Man walked on the moon... NOT.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by A TRUE AMERICAN

 

So you cannot provide Soviet images of the Apollo landers?

Why not?

The Soviets were able to track the Apollo capsules from liftoff to the Moon. Where is your evidence that the Moon shots were a hoax?

reply to post by A TRUE AMERICAN


Nice Dodge.

Post the Soviet images of the lunar landers.

I demand it of you.

Your credibility is at stake.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by A TRUE AMERICAN

 

Nice Dodge.

Post the Soviet images of the lunar landers.

I demand it of you.

Your credibility is at stake.

The USSR/Warsaw pact countries were the US/West rivals during the Cold War. The Soviets were the only other country on the planet at the time with the technology to monitor the Apollo programs progress to and from the moon. Had there been even the slightest BS going on they would have exposed it in a gigantic propaganda blitz to prove to the whole world that Communism and their technology was superior to the US/West.

They couldn't expose the US of BS because they knew we did it....

reply to post by bulgogi


OP

Thanks for sharing your opinion on the matter. However, here at ATS we like a little meat /facts on the bone...

reply to post by bulgogi


You are entitled to your personal opinion, but I happen to know one of the men that did walk on the moon. He is was greatly effected by the time he spent there. You are mistaken.

Originally posted by bulgogi
I doubt the U.S. would have sent men to the moon. It's simply stupid. The only purpose of Apollo was to improve the U.S. missile capabilities and to make the American public swallow the big military spending associated with it.

You are about 20 years off with your understanding of the US/West missile technology. Which got a huge boost with the capture of German rocket scientist and equipment. American rocket pioneer Goddard had already laid the ground work. Then later Von Braun and his band of merrymen continued their NAZI research here in the states back in 1945

If they were to lose a man, it would have backfired and the public would have opposed further military spending, which was cleverly disguised as a civilian program spending.

It might help if next time before you blindly spew your ignorance of the well known and documented US space program to do a bit of research into both the Soviets and American space programs. Realize that the US prespace military missile program already had very accurate and advanced technology for the time period which would not lend itself very easily to space flights of the era.

NASA was the civilian branch at the time and very very public. The US made the decision at the time to NOT allow the more exotic military missile and rocket technology to be used. Also research Apollo-1

reply to post by bulgogi


Well, how do you account for the fact that U.S. astronauts brought back more than 800 pounds of Lunar material to Earth? And you can even request specimens for research purposes:

Astromaterials Curation At NASA/JSC

Furthermore, NASA lost three astronauts during a pre-launch test on Apollo 1. But the program continued:

Apollo 1 Accident

NASA sometimes stonewalls in my requests for FOIA requests, but how can so many engineers and scientists working for the Gemini and Apollo programs be duped or keep silent if there was a cover up that the U.S.A. did not send man to the Moon?

Not to hijack this thread but I firmly believe that the official Apollo program went beyond Apollo 17 and the Apollo 18/Soyuz test project. Ask yourself why did the U.S. and U.S.S.R. team up for the Apollo 18/ Soyuz test, even though we were "enemies" at the height of the Cold War? Just to shake hands in outer space? That's an expensive photop wouldn't you say?!

Apollo 18/ Soyuz Test Project

Let me push the edges of the envelope if I may. There was a huge controversy about an alleged Apollo 19 and Apollo 20 missions that went to the Moon to investigate a couple of giant anomalies on the far-side of the Moon. Just do a search on ATS or simply look up the area of the Lutke and Delporte craters on the Lunar and Planetary Institutes website.
I don't really understand what you are trying to elucidate without clear evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by bulgogi
I doubt the U.S. would have sent men to the moon. It's simply stupid. The only purpose of Apollo was to improve the U.S. missile capabilities and to make the American public swallow the big military spending associated with it. If they were to lose a man, it would have backfired and the public would have opposed further military spending, which was cleverly disguised as a civilian program spending.

You argument is flawed. We have lost a total of 14 of our best astronauts in two Space Shuttle incidents. We almost lost the crew of Apollo 13.

Challenger - 1985 - 7 crew members lost.
Columbia - 2003 - 7 crew members lost.

But the Space Shuttle program continues, even though it will be discontinued in 2011. And this is a civilian/public program. I can only imagine what was lost in Black Ops programs involving more sophisticated technology.

Cheers

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by A TRUE AMERICAN

 

Nice Dodge.

Post the Soviet images of the lunar landers.

