What are your thoughts on thoughts?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

It is all consciousness. All of it, there are no levels. Oneness.
If Descartes went the whole way he may have had a realization, an awakening.
Only those who have suffered enough would go the whole way. For those there is no other way. The individual has to be willing to die. When coming out the other side, there ceases to be an individual. When there is no individual left, all is seen to be one.
It is then seen that 'I' is not separate. It joins with the whole, making oneness. Not that it was ever separate, that was just an illusion, seen though, a realization or awakening happens.

Simply nonsense...

And blindness of the reality in which people actually live their lives.

The consciousness of the 'thinker' is different than the consciousness of the "self". They are not "one".

The consciousness of a person who is doing a mathematical calculation is different than the consciousness of a person who is listening to the lyrics of a love song or reading poetry. There is no "oneness" there.

The consciousness of a person who is experiencing visual and/or auditory hallucinations--for which he or she must be protected from himself and others by being kept in a psychiatric hospital--is not "one" with the consciousness of a person who has never had such experiences and who holds down a job, has a family and numerous productive relationships with others.

All of these different experiences of consciousness cannot simply be thrown into a "soup" and considered to be "one" consciousness.

And this is similar with regards to what the Buddhists refer to as the "observing consciousness"; or what is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness 'Created by and in the image of God', rather than the 'fallen' consciousness of either the "self" or the 'thinker'.

Mi cha el

If you are at all interested in consciousness, you must check out urban guru cafe. They speak of nothing but consciousness. These ex individuals went the whole way and they tell about it. It`s a great site.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
If you are at all interested in consciousness, you must check out urban guru cafe. They speak of nothing but consciousness. These ex individuals went the whole way and they tell about it. It`s a great site.

Well, since the subject of this thread is "thoughts on thoughts" rather than consciousness, what kind of thoughts do you 'think' there are; and do those thoughts signify anything at all about consciousness?

Mi cha el

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Thoughts appear and then you come along and say i thought that. All this and everything else happens. No one is doing it.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Thoughts appear and then you come along and say i thought that. All this and everything else happens. No one is doing it.

Well, OK, fine.

I agree.

But what kind of thoughts "appear"?

And what do those thoughts indicate about their own origin, if anything?

Mi cha el

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

Thoughts are memory cards for the mind. The thinking process is actually a split-second process - because a 'think' immediately becomes a 'thought' - which is why the thinking process is so hard to define, especially verbally.

I think,therefore I am.

I thought, therefore I was.

Which is why I always ask someone "What are your thoughts?", rather than "What do you think?"

Very well put, or should I say very well thought of

One of my top ten posts LiveForever8, I might add; it's a quote to remember

Without words there could be no thoughts. Words are taught in human society, so we are taught to think in words. Thought may come as an image. However, because of the way people function, we find it almost impossible to see an image and leave it at that, we name everything. Without the word there would be no naming of each and every object. Everything you can name is an object. All that you see, all the things you hear and even feelings you have are all named/labeled. This naming, labelling and then categorizing is from the the home and culture you have grow up in. This is the conditioned mind, programmed. Unfortunately, most are unaware of this. The mind ( which is really only one thought at a time, very slow ) has tied us up with trivial things, thinking for example. The mind should not be held in such high regard, it is your servant and must be put in its proper place.
Thoughts will do what they do, think, and if you just listen to them and don`t join in, they can be very amusing.
The trick is, just listen. Don`t speak back or argue. Just listen.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


All I can say is: It's a jungle out there!!

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Without words there could be no thoughts.

Not as I understand it.

There are images or pictures of reality and relationships which occur before thought. They have information and might be referred to as "visual thoughts".

I distinctly remember being in a high chair as a baby before I could talk and having a very specific visual image of relationships between people.

Words are taught in human society, so we are taught to think in words. Thought may come as an image. However, because of the way people function, we find it almost impossible to see an image and leave it at that, we name everything. Without the word there would be no naming of each and every object. Everything you can name is an object. All that you see, all the things you hear and even feelings you have are all named/labeled. This naming, labelling and then categorizing is from the the home and culture you have grow up in. This is the conditioned mind, programmed. Unfortunately, most are unaware of this. The mind ( which is really only one thought at a time, very slow ) has tied us up with trivial things, thinking for example. The mind should not be held in such high regard, it is your servant and must be put in its proper place.
Thoughts will do what they do, think, and if you just listen to them and don`t join in, they can be very amusing.
The trick is, just listen. Don`t speak back or argue. Just listen.

I don't acknowledge the existence of any 'mind' or 'thinker' or verb "to think".

There are images. There are thoughts in words. And there are different kinds of images and thoughts in words.

Mi cha el

The silence behind the words is what you are. Thoughts obscure this peaceful, blissful, natural beingness that you are. When we are lost in thought, we are lost from what is real, from what is always present. Thought, if allowed, will take you to hell. Here it is always paradise. ' This' is what we miss. Thought thinks it can take you somewhere better, it promises you the world but all it does is take you away from the world. You never arrive using the mind.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The silence behind the words is what you are.

What I really can't understand is why this is given such cosmic importance.

Who cares "what you are" or "what I am"?

Why is this important?

Seriously.

As if what?

The entire world is going to collapse based upon whether I have an 'identity' crisis?

Western philosophy and science places the individual 'thinker' at the very center of the entire creation, almost as if a 'God' of some kind.

Should we then be surprised that this or that nitwit messianic politician or religious 'authority' takes millions of people down the path to genocide, pursuing one religious or secular 'utopia' or another?

