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What are your thoughts on thoughts?

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posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
When the presence is felt the self ceases to exist. All there is is this. Separation, duality is where the situation and you appear to be separate. There is no separation until you think it.


Precisely wrong.

And fatally wrong.

My "self" is over here and your "self" is over there. That is not because either one of us 'thinks' that. It is because when each of us 'self-reflects', we 'self-reflect' upon a different 'space' of consciousness, within which there are different nervous systems with different hard-wired, pre-verbal memories. All of this is prior to thought.

There is a dimension of consciousness referred to as the 'thinker'. That is the dimension of thought.

There is another dimension of consciousness referred to as the "self". That is the dimension of emotions, and feelings and awareness of existing.

It is a flagrant contradiction of the plain meaning of words to say that "when the presence is felt the self ceases to exist".

If the "self' ceases to exist there would be no 'feeling' of the presence because there would be nothing to 'feel' that presence.

Similarly, there are different dimensions of thought: 1) thoughts of a 'thinker' , which are found in books on science, politics, theology, etc.; 2) thoughts of a "self", which are found in the lyrics of songs, poetry and literature; 3) thoughts of the "observing consciousness", as found in some of the writings of the Buddhists and, for example, Krishnamurti. And there are other thoughts in addition to these.

Mi cha el



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by KrypticCriminal
 


The more i think about my thoughts, the less i think they are my thoughts. And therefore the less i think about them, the more they become my thoughts.



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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I maybe should have said that, when the presence is experienced, thought ceases. As Descartes said i exist when i think. When i don`t think i do not exist. I am a mere imagination, a made up thing. However, really there are no things. All there is is this. Experience/sensation is what i am, we call it life. Life does not have an opposite. Being is seeing from a non dual space.
edit on 7-11-2010 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I maybe should have said that, when the presence is experienced, thought ceases. As Descartes said i exist when i think. When i don`t think i do not exist. I am a mere imagination, a made up thing. However, really there are no things. All there is is this. Experience/sensation is what i am, we call it life. Life does not have an opposite. Being is seeing from a non dual space.


But this is the crux of the problem.

This is what psychosis is: coming face to face with the annihilation of the 'thinker' and fearing the annihilation of the dimension of consciousness under the 'thinker' called the "self".

The "self" exists prior to and independent of thought. That is why, after radical doubt, Descartes said: "I FEEL as though all of a sudden I have fallen into deep water. I can neither set my foot upon the bottom nor stay on the surface." That is not the thought of any 'thinker'; that is a thought of a "self"; that thought consisting of a "feeling".

This is the fear of annihilation. It is an experience. It is an experience of psychosis. Psychosis is experienced by something. It is not experienced by a "nothing". That something is a "self".

Of course life has an opposite in death; just as the "self" has an opposite in "not self". My "self" is part of your "not self".

That is something that cannot reasonably be denied.

Mi cha el



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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The real you, which some call the Self, does not think. It is beyond and prior to thinking, it is what drives the entire universe. From the smallest particle to each wave in the ocean. The universal intelligence, you and it is all one. You are not in charge any more than the clouds or waves in the ocean are.



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 

I agree, the fear of annihilation is real. What though is really going to die? An idea, an illusion? This mind made self does not want to die? Many sages have said 'one must die to live', is this what they meant? Psychosis? Not sure, lose your mind doesn`t sound acceptable in the world, not safe, they will lock you up. But maybe thinking isn`t that good for you. Maybe, silence is golden.
The opposite of death is birth, they are both of life.

edit on 7-11-2010 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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If you can be convinced that you are a somebody then it will be easy to get you to think that you can own things.
You will be convinced that you should be fighting for your country.
It is not yours.
You are it. All of it. The whole works.


edit on 7-11-2010 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Descartes, did he have psychosis? Did he go the whole way? Or did he turn back in fear?
This is the crux, if you or he were willing to risk it. What then?



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by munq13
 


Whether you think about them or not they're still yours. Your just not aknowleging them thats all.



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Ive heard a lot about what descartes said. Maybe he's controlling your thoughts.



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


What would die is the image which has been not only an illusion but the chair to which we are attached to.
Our consciousness, with all the known which we have learned and experienced.
A buildup arround this illusionary existance in which we have invested.
The emptying of consciousness could be the real incarnation and the dead of the illusionary self.
Leaving us not empty inside but fullfilled with bliss.
No separation, no violence, no more suffering, no negation or self-denial, no need for controll.
Not empty and therefore not nothing but an living being.
Perhaps awake for the first time because living in thought really means living in concepts which are just an image of reality.

So one should be free of fear



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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"Because the thoughts you think you think appear as images before your eyes: you refuse to accept them as nothing."


the quote, taken from "A Course in Miracles", was the initial releasing agent which acted upon my young mind and caused me to begin to see reality for what it really is. it may be necessary to meditate on it for several minutes (if not hours) to fully grasp the meaning, but i assure you that it will give you new insight into the nature of thoughts.


thanks OP!




posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by tgidkp
 


hmmm from a minister training manual. I dont know what to make of that really.

Your probably going to say you need to read it to understand, but why should i take the words in this book seriously. As with the words of descartes who keeps getting mentioned. There other peoples points of view at the end of the day.

Id prefer to come to my own conclusions really. Although hearing other peoples views is part of the whole process i guess. I still maintain that my thoughts are my own and they're what makes me what i am. I have control over them. Even if i may never understand them.

