Pelosi is goneeee!!!!!!!

Originally posted by abecedarian
You want public assistance, nothing unreasonable in asking you to prove you are a legal citizen.

But we are not merely talking about public assistance here are we? If you are an american citizen you should not have to carry ID around with you everywhere to constantly defend that citizenship. If a police officer stops you walking down the street, he must have a warrant or evidence of your guilt to ask for your ID.

You want the right to vote, nothing unreasonable in asking you to prove you are a legal citizen.

But how does going to vote have to do with walking down the street with your kids minding your own business?

nothing unreasonable in asking you to prove you are a legal citizen.

There are alot of things unreasonable about being harrassed on a daily basis by police officers whether you are walking down to the grocery store or minding your own business on your own property. You should not have to constantly prove your citizenship on a daily basis, which this law allows for. It allows police officers to stop you as many times as they want and require you to present ID. That is unreasonable. Simply "living" your life as an american citizens is not a "privilage", it's a right.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian....
...

Not sure where you live but even in the great Socialist state of California, possession of state issued or otherwise valid ID is a requirement.
There is some leniency granted to students but otherwise having reached the age of 18... good luck without ID.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Go right ahead. Tell us how the Right would "protect" the constitution.

I am sure I understand that the Right likes the 2nd Amendment, and the 10th Amendment because you know, guns and states rights and all, but far as I can see, the Right, hates individual constitutionally protected Rights.

I mean hell, the Arizona law is completely against the 4th Amendment, and the Right loved it. Forcing people to keep their IDs on them at all times.

No problem my friend. Here are the Amendments you think the right wants to destroy, and my take on the right's position on them:

1st Amendment: Protects the freedom of religion, speech, and the press, as well as the right to assemble and petition the government

The right firmly believes in freedom of religion and speech, and the right to assemble. However, the right feels that Christians are actually tolerated less and afforded less freedom than other religions. When a Christian or Jewish person is asked to removed their religious symbols in public schools, but a person practicing Islam is not, the right feels this is wrong. The right believes in freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

Regarding freedom of speech, they are hardcore proponents of this. The right does fear things such as the 'fairness doctrine' though, even though media is dominated by liberals.

3rd Amendment: Prohibits the forced quartering of soldiers

I have no clue where you have ever gotten the idea that the right wants military and martial law in the US. The right is actually absolutely fearful of a military state. The fact that you really think the right believes what you stated shows you have many misconceptions of the right.

4th Amendment: Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause

Your argument about them wanting to do away with this law was pointing out Arizona's SB 1070. The right's contention is that if you are already in the process of committing a crime, or a law enforcement official has reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant, it is constitutional to ask for proof you are here legally. Additionally, the right does think that the founding father's intended the states to be as powerful or more so than the federal govt, and so if the federal govt doesn't police their boarders, they have the right to enforce immigration. The right would like all boarders closed to all illegal immigrants, regardless of race or country of origin.

5th Amendment: Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy

Your example on this one is the birthers, as you call them. As far as that allegation goes, we all know that all sides through allegation about about political opponents without proof of guilt or evidence. That is not about the right or left. Thats about a sad part of human nature that allows many to vilify others without remorse.

As far as this actual amendment goes, the right as huge supporters of it. Again, the right wants a smaller, less intrusive govt, and views this Amendment as key to keeping the federal govt at bay.

6th Amendment: Protects the right to a fair and speedy public trial by jury, including the rights to be notified of the accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel

Your example on this one was those detained in Gitmo. The issue you bring up to the right is a matter of who is afforded this constitutional right. Many on the right contend that those caught in war are criminal combatants and should be handled in military court. The right feels though that those accused of a crime within US borders that are citizens and not involved with a foreign war should be afforded the full rights and protections of the 6th Amendment.

7th Amendment: Provides for the right to trial by jury in certain civil cases, according to common law

You contention here is that the right thinks juries are socialist. I completely disagree. I think what you may be referring to is the right's dislike of tort attorneys and what they view as frivolous lawsuits. In no way does the right want to do away with any juries of any type. What the right does want is tort reform, and limit of civil penalties in some cases. A woman should not be awarded $2.86 million for burning her mouth on hot coffee at McDonald's. I think we would all agree that ambulance chasing attorneys and frivolous lawsuits have gotten out of control.