Thoughts obscure this peaceful, blissful, natural beingness that you are.

So what?

No offense, but I really don't care.

Really.

When we are lost in thought, we are lost from what is real, from what is always present. Thought, if allowed, will take you to hell.

Of course it will.

But so, too, will extreme narcissism and self-centeredness.

That is NOT an improvement.

Here it is always paradise. ' This' is what we miss. Thought thinks it can take you somewhere better, it promises you the world but all it does is take you away from the world.

So does concentrating upon the "self" and its fantasies as the final determiner of reality.

Mi cha el

reply to post by Michael Cecil


All religions, even the organized religions, are all pointing to the same thing; know thyself. This was the message of Jesus and Buddha. Find the silence within.
However, it seems that humans don`t want peace anymore. They are fed so much hate and violence, they just can`t get enough.

What is wrong with right now? Unless you think about it? The power of thought is a great slave but a useless master! This moment is perfect and you are perfect. You stand right here and right now as perfection. This is paradise, yet the thoughts tell you can do better or that there is better. But it`s a trick. That 'better' is in the future, or somewhere else. Really this is it, there is nothing else. If you miss this moment, you will miss your entire life. Satan is a term used to describe the way thought deceives and tricks us into believing that there is more to be had.
This all leads to a feeling of dissatisfaction. Chasing, searching for the next fix. It is here, you are here.

We don't control our thoughts. All thoughts are originated from somewhere. We are always thinking even if we don't know what we are thinking about i.e. dreams.

Have a look at this small series on youtube:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Mizzijr


Thanks, looks like it may take a while so i'll watch it later and let you know what i think.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

All religions, even the organized religions, are all pointing to the same thing; know thyself. This was the message of Jesus and Buddha. Find the silence within.

The Message of the Buddha and Jesus is one thing; and is as you have stated it, with certain qualifications.

The message of the organized religions, however, is precisely the opposite.

Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' do NOT want people to know that there are previous lives and the revelation of the memories of previous lives. That is why Jesus, and the Gnostics and the Albigensians were murdered in the first place.

On the contrary, they--and the media officials who protect them--have been doing everything they possibly can to PREVENT people from 'knowing themselves' and the Truth about the Revelation and Doctrine of "resurrection".

However, it seems that humans don`t want peace anymore.

Bingo.

But this is due in no SMALL part to the efforts of the religious 'authorities' and media officials to CENSOR and suppress the Truth about the Revelations received by Moses, the prophets (including Daniel), Jesus and Mohammed.

They are fed so much hate and violence, they just can`t get enough.

That, unfortunately, will soon change.

And then, God Willing, they will FINALLY be willing to listen to the Truth.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

All religions, even the organized religions, are all pointing to the same thing; know thyself. This was the message of Jesus and Buddha. Find the silence within.
However, it seems that humans don`t want peace anymore. They are fed so much hate and violence, they just can`t get enough.

Bingo.
Silence is the loudest noise in the universe; a vibration so violent it cancels itself out.
It is the source of all knowledge.

a play off the notion that philosophy is thinking about thoughts. Thoughts are reactions to stimuli and thoughts of thoughts is the awareness of awareness or simply consciousness itself. Two schools of thought argue either thought is completely reactionary and material in nature, and the other school states thoughts are administered by a rational soul outside of body. My take is that the soul is outside of body but acts upon matter. Ultimately, either consciousness is dependent upon the brain and nervous system alone meaning it is mortal, or upon a higher intellective soul, meaning it is immortal and consciousness survives in some way after death. My take is that physical consciousness ends at death but the essence of consciousness lives on since it came from nothing to begin with, death can not be its finality since it was brought to life by some means.

Originally posted by ItisnowagainThis moment is perfect and you are perfect.

There has simply GOT to be something wrong with this statement.

Are you talking to Hitler or Stalin or any one of thousands upon thousands of people who have committed heinous acts of violence or who are preparing to commit such acts of violence in the future?

People are not perfect. I am not perfect. The consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker' is not perfect.

Is there a dimension of consciousness which is beyond duality, conflict, violence and genocide?

Of course there is.

But it is no mean feat to have an experience of that dimension of consciousness.

This is what the Teaching of the Buddha and the Revelations--but not the theologies--of the monotheistic religions are all about.

You stand right here and right now as perfection.

The term "you" has to be defined in terms of consciousness.

The consciousness of the "self"/"not self" and the consciousness of the 'thinker'/'doubter' are dualistic dimensions of consciousness. By their very nature they result in conflict and violence. It is intrinsic to their very nature. They are not in any way "perfect".

This is paradise, yet the thoughts tell you can do better or that there is better. But it`s a trick. That 'better' is in the future, or somewhere else. Really this is it, there is nothing else. If you miss this moment, you will miss your entire life. Satan is a term used to describe the way thought deceives and tricks us into believing that there is more to be had.

No.Satan is not thought.

Thought is a tool of Satan in that it propagates, perpetuates and intensifies duality.

But the origin of that duality is PRIOR to thought in the dualistic "self"/"not self"...

A dimension of consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection.

Mi cha el

The organized religions will let us all believe that we are imperfect and dirty. What if the message Jesus and the Buddha were sharing was that we are perfect and whole right now. Christ is not the surname of Jesus. Christ is christ Consciousness. It's all about consciousness. The message Jesus tried to deliver, but the ptb took over the message , it got lost and manipulated along the way. Then used to make us feel unworthy. Unworthy, scared and easy to control.