The United States Of America 1776 - 2010 RIP!

reply to post by buddhasystem


" Sorry but the way pure capitalism works is entirely un-human. You lose job, you die of starvation. Thanks but no thanks. "


Hmm... Sounds like someone is Upset that they are losing their " Nanny State " . Capatialism works , if You DO.......

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

You conveniently left out a word, which would render your sad argument useless.

General welfare, not individual.

General = nation

The entire nation doesnt benefit from using public funds to provide a meal for an individual

Well now, the entire nation does not benefit from providing a meal for AN individual, that much is true. It does benefit from preventing some of its own from becoming destitute, hungry and sick in difficult times, which, as you know, are just part of doing business as usual, in our system.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

" Sorry but the way pure capitalism works is entirely un-human. You lose job, you die of starvation. Thanks but no thanks. "


Hmm... Sounds like someone is Upset that they are losing their " Nanny State " . Capatialism works , if You DO.......

What part of "starvation" don't you understand? What part of "basic research" is beyond your mental capacity?

You made a fetish out of capitalism, plain and simple. I worked all my life and didn't need any "nannies", but your whole take on life is just astonishingly backward. Nobody on this board ever answered one of my questions e.g. why public transportation in the US just plain sucks compared to most (all) developed countries? Including those "nanny states"? How come more people in Europe have an opportunity to receive college education without plunging in debt? Are you even aware that medical bills are number 1 cause of bankruptcies here in the US? Is that normal?

We all had a chance to see how "capitalism works" when the financial sector moguls lined their pockets by gambling with assets. That's pure and unbridled capitalism for you. And until all goes bust, it's fine and dandy, except this time it didn't end that well. Capitalism also works absolutely fine by exporting our jobs to India and elsewhere. All hail capitalism.

Duh.

Let me understand this correctly,

The republicans want to extend the TAX BREAKS

and in the same breath want to stop WASTEFUL SPENDING....

This is a contradiction as our tax money drives this monstrosity and if we get taxed less, the government has less to spend, and they then have to withdraw from war

reply to post by buddhasystem


Well , lets see . I Work for a Living , never took a Dime from the Goverment over the last 40 years . All I have Today I earned through my Labor , it's Mine . I am an Independent person because I was allowed to do this being born in a Free Capitalistic Country . My fellow Americans have the same Opportunuties that I have , and if some of them need the Goverment to Survive , then it is more than likely due to their Failure to Support Themselves for whatever Reason . I do Care about the less Fortunate than me , but I do not Pity them . This is Life .........

reply to post by buddhasystem


You are operating under the assumption that big businesses (aka the mega-corporations and conglomerates) operate under laissez-faire capitalism, in which they do not. Using Congress as a weapon, these companies have used politicians (just as much as politicians have used them) to institute disadvantages into the system. By utilizing legislative powers and regulatory (not sound regulation; in which I am a firm believer in) to make the playing field of their respective markets heavily uneconomical for any new players to be introduced.

In doing so, knowing that a monopoly would never fly with the people, but for some reason people do not care when its only 3-4 at the top, they begin to manipulate the market in their favor by use of cronyism and corporatism, not capitalism.

Capitalism riding on the free-market, which has its basis with understanding that the market not be manipulated by outside forces (which our Government and these companies, in collusion do) and a level playing field for any players wishing to enter a lucrative market or untapped market is what helps create more wealth (not just money) for the widest swath of people.

But alas, for nearly 100 years, we have seen an over manipulative Government with businesses at their side twisting and convolution the game in their favor.

Originally posted by buddhasystem


Well now, the entire nation does not benefit from providing a meal for AN individual, that much is true. It does benefit from preventing some of its own from becoming destitute, hungry and sick in difficult times, which, as you know, are just part of doing business as usual, in our system.

Unfortunately for you, both history and the founding fathers (you know, the people who actually wrote the document) prove you wrong.

The nation doesnt benefit in any manner except emotional feel good stuff from preventing people from becoming "destitute, hungry, or sick".

Prevention of the aforementioned things is NOT a function of government, no matter how much you wish it were true. Luckily the Constitution does not authorize them to do such things, as that would involve a redistribution of wealth, which is a weapon against the idea of personal liberty.

Do you think you know better than the people that actually wrote the document? Do you know their intentions better than they did?

"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." - James Madison, 1792

Pay special attention to the quote below, by James Madison. In case you dont know, he is referred to as the Father of the Constitution

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Should I dissect that quote for you?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Well now, the entire nation does not benefit from providing a meal for AN individual, that much is true. It does benefit from preventing some of its own from becoming destitute, hungry and sick in difficult times, which, as you know, are just part of doing business as usual, in our system.

But see you have the power to provide that meal if you see it as something you wish to do.

If the State laid claim to your wages first and then decided what amount you get afterwards, chances are that amount would never allow an individual to go out and willfully engage in acts of benevolence or grace.

I am with you 100% that turning a blind eye to those in need; just our goals of helping are different. I believe that people are generally good and when placed in a system that allows them to decide how much they wish to accumulate or not accumulate, they will engage in such acts of kindness to help those in need.

If you do not believe in such, just look at donation levels of private citizens of the United States of America. Do you truly believe we would be so generous if we could not accumulate the wealth we wish to receive without the Government decided what we should be making?

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
The nation doesnt benefit in any manner except emotional feel good stuff from preventing people from becoming "destitute, hungry, or sick".

You know what, the bespoke freedoms are also right up this alley -- "emotional feel good", aren't they? Same applies to a whole lot of Amendments to our Constitution. So don't discount being civic -- i.e. civilized and supportive of your fellow citizens -- as something that nature abhors.