8th Amendment: Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment

Your example, again was Gitmo. Which at this point should be pointed out that Obama has kept running. Much of this debate comes down to the same thing as the 6th Amendment. I.E. those caught in war not receiving this constitutional right. Anyways, beyond that, the right is somewhat split on this. Some contend that to protect the nation, in extreme situation torture is acceptable. Think Jack Bauer torturing to find the location of a bomb before it goes off.

Many others on the right contend however that torture should never be allowed as many war veterans now on the right were tortured themselves.

9th Amendment: Asserts the existence of unenumerated rights retained by the people

Your comment here was about the right wanting the states to have their rights back. I have no clue how you applied that to this amendment and somehow came to the conclusion the right would want to take rights away from people. They are directly related, and the states NOT having their constitutional rights, have taken rights away from the citizens of the states. The states were intended to have all rights not given to the federal govt. Over time, Federal govt has taken many of these rights. Thats not a theory but a fact. That is the 10th Amendment, which you left out of course.

FROM HERE ON OUT YOU DON'T GO BY AMENDMENT AND JUST SAY THE RIGHT IS STUCK IN THE 1800'S AND THINK THESE AMENDMENTS ARE COMMUNIST PROPOGANDA

11th Amendment: Immunity of states from suits from out-of-state citizens and foreigners not living within the state borders. Lays the foundation for sovereign immunity

Self explanatory.

13th Abolishes slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime

I sincerely hope you aren't saying that the right wants a return to slavery. That would be one of the most ridiculous statements in a long long time. It was the right that lead the charge for an end to slavery my friend.

14th Amendment: Defines citizenship and deals with post–Civil War issues

This Amendment was enacted to deal primarily with granting slaves citizenship and equal protection under the constitution.

As far as any debate about it today, the closest would be concerning illegal immigrants. Many believe that so called 'anchor babies' should not be considered US citizens. That opinion is from some on both the left and right, but more on the right. There is not a consensus opinion on the right for the anchor baby issue yet.

15th Amendment: Prohibits the denial of suffrage based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude

Again, the right lead the suffrage movement and it was the left that stood in the way of it. Fast forward to modern times and the only debate I can think of that you may be referring to in Affirmative Action. With that in mind, the right feels that Affirmative Action itself is racist in nature and gives preferential treatment to people based on race or sex. The right feels that any race or sex denied something purely based on their race or sex violates the 15th amendment. So the right is actually a huge supporter of this Amendment.

16th Allows the federal government to collect income tax

You could be referring to many things here. You may be referring to the movement that contends the federal govt has no right to collect income tax. Or you could be referring to the right wanting to reform the US tax code.

If you are speaking of the movement contending the govt doesn't have a right to collect income taxes, I would say that this movement is so small that the it doesn't blip on the right's radar. The right does believe the govt has the right to collect income taxes. Although many on the right do want to reform the tax code to a flat tax or some variation thereof. That isn't a matter of constitutionality, but what they feel is best for the economy as a whole.

17th Amendment: Allows senators to be directly elected

I have absolutely no clue what problem you think the right has with this amendment. They fully support it.

19th Amendment: Allows for women's suffrage

See above what I wrote about the 15th Amendment...

21st Amendment: Repeals the Eighteenth Amendment

The 18th Amendment made alcohol illegal. I assume you are somehow referring to the right wanting to make alcohol illegal again. If thats what you are saying, then you are categorically wrong.

24th Amendment: Prohibits the revocation of voting rights due to the non-payment of poll taxes

Another one where I have no clue what problem you think the right has with this Amendment.

26th Amendment: Establishes 18 as the national voting age

And yet another one where I have no clue what your contention is here.


You seem to have both an amazing dislike of the right, and a ton of very very inaccurate misconceptions about what the right believes.

Here is something that I think is important for you and the rest of readers to understand. The right wants a small govt that is mostly out of people's lives. They want a free market and low taxes for all. Basically, an non-intruisive govt. The vast majority of the right was very dissatisfied with George Bush as a President because he violated those principals and grew govt dramatically while take many civil liberties away from people. Those things are not views of the right. Hence why so many refused to support Republicans in 2008. With the tea Party movement and the change in platform of the right, the right is returning to its more conservative roots. Not those of Bush.

