Orange,
The UN has made many mistakes, lets not turn this into a UN debate shall we?

No problem DW...thanks for reminding me. I just bristle when I hear about the "UN".

Back on topic..I have been carrying my Colt Government .45 ACP concealed for a couple of weeks now...with two spare magazines. Next week I will switch to my .357 revolver with speed loaders. The Colt is much heavier than my revolver but I am a machinist often using a 40 ounce hammer on my job so the weight is ok with me.
I like my Colt..but with reloading ..I often prefer my revolvers...as they dont eject brass all over the range...makes clean up a snap with revolvers.
I bought a .45 ACP revolver which uses the moon clips..and it is very accurate. Very nice shooter and takes care of the ejection problem of cleaning up the brass.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Well there was several reasons for getting rid of it. One it was rather getting long in the tooth. The youngest were made during WWII and after years of service life and repairs it was getting to the point where they couldn't fix them any more. So if we are going to spend all this money on new pistols might as well get a new design. Then there was the commonality with the rest of NATO who uses the 9mm round. Finally its a lot easier to train someone using a 9mm than it is with a 45acp. BTW the Beretta has been supplmented in service by the Sig Sauer 228.

PS you have the dubious honor of my first post here

I still think a well placed 9mm shot is just as effective as a .45 "somewhere in the torso" shot. Not to mention that I could easily get off three well placed shots in the time it takes to recover from a .45.

As I said before, it's a matter of usage. If I were military or L.E. I would choose a larger caliber. As it is now I have to conceal when I carry. A .45 is not easy to conceal on a thin man... Thus, I carry a "9". This requires me to place my shots precicely. 9mm and .380 work pretty well for me at the 25 yard and shorter range. I can consistantly hit within a 3" circle both moving and static at 15 yards.

I can guarantee that I could never acheive the same results with a .45.

Originally posted by Fry2
I I can consistantly hit within a 3" circle both moving and static at 15 yards.

I can guarantee that I could never acheive the same results with a .45.

Why not?

I can. But at 10 yards. Most pistols are used at point-blank range a few feet at most. I use the Point method and at 10 yards or less it works like a charm. I carry the 45 and have for all my life and wouldnt trade it for a barrel of 9mms

It's all a matter of opinion. Not all people can handle a 45 like Amuk.
I know as far as myself I shoot crappy as hell with a 45. But with a 9mm Beretta I got 192/200 on the DoS course. For the military alot who are young and shooting for the first time a "9" is definately better for beginners and especially women and small dudes.

Originally posted by SportyMB
It's all a matter of opinion.

I agree.

Its better to have a gun you can handle then one you cant no matter WHAT the caliber. Like I said I have shot the .45 for almost 50 years so I have a LOT of experience with them

Like I said I have shot the .45 for almost 50 years

Holy crap man....50 years...that's along time. I thought you were like
in your 30's or something. No wonder you like the 45..you're old school
as ever

Hard to believe that this discussion has gone on for seven pages and Taylor KO values have not been brought up to
resolve it. And Amuk even overlooked this. Well, I dont plan to make the solution easy for you, its more fun to figure
this one out on your own. I will just say that I enjoy shooting both the 45 and the 9mm. While I like the looks of
the Beretta, I find the Glock or the Ruger P85 are more natural pointers in 9 double mike. In the 1911 style, my
preference is for the Colt Combat Elite 45.


Other points to consider :

Bullet velocity in a pistol is probably more dependant on barrell length than any other factor. All automatics are
somewhat lacking in that department. Pistol powders are either fast burning or faster burning. You dont have
the burn rate choices that rifle cases do. And factory ammo, also most military ammo is "downloaded" so that
the worst clunker on the market wont blow up and result in legal difficulties. SMG loads for both the 9 and the
45 should be avoided in automatic pistols. To get that velocity out of that small case (either) requires a compressed
powder load, which is similar to factory blue dot proof test loads. These loads are for SMG's which tend to have
11 inch barrells (allows the charge to burn in the barrell, behind the bullet instead of outside the barrell making
a brighter flash and backed up by really beefy bolts) Prove it for yourself. Take your favorite pistol and beg or
borrow a cronograph and clock your typical loads. I guarantee you will be dissappointed.


Finally, there is the head-space issue. Depending on design, many automatics out there soon start to head-space
the recoil of the round on the extractor instead of the slide base. Some of the 9 mm's have not so beefy extractors,
which aint good. Over the life of the gun, the hammer forging of the slide base is the cause. If you are a heavy
shooter, and like beefy rounds, and reload (about the only way to get beefy rounds), then the wheel gun wins
because there is no extractor issue. You will wear out the forcing cone instead. If you want rounds to
actually cronograph up to the velocities implied earlier in this discussion, do so safely. Ruger's, the Thompson Center,
and Freedom Arms are the pistol makers I would recommend for beefy rounds. There are others but I have long term
experiance hot-loading for these with safety.


Practice a lot. Know the firearm well and never loose your respect for it. It is ALWAYS loaded even when its not.
I think many have addressed the accuracy arguement. If you cant hit with the gun, then here is your advise.

A good workman never blaims his tools; he learns to use what he has well or he isnt that good.

Bravo...Bravo..well said..i concur. I reload alot for my .45 Colt. agree totally ..expecially about knowing your tools.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Thank you OT.

"I reload alot for my .45 Colt. " == OT

You mean Long Colt I presume, rather than the ACP ?

Ahhh...my apologies ..by .45 colt I meant ACP Colt Government.

I have however been watching and reading about the .45 Long Colt and looking it up in the reloading tables. 250 grains is a heavy bullet as compared to the 230 grains of the .45 ACP.
I have been reading alot of articles on Cowboy action shooting. I really like the concept of a standard rifle/pistol ammunition.
I own a Rossi lever action in .357/.38 caliber. It is a handy combination. Mostly I shoot .38 caliber shells out of it just knocking around at the range. My friend owns a .44 magnum Marlin rifle and a Ruger pistol combination for hunting. The .45 Colt in pistol and now rifle looks promising too. With careful reloading..it looks like this cartridge has alot of potential. Especially with the new host of powders out in the last 15 years. Bullets too. Cowboy Action shooting seems to have brought about a resurging intrest in the .45 Long Colt as well as alot of other olde cartridges.... .38-55,.44-40, etc etc. I think this is great.

Thanks ,
Orangetom