Do you really think we have the brain power we have, just so we can recieve thoughts from elsewhere.
edit on 7/11/10 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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hey man, I think that we are capable of receiving thoughts. Reason why is because today, I was sitting in my car waiting for my dad to get some coffee. Then this thought came across my mind , " My friend Lee has a cold air intake filter that I was suppose to pick up" Then I pulled out my cellphone to check the time, and I notice I had a text message 12 mins ago. Coincidentally the text message was from my friend Lee, the message said " hey man, did you still want that cold air intake filter? " ........

Strange eh? This is not the first time something involving thoughts has occurred.

About 2 years ago, I was at work folding towels, a thought has came to my mind " I was supposed to drop of some items for my friend Matt ". I finished folding the towels, went back to my office, and check my cellphone, I received a txt message from my friend Matt , It said " hey bro, can I get that off you today if your free? " ...

It seems to me that, whatever event you previously witness, or were involved in. That becomes a memory in your mind. Sometime throughout life, those previous memory may arise. What I mean by that is, for example, Your doing something completely different, your mind is set on what your doing, but then suddenly a thought arise in your mind. Whether it arise on your own, Or somebody else thought of you .

Just my 2 cents!! Please comment and tell me if you had a similar story!!! thanks ats!

This thread totally shocked me today because I had a thought "coincident"



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Awarenessiskey
 


Im not saying we dont have the power to recieve or send thoughts. Im saying that the thoughts that i know to be mine, because im the one thinking them. Are mine and havent been sent to me from somewhere. I think you could train your mind to send and recieve these messages. Like ive said before, the true power of the mind is unknown to us at this point. We have an amazing brain, it would be a waste of time if we could'nt use it to formulate our own thoughts. Just use it to recieve thoughts that have been sent to us. As with your example you said you became aware that these thoughts had been sent to you. So you must be able to tell the difference between your thoughts and those sent.

Great story by the way thanks for sharing it. Ive had occations when my mind will suddenly think of a certain friend and then that friend will call or i'll bump in to them somewhere.

The best ones are when i think of a movie i havent seen for ages and then it comes on TV two days later
edit on 7/11/10 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The real you, which some call the Self, does not think. It is beyond and prior to thinking, it is what drives the entire universe. From the smallest particle to each wave in the ocean. The universal intelligence, you and it is all one. You are not in charge any more than the clouds or waves in the ocean are.


All of these words taken together do not really make any sense.

I am not you.

My 'mind' is over here and your 'mind' is over there.

Which is why, when I say "I have not yet made up my 'mind'", I don't have to ask for your opinion.

There is a third dimension of consciousness which is both non-temporal and non-spatial. But that is not any "self" or "Self". It is an "observing consciousness" prior to and beyond any "self".

Mi cha el



posted on Nov, 7 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Descartes, did he have psychosis? Did he go the whole way? Or did he turn back in fear?
This is the crux, if you or he were willing to risk it. What then?


He stepped right to the very edge of psychosis and then stepped backward with the postulation of the thought of the 'thinker'.

The "observing consciousness" is on the other side of that psychosis however or, more accurately, emerges out of that psychosis as a completely new and different dimension of consciousness.

This is what the Jungian analysts are talking about with the individuation process: the collapse of the structures of the "ego" consciousness and the 'integration' of the unconscious with the conscious to form a completely different personal identity.

Mi cha el



posted on Nov, 8 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The real you, which some call the Self, does not think. It is beyond and prior to thinking, it is what drives the entire universe. From the smallest particle to each wave in the ocean. The universal intelligence, you and it is all one. You are not in charge any more than the clouds or waves in the ocean are.


All of these words taken together do not really make any sense.

I am not you.

My 'mind' is over here and your 'mind' is over there.

Which is why, when I say "I have not yet made up my 'mind'", I don't have to ask for your opinion.

There is a third dimension of consciousness which is both non-temporal and non-spatial. But that is not any "self" or "Self". It is an "observing consciousness" prior to and beyond any "self".

Mi cha el


The bit ive underlined is interesting, are you reffering to different levels of conciousness or different kinds of conciousness as in seperate from the conciosness that you always have.
edit on 8/11/10 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by KrypticCriminal
 


It is all consciousness. All of it, there are no levels. Oneness.
If Descartes went the whole way he may have had a realization, an awakening.
Only those who have suffered enough would go the whole way. For those there is no other way. The individual has to be willing to die. When coming out the other side, there ceases to be an individual. When there is no individual left, all is seen to be one.
It is then seen that 'I' is not separate. It joins with the whole, making oneness. Not that it was ever separate, that was just an illusion, seen though, a realization or awakening happens.
.
edit on 8-11-2010 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The real you, which some call the Self, does not think. It is beyond and prior to thinking, it is what drives the entire universe. From the smallest particle to each wave in the ocean. The universal intelligence, you and it is all one. You are not in charge any more than the clouds or waves in the ocean are.


All of these words taken together do not really make any sense.

I am not you.

My 'mind' is over here and your 'mind' is over there.

Which is why, when I say "I have not yet made up my 'mind'", I don't have to ask for your opinion.

There is a third dimension of consciousness which is both non-temporal and non-spatial. But that is not any "self" or "Self". It is an "observing consciousness" prior to and beyond any "self".

Mi cha el


The bit ive underlined is interesting, are you reffering to different levels of conciousness or different kinds of conciousness as in seperate from the conciosness that you always have.
edit on 8/11/10 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)


There are at least three different dimensions of consciousness.

The amount of time spent in each dimension of consciousness differs between people.

Most people have no real experience at all of the third dimension of consciousness that I am referrring to.

Most people have experience and knowledge only of the "self" and the 'thinker'.

Mi cha el




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