efficiently produce whatever product they are making or the customers simply no longer want whatever it is they are producing.

To continue to allow that corporation to stay in business allows for the ongoing waste of capital resources.

Wasting capital resources IS destroying capital resources.

The market tried to regulate the corrupt banks and industrialists by driving them out of business.

Government regulators didn't like the regulation the market was imposing so they stopped it.

Further, in a bankruptcy, debt is LIQUIDATED - WIPED OFF THE BOOKS NEVER TO BE REPAID.

The debt was NOT wiped off the books, it was passed on to the tax payer who now must destroy his capital savings to pay back those worthless debts.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Keynesian socialists trying to supplant opposition by claiming they're actually capitalists

Yeah, and Bush was a strict Constitutionalist.


Give me a break. There is nothing capitalistic about the Keynesian model of economics. It is social and corporate welfare. Its another flavor of the same crappy centralized government philosophy. And Obama most certainly subscribes to it.

edit on 3-11-2010 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

I think the right wing meme is far more ironic and detrimental -

Oh the consistent lack of blood to the brain

do you have bills directed to you sire?

do you pay rent for a place to stay?

You have been opperating via a capitalist system...

it is insulting to my intelligence this black and white foolishness

I have been locked square in capitalism my whole life, therefore I think you are completely full of it dude.

Tell me what have you received free via the socialist model???

And how long has this country been practicing the Keynesian model of economics?

Thats right your whole bleeding life mate, so WTH are you talking about?

Obama the "socialist" did not choose to inflict the socialist healthcare plan, our auto industry was RE PRIVATIZED - what kind of socialist is he then??? Where is my free stuff a???

wear an oxygen mask and stand up straight - I don't buy the foolishness, antibellum

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Capitalism doesn't involve the bailouts of industry by placing their bad debts on the backs of tax payers.

Therefore, I am unclear as to how these actions promote capitalism.

What the government did essentially destroyed capital, not create it.

The currency crisis that was due to arrive during the baby boomers' retirement will now arrive within the year thanks to government's actions.

Although I should thank Bush and Obama for hastening the end of the State.

edit on 21-12-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

Well communism doesn't include private industry and individuals working directly against the interests of the state and the collective does it.

As far I can tell I have been paying my bills, so tell me how is that socialism?

reply to post by buddhasystem


Too bad he's making George W Bush look like Mr.Rogers when it comes to his Justice Department. And we still have two more years to go.