A Historic Opportunity

The Checks and Balances have been restored to the government. It's only been there for 2 of the last 10 years and they were filled with bickering and gridlock. The monopolies did even worse. The opportunity is here for Washington to heal itself. Get past the partisan BS(no other word for it) and focus on what's best for the country and not the party. Can this happen? Will Obama reach across the aisle? If so will Congress accept that hand?

Blanket policies don't work. The right or the left, neither are completely right, or good for the people. The answer is in the middle. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. It has to get past the infantile stance of shooting down the other guys policy just because it's their policy. It's time for working together. Can these people do it?

Originally posted by intrepid
Can these people do it?

My confidence is low. The Republicans will do whatever they can to throw a monkey wrench in the machinery. The mission now is the White House in 2012. They're not likely to do much that might put Obama in a positive light, or allow him to spin anything as his accomplishment.

This is a dangerous game, and can easily backfire. If the Dems can point to the Reps as progress impeding bad guys, the Democrats could regain the majority and reelect Obama. Could happen anyway, if the Republicans don't board the Clue Train and find some viable candidates. Palin ain't it, for sure. If they trot her out for fund raisers, that can be an advantage. And one that's lost as soon as she opens her mouth.

Notice I said "game". It's all politics 24-7. Governing takes a seat so far back you can't even see it from where they are.

Absolutely, 'trep.

This is not a mandate for the GOP, it is, at best, a second chance for them to walk the talk... ...and they'd best know that some of us will be, and already are, watching.

So, too, the President had better realize that whatever hopes he has of a second term rest on his ability to back up and take another gander at what the majority of Americans truley want, not what he thinks they need. If he can't come to that reassessment, he's doomed...and he'll be mentioned in the same breath as Jimmy Carter, James Buchanan, as one of the worst, if not the worst, Presidents ever.

So... Wonder what'll happen?

If I had to guess? Given their propensity to partisanship, nothing'll change, but with split houses of Congress, gridlock. Which is an improvement over same party control over both houses and the White House. But not much.

reply to post by intrepid

Will Obama reach across the aisle? If so will Congress accept that hand?

I'm curious why Obama has to reach across the aisle? Why don't you suggest that the Republicans reach across the aisle?

Republicans are still the "minority" on capital hill. Dems control the Senate and the Oval Office. It seems you are suggesting that Obama and the democrats should bend to the Republicans will instead of the Republicans trying to work within the Democrats agenda.

If the Republicans really try to work with the Democrats...things may get better.

If the Republicans go in there with the attitude of "it's our way now, or nothing gets done"...we will all suffer.

reply to post by intrepid


Political polarization in the US is so strong that nothing will ever get done. Just more sniping, finger pointing, chest thumping, and the ever present "people like you" rhetoric. Just like here on ATS.

No compromise, no coming together in the best interest of the people and sorry NO historic opportunities.

God help us!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by intrepid

 

Will Obama reach across the aisle? If so will Congress accept that hand?

I'm curious why Obama has to reach across the aisle? Why don't you suggest that the Republicans reach across the aisle?

I'm curious as to why that is even an issue for you. That's the partisan thinking that has this country in the fix it's in. As to why Obama? Because he's the president. He SHOULD lead.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by intrepid

 

Will Obama reach across the aisle? If so will Congress accept that hand?

I'm curious why Obama has to reach across the aisle? Why don't you suggest that the Republicans reach across the aisle?

I'm curious as to why that is even an issue for you. That's the partisan thinking that has this country in the fix it's in. As to why Obama? Because he's the president. He SHOULD lead.

As I just described....

The divisions and rancor persist, even here on ATS

Perhaps the historic opportunity should start here

reply to post by intrepid

I'm curious as to why that is even an issue for you. That's the partisan thinking that has this country in the fix it's in. As to why Obama? Because he's the president. He SHOULD lead.

Pretending that congress isn't partisan is just denying the reality of the situation.

As someone said earlier...it is a game...whether you like it or not...you or I can't change it.

Obama should lead...with HIS agenda...not the Republicans. He should lead by hearing republican ideas...like he did with the healthcare bill. You do know that the healthcare bill was filled with REPUBLICAN amendments...right?


So the fact is that Obama has been reaching across the aisle...if he hadn't already been doing this...nothing would of been done up to this point. But now it seems like you want Obama to bend to the Republican agenda and abandon his own.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm curious why Obama has to reach across the aisle? Why don't you suggest that the Republicans reach across the aisle?

For the sake of the country, I don't think anyone cares who reaches where. What we need are results. It's amazing what can be accomplished when no one cares who gets the credit. Unfortunately, Washington is populated with a bunch of wonks who run in front of a crowd and proclaim themselves leaders, or find an accomplishment to claim some glory.

You reach.
No, you.
I'm not reaching, then I'll be seen as weak.
Okay then, I'm not either.

