No, I don't think we created a new babilon, Iraq, will never be democratic, at least no on this generation, and for the new goverment, well it you like betting (with not money:lol I bet is not going to last a month before it gets blown out by the militant groups.

No, it is not a creation of Babylon.
We didnt create Iraq today, this was just transfer of power, nothing more.

Looking for prophecy in the bible is like looking for hard shapes in a Monet painting of waterlillies, they're just not there.

I highly doubt the end of the world is comming, as it has been in much worse trouble before. The Cuban Missile Crisis could have ended the world, WW2 could have ended the world and guess what it didn't happen.

All that we are seeing now is the begining of America's decline from status of lone superpower. Iraq is no more New Babylon than America is, they're just countries.

As I have said before, it's becoming more widely believed now that Revelation was written by a Pauline Christian as a rant agaist other Christians and the Romans. There's also some evidence that Revelation's author (some random guy named John that appears nowhere else in the bible) wasn't quite sane.

Sorry to all you Christian Fundamentalists, but the seccond comming of Christ is not happening now. The books are vague enough that they could happen in almost any other time period, today is no different. You're going to live, and you're going to die, probably without experencing the Christian God comming to earth. Put down the "Left Behind" series and lets start dealing with the real problems in the world like hunger, war, hatred and bigotry then once those are solved let's play what if.

Blessed Be
~Astral

your an idiot... John is the apostle. Ever heard of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John!

Ryanp5555,

I know a lot of people named John...I'm willing to bet it was common
back in the biblical periods as well.
I could be wrong but I think thats what "Astral City" meant
by that.
As far as I know, Revelations, could have been written by "some random guy named John"

Also:

"Do UNTO Others"

Isnt the new babylon as talked about in the bible destroyed in a hour in the bible? Its been over a hour

Yes, I did mean that John was a common name. And no, the John that wrote Revelation was NOT John the Apostle, he was nowhere near where the book was written and had no knowledge of the Church of Philadelpha. The book of Revelation was written in a cave on an island in the Mediterranian. It was also not John the Baptist, he was also dead at the time.

The John that wrote Revelation was not any of the other biblical Johns, but instead an early follower of Pauline Christianity and as such would probably have disagreed with John the Apostle and John the Baptist on several points of the scripture.

Anyways this is well doccumented and can be found in many books and even some television specials on channels like Discovery and History on American and Canadian cable television.

By the way my friend on ATS it is bad form to resort to name calling.


Blessed Be
~Astral

[edit on 28-6-2004 by The Astral City]

i apologize for the name calling. i always assumed it was John the apostle cuz they make it sound like he knew John in revelations. Eitherway, I'm sorry, i feel like an idiot, but i still believe revelations

It's cool man, happens to everyone.

And I should apologize too, I was a little too harsh on the Christians out there, Revelation is a book believed by many to be the word of god, and I should respect that.

I'd just ask that Christianity not be forced upon people. If you believe that we are living in the "End Times" well then I have no problems with you making your own spiritual preparations, by all means please follow your heart.

What I am worried about is the whole world consuming war and plagues part. As a non-Christian I would rather that not happen, suffering is always something to be avoided in my book.

Anyways, I still hope that peace can prevail without the bloodshed.

May Peace Travel With You

Blessed Be
~Astral

may peace also travel with you too. But if this revelations stuff is correct, just don't listen to anyone if tons of people disappear, instead repent, and convert to christianity and you shall not be harmed by these plagues, for God rewards all those that truley love him.

I know it isn't very relevant or meaningful, but while looking at those links it just seemed to scream that Bush is the antichrist. Look at this little quotage of one site, presumably quoted from Revelations.

). This other one (horn), the Antichrist, who will come to power after the consolidation of the ten nation empire, will take control of the ten nation empire by subduing three of them. But which nation will he, the Antichist himself, come from? Daniel, chapter eight, reveals this mystery. But first, a hint while we're still in chapter seven: "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time" (Daniel 7:12 NASB). Interestingly, these kingdoms will again play a role at "an appointed period of time" in the future.


Bush comes to power after the EU really starts to form. He then ends up subduing France, Germany, and England. The rest of the beasts? Left over from the Ancient Empires, as earlier realised. These would reside mainly in the Middle East, and their dominion has been taken away, but an extension of life has been granted to them by Bush. I wouldn't be amazed if they played a significant role in the future.


Someone else said that finding prophecy in the bible is impossible - Nah, it's way too easy. It's like finding 'patterns' in Pi. Look at it, how many times do you see numbers that go 676 or 343 or 565 or 121? They're EVERYWHERE! Does that hold significance? No. Is that the 'pattern'? Not at all! Is that interesting to think on a bit? Yes!

America is babylon. Thats if you believe in God and his word, also if you believe this is the end of the age and you try to apply the parameters to a nation it can only be America.

War on Terror and fighting in Mid East, where will it end? What about Damascus?? Bible says it will no longer be a city but rubble. It is a higher likelyhood now with America in Mid East???

Damascus could easily be reduced to rubble at some point in the future, all it would take is one Israeli nuke. Syria and Israel could easily get into a conflict if one of the two countries becomes just a bit more extremeist than they are today.

I still don't think this is the end of the earth, and even if I'm wrong and it is, I highly doubt that it will follow the pre-Augustine idea of the end that has been made popular by books like the "Left Behind" series and the fundamentalist Christian movement. That idea is very very old and is a throwback to the Middle Ages, theology and understanding of the scripture has come a long way since then.

The Catholic Church says this is not the end, and out of all of the myriad of Christian denoms I listen to their theology the most. After they were the first and largest, and have the most theologans.


Blessed Be And May The Goddess Protect Us
~Astral

as i have heard in the bible... the catholic church is supposed to lead us astray. And as Jesus says, only the father knows when the time is upon us.