What are your thoughts on thoughts?

if the mind stays conscious after death, it will seek out freedom and reject the earthly prison. The eternal mind sees all things as if in an eternal present.

-Consolation of Philosophy

my thoughts on thoughts are that i think we are thinking way to much about our thoughts........i think?

I believe that thoughts are the minds attempts to justify it's existence to itself. But I find it hard to imagine not thinking anything.

Originally posted by fallow the light
my thoughts on thoughts are that i think we are thinking way to much about our thoughts........i think?

But if your not thinking about your thoughts, then who is controlling them while your not thinking about them. Is their something that regulates our thoughts when were simply having them but not noticing them.

Is it possible to control the thoughts?
If you are not controlling them, or they in any way need controlling, can they be yours at all?

If it were possible to control thoughts there would be no need of unhappiness.
Be honest, can you really control thoughts?

The very best we can do with thoughts is watch them. The more we try to change thought the more we resist thought. Resistance is futile.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Well personaly, yes i do believe you can control your thoughts. It may not be easy but you can definatly work on it and gain control of your mind. Once you control your thoughts you control your mind. Once you control your mind you control your body and emotions. Once you control your mind, body and emotions you can liberate yourself from suffering. Then experience true conciousness. Without any influence or hinderance from physical factors.

Before you learn to fully control your thoughts, you have to ask yourself. Who's controlling them at the minute? I think thats where your coming from with, the system and outside influence. As though were kind of running on Auto pilot. Thats why i think its important that you try to understand and control your thoughts better. We may never know what they actualy are, but we can understand there effects. Kind of like Ghosts in that respect.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal

To me, thoughts appear. The same as clouds in the sky appear, there is no control. I can not control when or which clouds appear. I can watch/observe the thoughts/clouds appearing, but i can not make them not come or choose which thought to have.
I am not the thoughts nor do i fear the the thoughts. I am that which experiences the thoughts arising presently.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


Once seen that the mind/thought is not you, the illusion will be seen through. Life happens without all the trouble of thinking about it. Life is sensation appearing as form. It is beautiful. Only thought makes it otherwise.
We live in the garden of Eden, only thought is incapable of feeling. Live in thought, impossible. Feeling, sensation, hearing, seeing is only ever present now, this is aliveness.
Thought will have you chasing that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
You are the gold, turn around and meet the self.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

To me, thoughts appear. The same as clouds in the sky appear, there is no control. I can not control when or which clouds appear. I can watch/observe the thoughts/clouds appearing, but i can not make them not come or choose which thought to have.
I am not the thoughts nor do i fear the the thoughts. I am that which experiences the thoughts arising presently.

What makes you think you have no power over what thoughts appear? If we had no control we would surely be insane would'nt we. Yes you can choose which thoughts you have and how you inteprate those thoughts. Thats how you think of new ideas, or even new things to write on forums like these to use the same basic example.

Once again i feel your down playing the power of thoughts and the control that you have over them. What you describe with clouds sounds more like daydreaming rather than the thinking rationaly. So if you are not your thoughts then what makes you, you?

Originally posted by whatukno
Ill have to think about it and get back to you.

You are assuming both that there is a verb "to think" and that there is a 'thinker'.

But I consider that to be a flagrant violation of Occam's Razor: do not unnecessarily assume multiplicity.

People do not 'think'; and, thus, there is no 'thinker'.

There are merely the thoughts themselves.

Even a PET scan cannot prove that a person is 'thinking'. All it can demonstrate is a neurological correlate of thought.

Then, the question turns to what kind of thoughts there are.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

To me, thoughts appear. The same as clouds in the sky appear, there is no control. I can not control when or which clouds appear. I can watch/observe the thoughts/clouds appearing, but i can not make them not come or choose which thought to have.
I am not the thoughts nor do i fear the the thoughts. I am that which experiences the thoughts arising presently.

What makes you think you have no power over what thoughts appear? If we had no control we would surely be insane would'nt we.

Maybe you would become insane without the ability to control your thoughts because you've never known otherwise, keep in mind there are people who have the greatest of difficulty in controlling their minds. For them, they might be able to keep their mind in check but they cannot control it at will. Be careful with those people or they might make you believe you have no control over your mind either.