And aroundandaround we go.

Where's the Great Unificater when we need him?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
But now it seems like you want Obama to bend to the Republican agenda and abandon his own.

That is only a perception and an inaccurate one. Reread the OP. What I want to see is actual bi-partisan action.

reply to post by yeahright

My confidence is low. The Republicans will do whatever they can to throw a monkey wrench in the machinery. The mission now is the White House in 2012. They're not likely to do much that might put Obama in a positive light, or allow him to spin anything as his accomplishment.

This is a dangerous game, and can easily backfire. If the Dems can point to the Reps as progress impeding bad guys, the Democrats could regain the majority and reelect Obama.

I agree...the 2012 campaign has now started.

Obama and the Dems are actually in a better position now than they were before last night for 2012.

If Republicans block everything the Dems want to do...they will be viewed and promoted as obstructionist.

If Republicans work with Democrats on the Democrats agenda...they will be viewed as "traitors".

The Democrats have on way of screwing up. If they bend to the Republicans and allow the Republicans to control the agenda and work with them to pass the Republicans agenda...the Dems are screwed.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The Democrats have on way of screwing up. If they bend to the Republicans and allow the Republicans to control the agenda and work with them to pass the Republicans agenda...the Dems are screwed.

What if the Republicans ideas on certain issues is what is good for the country? That's my point. The people are going to keep a close eye on the next 2 years to see who's going to work for THEM, not a party. Like I said, a historic opportunity. Who's going to make the most of it?

reply to post by intrepid

What if the Republicans ideas on certain issues is what is good for the country? That's my point.

But who makes that call? The problem is that the two sides think different things are good for the country...and the people that have voted these people into office have different ideas for what is good for the country.

I think the Health Care bill is good for the country...I'm glad it passed...I hope it is increased upon in the future. Other people don't.

The two sides have different ideas of what is "good"...as do the people supporting those two sides. So if one caves into the others idea...it makes a whole group of supporters angry.

There is not a universal definition of "what is good" for the country.

The people are going to keep a close eye on the next 2 years to see who's going to work for THEM, not a party. Like I said, a historic opportunity. Who's going to make the most of it?

Again...these people who are going to keep a close eye on them...they all have different ideas of what working for THEM means.

I don't understand what you are trying to say...it's not just congress that is divided on these issues...the country is divided on these issues.

reply to post by yeahright

For the sake of the country, I don't think anyone cares who reaches where.

I disagree.

Do you think the TEA Partiers will care if all the newly elected republicans go to Washington, walk up to Obama and say "We are here to help you."???

Do you think the Democratic base will care if Obama goes to the Republican controlled house and say, "Ok...you guys set the agenda..what should we do?"???


Like I said before...it's not just congress that is divided on these issues...the entire country is.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Who decides what's good for the country? The people of course. You mention the parties political "bases". That is only one part of the voting public. You can't win an election with just your political base. It's the HUGE mass of voters in the middle that matter. It's time that the political parties realize that. It's not what's good for the party is good for the country. In fact it's the exact opposite.

President Obama is, as all Presidents are expected to be, supposed to be the leader of the nation. Not Congress. They supply the means with witch to lead.

By extending a hand to the GOP, he's not necessarily abandoning his agenda...though IMHO, he might want to start rethinking some of it at the very least...he shows that he's willing to talk to the opposition. Remember, he's still holding the high cards here. The GOP can't do anything about removing what he's already done, he and his party control the Senate, and the VETO pen...

By reaching out, whether he's sincere or not, he gives at least the impression of a willingness to try to work with the GOP.

On the flip side, the GOP House leadership by doing the same thing shows, supposedly, a willingness to do the same.

"supposedly" "gives at least the impression". I sometimes wonder when I first became so sinical about politicians? I suppose, as with many my age, it was Watergate...

reply to post by intrepid


And like I said...even the people are divided on what they think is good for the country.

It is true you can't win with only your "base"...but you aren't going to win without them either. And I don't think the "middle" is as large as people think. Motivation to go out and vote is bigger than anything else in my opinion. I think the lines are firmly drawn and elections are only decided by who is motivated to go out and vote.

The Health Care Reform is a perfect example. I think it was good for the country...there are a lot of people that agree with me...and there are a lot of people that disagree with me. So is it good for the country? I guess in this case, time will tell...but that isn't what elections are about...elections are about what we "think" will be good.


Let's look at what the congress will have to deal with next. The Bush tax cuts. I am 100% on board with Obama's plan...extend the tax cuts for all except the top bracket. Let those return to the pre-Bush area rates...and increase of THREE percent...just THREE percent. If a THREE percent increase on your income OVER 250k (not all income...just that which is over 250k) isn't going to make or break anyone...or make or break a business. And it will save a ton of money. Saving money...not hurting the middle and lower class who are already hurting....two positives in my book.