I demand it of you.

Your credibility is at stake.

The USSR/Warsaw pact countries were the US/West rivals during the Cold War. The Soviets were the only other country on the planet at the time with the technology to monitor the Apollo programs progress to and from the moon. Had there been even the slightest BS going on they would have exposed it in a gigantic propaganda blitz to prove to the whole world that Communism and their technology was superior to the US/West.

They couldn't expose the US of BS because they knew we did it....

reply to post by bulgogi

 

OP

Thanks for sharing your opinion on the matter. However, here at ATS we like a little meat /facts on the bone...

edit on 31-10-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Very good point. This is why their Lunokhod rover program was further developed because their robotic missions were equally successful as our manned moon missions.

reply to post by Kratos40


Your contributions have been spot on, but I'm afraid the "Apollo 19 and 20" story is all stemming from an elaborate hoax. You can see the hoax info, from ATS searches involving "Apollo 20", and related threads. "Mummy alien" maybe, I forget all the details of the hoax. The person who is responsible for it admitted, years ago.

AS TO the "glasnost moment" with USSR, Soyuz and "Apollo 18"....the Apollo hardware was available, as it was slated in the original contract, to fly as the subsequently cancelled (Congressional funding pulled) 18, 19 & 20 J missions (don't know if they ever envisioned a "K" enhancement in the series...).

ONE of the Saturn stacks (just the 1-B, didn't need the full three-stage Saturn V just to get to LEO) flew to Skylab (remember that?) and the CM that returned from that mission is now dubbed "Skylab 4", in 1973...so it pre-dated the Soyuz side-show. It's in the NASM here in D.C.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.nasm.si.edu...

www.nasm.si.edu...

You see, they had them built, and used put them to use, but all in LEO. It is unlikely that it could have gone unnoticed if MORE had been built...not to mention, all the OTHER components, too. Plus, launches aren't exactly secret, they are quite evident. Lunar mission launches from Vandenberg aren't practical (orbital inclination is wrong, and the Earth's rotational velocity assist gets missed out too).

Only other possible "secret" launch facility might have to be in the Pacific, say in a Territory near the Equator....but, again....the components for a full Saturn V stack, and the LM too?? Plus, getting it transported all the way across the Pacific Ocean?? Highly unlikely.


More on the cancelled Apollo missions.

Oh, and that avatar? From that horrible Disney movie, "Black Hole", isn't it?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Nice Dodge.

Post the Soviet images of the lunar landers.

I demand it of you.

Your credibility is at stake.

I think the only one around here whose credibility is at stake is you. "I demand it of you". Geez, and just who are you to be "demanding" anything?

Do you honestly think that the Soviets wouldn't have been screaming their heads off if they knew for a fact that the landings were a fake?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Kratos40

 

Your contributions have been spot on, but I'm afraid the "Apollo 19 and 20" story is all stemming from an elaborate hoax. You can see the hoax info, from ATS searches involving "Apollo 20", and related threads. "Mummy alien" maybe, I forget all the details of the hoax. The person who is responsible for it admitted, years ago.

AS TO the "glasnost moment" with USSR, Soyuz and "Apollo 18"....the Apollo hardware was available, as it was slated in the original contract, to fly as the subsequently cancelled (Congressional funding pulled) 18, 19 & 20 J missions (don't know if they ever envisioned a "K" enhancement in the series...).

ONE of the Saturn stacks (just the 1-B, didn't need the full three-stage Saturn V just to get to LEO) flew to Skylab (remember that?) and the CM that returned from that mission is now dubbed "Skylab 4", in 1973...so it pre-dated the Soyuz side-show. It's in the NASM here in D.C.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.nasm.si.edu...

www.nasm.si.edu...

You see, they had them built, and used put them to use, but all in LEO. It is unlikely that it could have gone unnoticed if MORE had been built...not to mention, all the OTHER components, too. Plus, launches aren't exactly secret, they are quite evident. Lunar mission launches from Vandenberg aren't practical (orbital inclination is wrong, and the Earth's rotational velocity assist gets missed out too).

Only other possible "secret" launch facility might have to be in the Pacific, say in a Territory near the Equator....but, again....the components for a full Saturn V stack, and the LM too?? Plus, getting it transported all the way across the Pacific Ocean?? Highly unlikely.


More on the cancelled Apollo missions.