Yes you can choose which thoughts you have and how you inteprate those thoughts. Thats how you think of new ideas, or even new things to write on forums like these to use the same basic example.

Once again i feel your down playing the power of thoughts and the control that you have over them. What you describe with clouds sounds more like daydreaming rather than the thinking rationaly. So if you are not your thoughts then what makes you, you?

Anyone can think of clouds because everyone has a memory which they can manipulate into something different. If you are not your thoughts, you are that which interprets stimuli. For example, there is a tree, I observe the tree and memorize it at the same time, then in my mind from memory I make the leaves purple and I draw what I see. In this all I am not my body, it is only a tool just as my mind is, then there is some connection between the two and I'm sure there is some connection to that conection that ends up where I reside. But if I were to go there I wouldn't be here so what's the point.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

To me, thoughts appear. The same as clouds in the sky appear, there is no control. I can not control when or which clouds appear. I can watch/observe the thoughts/clouds appearing, but i can not make them not come or choose which thought to have.
I am not the thoughts nor do i fear the the thoughts. I am that which experiences the thoughts arising presently.

What makes you think you have no power over what thoughts appear? If we had no control we would surely be insane would'nt we.

Maybe you would become insane without the ability to control your thoughts...

If you read the opening passages of the Second Meditation of Descartes, you will realize that this is precisely what happens.

Through radical doubt, he destroyed every belief that he had. And this brought him to the very edge of psychosis and the emergence of the archetypes of the 'unconscious'.

It was specifically the postulation of the thought of the 'thinker' that saved Descartes from psychosis.

And the assumption of a 'thinker' goes hand in hand with the assumption that one can 'control' his or her thoughts.

Such an assumption is no less of an illusion than the illusion of the 'thinker' itself and the verb "to think" itself.

It is the illusion that keeps people from going crazy.

But, as the Buddhists have pointed out, this is still an illusory consciousness; and, moreover, there is another dimension of consciousness which is not illusory; a dimension of consciousness referred to as the "observing consciousness".

Mi cha el

It is insanity to think you have the power to control thought. In fact those that think they can will go insane trying.
Thought controlling thought, but who are you?
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb?
How many are you?

The absence of thought is bliss. The end of suffering is the liberation from self, not liberation of self. The thoughts are a mind made self, an illusion. Thought will never bring about peace. Thought is noise, like static. Find the silent resting place.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The absence of thought is bliss. The end of suffering is the liberation from self, not liberation of self. The thoughts are a mind made self, an illusion. Thought will never bring about peace. Thought is noise, like static. Find the silent resting place.

Careful. Careful.

The absence of thought may very well be bliss. But it is not the end of either the "self" or the duality.

The existence of the "self" is prior to thought. The "self" was not created by thought, but by the 'movement' of self-reflection. Only then did thought intervene.

The "self"--specifically, a psychotic "self"--is what emerged with the ending of thought in the Second Meditation.

The "self" merely reflecting upon itself in the absence of thought is not the ending of the duality.

The 'movement' of self-reflection necessarily results in the creation of "self"/"not self" which is the fundamental duality prior to thought.

Mi cha el

When the presence is felt the self ceases to exist. All there is is this. Separation, duality is where the situation and you appear to be separate. There is no separation until you think it.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Thanks for your concern.

No ones going to make me believe i have no control over my mind don't worry.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is insanity to think you have the power to control thought. In fact those that think they can will go insane trying.
Thought controlling thought, but who are you?
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb?
How many are you?

How is it insane to think you can control thoughts? Yet again i'll ask you, if your not in control of your thoughts, then who am i talking to here? Who's deciding what you write? Who are you?

You'll have to control your thoughts to even consider an answer. You'll have to control your thoughts to write that answer. Unless your sitting typing without even thinking about it.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal

You are right no one can make you believe anything. Mind is not self employed, there a purchaser of thought.
You choose to believe one thought opposed to another, but who is this you? Is the thinker the one that makes the choice to believe or are they just thoughts appearing?
Do 'your' thoughts drive you crazy? Is it not thought that drives us crazy, nagging and complaining, all day long? And when we lay down at night to sleep, do they not torment us?
When you look for where thought appears/arises, really inquire deeply, you will find there is no thinker. Mind is not a physical box full of thoughts. Mind is one thought appearing at a time, presently. Can it be stopped?