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Another example of why the Patriot Act is wrong

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posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 01:12 PM
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You are indeed correct! Thank you for the link.




posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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Couldn't releasing information about the detainees hinder other operations we may have on-going? Does anyone have a raw number as to how many detainees there are currently being held in the US on the bassi of the Patriot Act.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
Does anyone have a raw number as to how many detainees there are currently being held in the US on the bassi of the Patriot Act.


One of the provisions of the Patriot Act is that they can make secret arrests (and secret trials). Aresting someone, without telling anyone. So I think numbers would be hard to come by. Remember Bush's 2003 State of the Union address:



All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries, and many others have met a different fate... let's put it this way, they are no longer a problem for the United States and our friends and allies


Um... what happened to them? Executed by a secret police conducting secret trials?



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Where do they hold the secret trials?


I would still like to know how many are US citizens bieng held as terrorists becasue of the Patriot Act I...



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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"The official numbers released from the Department of Justice indicate approximately 500 persons have been charged with immigration violations and have been deported who have been of interest to the 9/11 investigation. Also, approximately 300 individuals have been criminally charged who are of interest to the 9/11 investigation. Of the persons criminally charged, approximately half have either pled guilty or been convicted after trial"

Found the above online in an interview....


That means less than 10 people per state over the course of close to 3 years which means we arrest apporximately 1 terrorsit per state each 3 months. When you break it down like that it does not seem so intrusive. or worthwhile. That makes you wonder why it is really bieng passed...


[edit on 28-6-2004 by esdad71]



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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That means less than 10 people per state over the course of close to 3 years which means we arrest apporximately 1 terrorsit per state each 3 months. When you break it down like that it does not seem so intrusive. or worthwhile. That makes you wonder why it is really bieng passed...


Yea, thats from the 9/11 investigation. There are thousands being held all over the world, granted many of them are from a different country, but there are a lot more from the US than your quote suggests.

We have move passed the war on getting the 9/11 people, we are now in the war on terrorism. Terrorism is so broad that even Bush and Ashcroft themselves have called protestors terrorists in is eyes. They say, you are either with us or against us. That's what it has come down to. And if we start arresting people because they criticize the government then this will be a sad place. We don't even know if its happened yet because they don't release the names.

Does releasing names hinder our operations? I don't understand how it would. Does releasing the name of a convicted felon hinder police operations?



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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Take a look back at the beginning of WWII did intern Japaneese americans and placed German american citizens on the FBI watch list! Why was this done, if not for our own safety as a nation. Call it racist and profiling but it was done with the security of our Nation in mind.
We have at this moment in time individual both foreign and domestic who want do severly cripple our way of life. They don't pursue your ideals or mine and the sooner we round them up the better all of us will be.
You might say those foreign borne now US national are loyal Americans and I say watch out for wolves wraped up in sheep garments. Every nation will have those who become traitors and I feel that many walk amongst us.
I feel the Patriot Act is the best defence for going on the offence. My rights as an American citizen and my well being have remained the same. What's
your problem?



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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My problem is where this will lead and already has. Of course, there are actual terrorists, that's not the problem here. THE PROBLEM IS HOW DO WE KNOW THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY TERRORISTS IF THEY CANNOT GO TO TRIAL?!?!?!?!

The FBI right now is spying on church groups, protests, and other orginazations and forming case files on the people attending. You know why, because the administration believes there is reason to believe these people can be terrorists. How would you like to profiled as such? As more, who stops the arrest of people who are truly innocent? There is nothing stopping the government from knocking down your door right now and taking you to Cuba with noone knowing. How safe does that make you feel?
This is a tool that can be used against anyone the government decides they don't like. Therein lies the problem, anyone coming to close to the truth will be swept away. As well, as I stated above, Bush and Ashcroft consider anyone critizing the government to be a terrorist, they have said this verbatim. What will stop them from taking away these people next?
This is some scary police state legislation, the total affects of which will not be seen for a few years.
Laws are instituted all the time where the implications are not fully seen for some time, like the 14th amendment, 18th, I could go on and on....
And this is one of such.