Oh, and that avatar? From that horrible Disney movie, "Black Hole", isn't it?

edit on 31 October 2010 by weedwhacker because: Link

I see your point. But I would like to mention again that I would not like to hijack this thread because of the dubious nature of the Apollo 19/20 story. You can find my posts in the respective threads and we can discuss it there. It is totally possible to launch a lunar mission from Vandenberg AFB. This how the Clementine Mission in 1994 was conducted. Some people that I have spoken to that live near this area are pretty much desensitized to launches from Vanderberg. But no one seemed to notice. A Saturn V rocket would have gone unnoticed as well.
But I digress. The OP is specifically trolling about the evidence of a manned lunar landings on the Moon. My latest point was to further show that there may have been "off the books" missions to the Moon.
Ah yes, the Black Hole movie fascinated me as a young kid. I use the avatar of Dr. Hans Reinhardt because I have been told I look like him. LOL!

Cheers

reply to post by Kratos40

It is totally possible to launch a lunar mission from Vandenberg AFB. This how the Clementine Mission in 1994 was conducted.

In real estate, the saying is "Location, location, location." For launches, especially if the intent is to loft anything of substance and achieve delta-v to escape orbit, then we have consider the "location", and add----

"Payload, payload, payload." And the limitations therein. For a fully equipped manned Lunar mission.

But no, this doesn't hijack the thread. It is important that good, solid facts are posted, to counter-act the OP premise.......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Kratos40

 

It is totally possible to launch a lunar mission from Vandenberg AFB. This how the Clementine Mission in 1994 was conducted.

In real estate, the saying is "Location, location, location." For launches, especially if the intent is to loft anything of substance and achieve delta-v to escape orbit, then we have consider the "location", and add----

"Payload, payload, payload." And the limitations therein. For a fully equipped manned Lunar mission.

But no, this doesn't hijack the thread. It is important that good, solid facts are posted, to counter-act the OP premise.......

Like I said we can debate this in the proper forums. In terms of "real estate", a secret or non-descriptive man-missioned payload could have been conducted on the West Coast if the Russians shipped the Saturn V components from the Kamchatka Peninsula. But also consider the island of Diego Garcia. The premise of my argument is to prove to the OP that his/her premise is false.
To the OP, here is the farewell to the Apollo 17 Mission:



A Titan IV is more than capable of lifting Space Shuttle payloads into space. Apollo missions included only 3 astronauts. Our current Space Shuttle missions carry more than twice the crew. So smaller launches could have been launched at alternate bases such as Vanderberg AFB. So as a comparison here is an infrastructure analysis of Vanderberg and Kennedy Space Center:

Vanderberg:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2a2a4653b907.jpg[/atsimg]

and here at KSC:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/62056cbe3336.png[/atsimg]

Hmm...quite similar infrastructure if I do say so myself.

I often hear the remark "all scientists said this or that". It can't be farther from the truth. The opinion of one scientist does not reflect the opinion of all scientists. Most probably don't even care to find out the truth. Also, people often tell me they brought back tons and tons of rocks from the moon. How do you even know that all of them came from the moon? I doubt we analyzed them all. Often, scientists are given extremely small samples. The more I talk, the more I hear the same thing over and over again. It's ridiculous.

reply to post by bulgogi


Anyone who told you the astronauts brought back "tons and tons of rock from the Moon" obviously doesn't know what they're talking about. I suggest you find better sources of information before you form an opinion. You are correct, not all the samples have been examined in order to preserve them intact for future research with instruments or techniques that have not yet been developed.

Originally posted by bulgogi
I often hear the remark "all scientists said this or that". It can't be farther from the truth. The opinion of one scientist does not reflect the opinion of all scientists. Most probably don't even care to find out the truth. Also, people often tell me they brought back tons and tons of rocks from the moon. How do you even know that all of them came from the moon? I doubt we analyzed them all. Often, scientists are given extremely small samples. The more I talk, the more I hear the same thing over and over again. It's ridiculous.

Perhaps English is not your first language and this is why we are not quite understanding what you mean? But when you refute the findings of scientific facts in terms of the Apollo program findings, then this is we have to intervene and show you proof.

Can you show any proof to your findings?

Originally posted by bulgogi
The more I talk, the more I hear the same thing over and over again. It's ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more.
The more you talk the more I think it's ridiculous.

When did I refute "the findings of scientific facts"? All I am saying is that they have absolutely no proof at all. They have no direct evidences, all they have are "circumstantial evidences" for a lack of better word.