Instead of assuming things about the right and lobbing insults and accusations, try talking to some. I think you'll find that you see eye to eye or can at least respect the opinions of many more than you think.

Historically the Republicans removed the most important amendment of all. The fist one, Free Speech.

FREE SPEECH ZONES.

Sorry, this ALONE shows that they have a terrible track record for individual freedoms. "You can protest where we say you can protest, at the time we tell you you can protest, for as long as we allow you to protest."

Free speech zones under Bush, it's fun to ignore, but it happened.

Originally posted by neo96
he sure is better than pelosi

its a start man the defeatist attitude is getting old around here.

take a page form the liberal playbook

you can't fight the system head on

infiltrate and change the system from within

Now you know what Obama is doing.

Originally posted by wavemaker

Originally posted by neo96
he sure is better than pelosi

its a start man the defeatist attitude is getting old around here.

take a page form the liberal playbook

you can't fight the system head on

infiltrate and change the system from within

Now you know what Obama is doing.

So you're saying Obama is stealing pages from Pelosi's playbook? We already knew the Dem's were doing that. Funny though how Obama had to infiltrate the Dems.

reply to post by johnny2127


Recent history has proven time and time again that the Right hates individual liberty, and would love to strip everyone of many of their major constitutional protections.

This recent election was a clarion call for the extremist right wingers in America to come out and start stomping (in some cases literally) on the necks of the American people.

You want to point to the 13th Amendment and Lincoln as proof that the Right wouldn't take this away in a heartbeat if they could? Really? The right today HATES Lincoln and thinks that Lincoln was a dictator that trampled all over states rights.

So yes, the right does want the 13th Amendment gone because they do want a return to slave states. They think that it's a state issue and they would love to have the opportunity to buy a slave if they could.

Individual liberty my ass, these are the same people who publicly want to strip every American of their birthright citizenship by removing the 14th Amendment. These are the same people who CHEERED and clapped for joy at waterboarding POWs

These are the people that brought us Free Speech Zones and want to stop the practice of religion by anyone other than Christians.

You can't tell me that the Right is a friend to anyone's constitutional protections except the 2nd Amendment and the 10th.

As far as the Right wanting government out of people's lives, well that's all well and good unless you want an Abortion or are a gay person wanting to marry, then the Right is all about forcing government down their throats. So no, the RIght isn't a friend of liberty, in fact they are the exact opposite of a friend of liberty, these Right wingers today are fascist oligarchs wanting to dominate everyone into a theocracy where their individual civil liberties are stripped from them and frankly I am terrified to be an American for the next two years while I wait to see what evil this Republican Controlled Congress will unleash upon an unsuspecting and duped America.

Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by wavemaker

Originally posted by neo96
he sure is better than pelosi

its a start man the defeatist attitude is getting old around here.

take a page form the liberal playbook

you can't fight the system head on

infiltrate and change the system from within

Now you know what Obama is doing.

So you're saying Obama is stealing pages from Pelosi's playbook? We already knew the Dem's were doing that. Funny though how Obama had to infiltrate the Dems.

Obama is infiltrating the illuminati and put them down. Of course he has to do it slowly.

reply to post by negativenihil


GOOD IDEA!! im gonna do the same!!

Ron Paul speaks the truth, so he probably wont get voted because of the emotion stress of the people he wakes up. They want to stay asleep.

I would like to point out what I feel is the most important part of this dance equation of power,
Although Nancy is gone and John is in, and that means something,
could we all take a moment and remember that no matter who sits as speaker or what affiliation they are,
the one thing that will never change is that WE are still and hopefully always, here as the biggest part of this process.
So we can complain or hope all we want,
or get and stay actively involved in our governance and actually help steer the choices along the way.
Put no hope or salvation into the hands of others blindly, the dumb they did is a sign of the dumb theyll do.
Stay involved.

Originally posted by wavemaker

Obama is infiltrating the illuminati and put them down. Of course he has to do it slowly.

You almost had me convinced... but then you started typing.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Recent history has proven time and time again that the Right hates individual liberty, and would love to strip everyone of many of their major constitutional protections.

This recent election was a clarion call for the extremist right wingers in America to come out and start stomping (in some cases literally) on the necks of the American people.