Do you think you know better than the people that actually wrote the document? Do you know their intentions better than they did?

What I do think that a dogma and fetish are both unproductive and stupid. As I said on a different occasion, Constitution doesn't tell you to change oil in your car, yet you do it anyhow, and you also (I hope) use toilet paper each time you do number 2. That was never mentioned by Founding Fathers.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Uh, before I posted any more replies, I feel the need to ask:

Are you serious with this crap?

Really?

Of course the Constitution doesn't tell me to do any of those things. Care to know why? Because the Constitution doesnt dictate what people should do, it LIMITS what government can do.

You should really try to educate yourself on a topic before you choose to debate it.

That's what I'm talkin about. Maybe when people become accountable for themselves and theirs the country will gain a fraction of its moral back. Goodbye welfare, goodbye greed, goodbye fed reserve act, good by all war acts resulting from the fdr keeping us suppressed. Hello freedom.


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So have you never received a stimulus bonus on your taxes? Just askin...


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Originally posted by bestof83
So have you never received a stimulus bonus on your taxes? Just askin...

Figured I would just take the time to correct your post.

It isn't a bonus if its YOUR money to begin with.

Originally posted by WakeUpAndC
You so lost i don't think u can be saved. You really think either party has the answers and are going to make this country better? In case you haven't noticed we are circling the drain and its speeding up. I don't mean to sound like a smart ass but do you really think any one up in Washington cares about us?

What he said.. It's really two sides of the same coin =\.

Once enough people realize it though, and decide to take the power back, I'll be here waitin' for ya'!

Your fear is noted, change is scary thing, especially when there has been no change, no hope no nothing. Please explain, as you mentioned about the bailouts, have any of them really worked? After all has anyone, successfully gotten and held onto a job, who was unemployed? Is there a booming job market that is sweeping the nations where the employers are crying for employees, begging and offering a living wage? I traveled here recently across country, passing through 5 states in the process, and funny I did not see any mass numbers of help wanted signs anywhere. I did not hear of any reports where there is a shortage of workers, no reports of unemployment dropping, nothing, yet congress keeps passing the same set of bills, different words, different titles, but it is the same set of bills that do not work, does not help the economy, but hinders it.
You mentioned the healthcare bill, but last time I checked, you could go into any ER and get seen by a doctor. And what is even more funny, is that I moved from a state to another state. I walked into 2 separate hospitals, and care to guess what I saw in the admissions areas? A sliding scale, yes that is right, there is a state where anyone can get seen by a doctor, and get prescription medications, all without having health insurance, all based on a sliding scale. Oh yes, a person would have to provide proof of income, and bills, and where they live, but hey, they can get the medical help that they need, all within financial reach of them, even if they are unemployed and on unemployment insurance.
You mention jobs going overseas, well answer me this, what is the purpose of being in business? Is it to be charitable, or to make money? Don’t know about you, but hey if I was in business, I would be wanting to make money and a profit, and if it is cheaper for me to do business overseas, opening up new markets and making a lot of money, guess what I am. And ultimately who is to blame for the decline of business in the United States of America, the companies sending jobs over to foreign countries, or the American people? Ask yourself this, the last time you bought anything, not food, where was it made and why did you purchase it? I know, my computer was made in a foreign country, why cause it was 300 dollars cheaper than the similar model made right here in the USA.
What this country needs is a party that is going to say NO to just about anything that passes right in front of it to refocus where we need the help right here at home. We need to hear the word no a lot more often and to start doing for ourselves, rather than let someone else do it for us. We do not need another regulation telling us how we should live, nor do we need another bail out or stimulus package to help the economy that is not working. What we do need is a government that is acting in the interests of the country, rewarding success and letting those companies that are going to fail, ultimately let them fail and die, cause how else are you going to get something that will work?

The money you get back is your money to begin with, the stimulus check is suppose to put more money back into the economy. But, technically its all an illusion anyway (the whole money thing) since, its all reserve notes and not actual cash. Anyway, a stimulus is free money... Tax returns are your money.



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Technically, its nobodys money since we've been bankrupt since 1933. But that's just technicality.


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Law is as follows,

We still have a chance as no legislation introduced and passed by The House cannot go directly to POTUS and must stop at The Senate. Also, no major legislation can be introduced by the lower house. The GOP also do not have the requred 2/3 majority to block or implement a fillibuster so to try to overturn anything will be unsuccessful.

Originally posted by bestof83
Technically, its nobodys money since we've been bankrupt since 1933. But that's just technicality.

 

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A little known deal between the US and the House Of Rothschilds-Federal Reserve in 1941 that got us free and clear of debt that we had dating back to 1913 to say we were broke in 1933 is a lie as a panic was created and manipulated to shred the masses apart. A lie and a deception caused the entire system to go haywire. Nowadays they can't use that avenue as it's too well known. We had leverage as around then England was falling to Nazi Germany and needed us to bail them out. We let London burn down to the ground in order to enact leverage. Talk about the America I love, the one with huge cahoonas. Did it lead us back to war with the Brits? No. Cleared 30 years of debts without firing a shot. Perfectly executed plan if you ask me albiet at the expense of London.

Thanks for that info, ill research it later. Any legal acts or defactos on it? Anyway, basically what I was gettin at was the stimulus thing. And there's no denying we are in financial woe today. I was doing searches on the stimulus and individual/ national sovereignty. People deny handouts, but the gov doesn't make it seem like a handout.


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