If Obama bends to the Republicans on this...I pretty much write him off as a candidate in 2012. I will have zero motiviation to go out and vote for him. He has already caved on other issues...this would be the last straw for me. I'm sure I am not alone.

If Republicans bend to Obama's will on this issue...I'm sure there are people that will not be motivated to go re-elect them.


So it isn't that simple...when the people can't decide what is "good for the country" and what they want to see done...how do you expect congress to?

reply to post by seagull


Do you not believe he has already reached out to Republicans?

Do you believe he has not already worked with them to get some of their ideas into passed bills?

As much as it pains me to say this, I don't hold out a lot of hope for anything positive coming out of this, save gridlock and the government becoming impotent for two more years.

I sat last night, looking at the election returns until I literally passed out. Every local race (state level down) I looked at the name. Every Federal election, I looked at the party. Why? Because I have no hope left for the Feds... the best thing they can do is get out of my way and everyone's way and let the country heal. I have some hope left for the state and the municipalities.

The Federal government is full of checks and balances designed specifically to make it very difficult to do anything major. ALL major changes harbor some level of risk, and thus should be carefully considered form every angle before being implemented. That is the task assigned to the Senators and Representatives. It therefore is a direct violation of the Founding Fathers' intentions when a 'party' is capable fo passing any major change without opposition being an integral part of the consideration.

Now why do I have no hope left for the Feds? Look at this thread. A call is made for bi-partisanism. A call is made to put the American peoples interests ahead of party interests. A call is made to reach across this artificial aisle.... and the argument is raised as to who should do the reaching.

BOTH SHOULD!

Heck, this aisle shouldn't even exist! My Senators are Shelby and Sessions, both Republicans. I really don't care when I contact them if the bill I am concerned with is 'sponsored' by a Republican or Democrat... I care if it looks like a good bill for the PEOPLE in the USA. Will it probably increase employment? Income? Personal responsibility? Security?

Those are not partisan issues. They are Federal issues.

Personally I would love to see political parties outlawed... no more little checkboxes on my income tax return begging me to send my refund to a political party. No more huge amounts of money shuffled in by both sides via a party affiliation to skew a message. No more 'aisles' in the Congress... heck, most of them act like kindergartners, so seat them alphabetically and make them raise their hand when they need to go potty.

America elected Obama at a time when the House and Senate both were controlled by Democrats... what did we get? Increased spending and debt, even beyond what Bush managed. Government take-over of businesses who accepted the unconstitutional bailouts (sadly, the only bi-partisan effort I can remember in recent history). No increased security on the border. Iran still has troops, and for every one that left, one showed up in Afghanistan. Continued unemployment. Continued bank failures. Increased taxes. Increased regulation. And a looming threat that you will buy health insurance, regardless of the cost, regardless of whether you need the money for food or shelter, because the Democrats want you to.

That's right. We did not get health reform. We got health insurance reform. No controls on pricing, no controls on quality, no legal requirements for doctors to see us.... just a requirement to buy health insurance.

So yeah, I agree with Outkast... Obama shouldn't have to reach across the aisle.

THERE SHOULDN'T BE AN AISLE!

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


That's a good post Redneck. I agree with about half of it...and disagree with the other. Just like most things in life.

Here is my position...there should be no reaching across the aisle...not because there should be no aisle..but because the agenda should be pushed forward in it's complete state.

Allowing compromise, in my opinion, can destroy any good plan. If the Democrats or the Republicans have been elected to power...they should run with their agenda without compromise. If you reach across the aisle and compromise...it is just going to weaken or perhaps destroy a well thought out plann.

I may not agree with an agenda the Republicans put forth...but if they have formulated a well laid out plan...at least if they are allowed to execute that plan there shouldn't be too many unforseen problems. But if they let the democrats add in some of their own ideas as a compromise...who knows what will come of it.

This is what I see with the Health Care Reform. The Democrats had an agenda...they had a plan. They compromised some big parts of it, like the public option...and now we really don't know what we have. Now we kind of have to wait and see how things work out. If it was left alone, and passed how the Democrats originally proposed it...I think we would have a much clearer picture of what the future of healthcare would look like.


Obama likes to use the "car" analogy. So let's play with that a litttle. Say I am driving...I have been elected by the people to drive the car. And say I want to drive it a certain way...let's say I want to drive fast. I will push the gas peddle to the floor...and turn quickly when obstacles get in the way. Now my passenger doesn't like that idea...he wasn't to drive slowly...and when obstacles get in the way...he wants to slow down the car and slowly drive around the obstacles. What happens if we compromise? I say, "Ok...let's compromise...I'll control the gas peddle using my philosophy of driving fast...you do the stearing using your philosophy of stearing slowly." What do you think is going to happen???

It would be much better for there to be no compromise...no matter what happens...at least we have a better chance at success.

At least that is my opinion on it.