They're coming for the Muslims, they come for the protestors, they come for the truth-seekers, who will be left to stand up for you when they come after YOU?



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 08:07 AM
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We are we supposed to know if they are terrorists? I don't care. Just keep me and my family safe. I have yet to see one black helicopter or van in my neighborhood kick in any doors and take away a Muslim neighbor that you state we as a country are hunting down. If anything, thePatriot Act gives greater reach for law enforcement to help the war on drugs, crime and corruption in my city and neighborhood.

Now, as far as profiling, sorry, but get over it.. It was not a plane of of WASP's or Catholics that took out the WTC. If you getting on a plane with a Arab who was sweating real heavy and looked nervous or a middle-aged Kerry Look-alike, can you honetsly say you wouldn't be nervous? If you said it would not bother you, great. Take my seat....

AS far as not bieng able to criticize the goverment or they will take you away in this current and upcoming Police State??? Micheal Moores still around, right.....



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by esdad71
AS far as not bieng able to criticize the goverment or they will take you away in this current and upcoming Police State??? Micheal Moores still around, right.....


Yes, but that's because the Patriot Act has only begun to take effect. For it to spread across the Globe, one of two things need to happen:

1. Get more civilians to join the military or government

2. Pass Patriot Act 2 and really scrare the pants off everybody



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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If Patriot Act 2 passes i would SERIOUSLY wanna get the hell outta this country. Patriot Act 1 tore apart the Constitution...hell, if a neighbor gets taken away for some sort of terrorism...and you tell somebody...YOU also get classified as a terrorist. Its just insane...



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Now, as far as profiling, sorry, but get over it.. It was not a plane of of WASP's or Catholics that took out the WTC. If you getting on a plane with a Arab who was sweating real heavy and looked nervous or a middle-aged Kerry Look-alike, can you honetsly say you wouldn't be nervous? If you said it would not bother you, great. Take my seat....


quite true.. it was plane full of saudis. and what does the administration do? invade iraq! the patriot act might make me feel safer in the hands of a different administration, but given the other actions it has taken in its so-called 'global war on terror' it does not. like our armed forces, the patriot is an effective tool which, sadly, the bush admin has no idea how to use properly.

even new york city has voted to censure the patriot act:
www.washingtonpost.com... me=article&contentId=A13970-2004Feb4¬Found=true

-koji K.



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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It seems to me to be a rewriting of the Constitution, not just tearing it apart.


E_T

posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn


Terrorism is so broad that even Bush and Ashcroft themselves have called protestors terrorists in is eyes. They say, you are either with us or against us. That's what it has come down to. And if we start arresting people because they criticize the government then this will be a sad place.

Homeland Security Act and Patriotic Act are Bush&Co's own version of NighWatch in Babylon 5. (there's so much similarities and Bush might be B5 fan)



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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*sigh* Well, now that I don't "agree" with what the government is doing, I might as well be considered a terrorist too. As Ashcroft said "You're either with us, or against us."



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
I'd like to think that the goverment does some research and investigating before actually charging someone for that kind of crime. Someone has to be convinced to approve the detaining of a suspect.


You're kidding right?

Funny how quickly people forget why we created this nation in the first place. Answer (if your still wondering) so this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. If you give these people this kind of power they will abuse it, just like they did in the past. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes of the past not repeat them.



[edit on 27-9-2004 by outsider]



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by outsider

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I'd like to think that the goverment does some research and investigating before actually charging someone for that kind of crime. Someone has to be convinced to approve the detaining of a suspect.


You're kidding right?


No. Sadly enough, he's not.



Funny how quickly people forget why we created this nation in the first place. Answer (if your still wondering) so this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. If you give these people this kind of power they will abuse it, just like they did in the past. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes of the past not repeat them.
[edit on 27-9-2004 by outsider]


I agree. And that's exactly what they're doing. These people are abusing the powers that are given to them and more. The U.S. government doesn't care abous anymore.



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