You want to point to the 13th Amendment and Lincoln as proof that the Right wouldn't take this away in a heartbeat if they could? Really? The right today HATES Lincoln and thinks that Lincoln was a dictator that trampled all over states rights.

So yes, the right does want the 13th Amendment gone because they do want a return to slave states. They think that it's a state issue and they would love to have the opportunity to buy a slave if they could.

Individual liberty my ass, these are the same people who publicly want to strip every American of their birthright citizenship by removing the 14th Amendment. These are the same people who CHEERED and clapped for joy at waterboarding POWs

These are the people that brought us Free Speech Zones and want to stop the practice of religion by anyone other than Christians.

You can't tell me that the Right is a friend to anyone's constitutional protections except the 2nd Amendment and the 10th.

As far as the Right wanting government out of people's lives, well that's all well and good unless you want an Abortion or are a gay person wanting to marry, then the Right is all about forcing government down their throats. So no, the RIght isn't a friend of liberty, in fact they are the exact opposite of a friend of liberty, these Right wingers today are fascist oligarchs wanting to dominate everyone into a theocracy where their individual civil liberties are stripped from them and frankly I am terrified to be an American for the next two years while I wait to see what evil this Republican Controlled Congress will unleash upon an unsuspecting and duped America.

You obviously won't believe me, but you are unbelievably wrong about what the right believes. Your rant against the right and what you think they believe literally comes across as delusional and paranoid. Again, try talking to those on the right buddy. Then again, you sound like you would just call them liars if they didn't say the crap you spewed above.

Again, you are very very very wrong about the right. That sort of misinformed rant is a perfect example of whats wrong with politics in American these days.

reply to post by johnny2127

Johnny, I'd have to say my politics lean conservative but I find it hard to see myself truly represented by our right,
in fact I do think they are all one big happy family of sorts,
the 28th amendment (not written yet) is the one that a true new selfless leader from either party would get behind,
but I dont think we have any selfless leaders anymore, do you?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by EvilBat
sorry for the 1 liner
but can I buy another E and another !

Isn't drug dealing against ATS forum rules?

reply to post by whatukno


I'll say Lincoln was tested and partially failed, but then he didnt have anything to draw from as past experience.
I'm not in total fear over the next few years though, you know as well as I that until the old roots are all weeded and gone not much is going to change in the process we know as US government,

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Johnny, I'd have to say my politics lean conservative but I find it hard to see myself truly represented by our right,
in fact I do think they are all one big happy family of sorts,
the 28th amendment (not written yet) is the one that a true new selfless leader from either party would get behind,
but I dont think we have any selfless leaders anymore, do you?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would say that the Republicans got incredibly lost under Bush and rightful lost the Presidency and Congress because of it. The party is trying to return to its conservative roots, but who knows if they have yet. I would say that much of it will depend on who emerges as the leader of the Republican party. Are they more liberal or libertarian? As of now, I would say both Republicans and Democrats are lost in the wilderness..... and the native animals are getting restless and hungry...

I am of course very happy for you Americans who are now expecting 'CHANGE!'

However, I believe you were expecting CHANGE, and 'Yes We Can' 'last time' and things just got worse and worse and worse...........(Need I say more?)

Is it possible that you slayed the dragon but inherited the Dragon Master?

Let's just see how this new 'speaker' comes along!

Whatever happens, this man is as much a puppet as Ms Pelosi was and will have to OBEY his masters.....or else.

Why do you believe it everytime they scream 'Change' loudly in your ear?

This usually means......hold on people! It's going to be downhill all the way now!

We know this in the UK as we were gifted CHANGE and all we get is lies, lies, lies and things deteriorating!

Now that is what Change means, isn't it?

reply to post by johnny2127


All I know is, today I am making some calls to the Canadian Embassy to try and get status as a Political Refugee before I am thrown in a secret prison and water boarded without a trial and then sold into slavery.

Originally posted by whatukno
I am making some calls to the Canadian Embassy to try and get status as a Political Refugee before I am thrown in a secret prison and water boarded without a trial and then sold into slavery.

A psychiatrist once told me, in person, that Liberals suffer from paranoid schizophrenia to one degree or another. I wonder if thats true?