Has ATS Forgotten That Right Vs. Left Is A False Paradigm?

Afternoon ATS.

I've reading and replying to various threads over the last few months and noticed a sharp increase in partisan bickering among our members. Myself included.

Maybe it's because it's election time, maybe it's the media's fault. Hell maybe it's cause 2012 is that much closer to not happening.

Have you all forgotten that this Right Vs. Left crap is just a ruse to set each other against one another to in order to keep us occupied? Why are we all falling prey to this plan that keeps the well greased wheels of the PTB in motion?

When will people realize that the only solution is to come together against a common threat? Has history thought us anything?

We are part of a community that can affect millions of people's opinions and provide them with information that they won't find anywhere else. Why are we making ourselves look like children in a sand box who talk a lot of smack but really don't have anything to back it up?

There's no reason for all this fighting over non issus. Liberals vs Conservatives, Atheists vs Religious, Gay vs Straight I mean the list goes on and on.

So I just wanna ask a simply question. Why are "we" the self professed awakened group of conspiracy theorists acting like the rest of the world we come here to get away from?

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


i am a partisan i will not lie but i was made this way

in my opinion the left represents true evil in this country and i will never yield to it

but it goes beyond that to me the left seeks to increase governmental control over my life and yours

and thats why i fight if the situation was reversed i would be fighting the right winger with every ounce of breath i have.

i fight those who seek absolute authoritarian totalitarian rule that is my enemy and thats who i fight

and right now its coming from the left the left is the party of big government and government knows best you simply do not.

i am what i am and i was made this way the powers that be seeks to set one another against each other.

united we stand divided we fall and if you just sit idley by you become a victim either way.

i am partisan i am apart from the agenda of the left and i will always be this way but i am still american

respect my views and i will respect yours.

reply to post by neo96


I must admit I am a bit dismayed by your response. Not that I do not respect your views or your beliefs, I certainly do. But that you would actively choose to be part of the problem knowing full well that your actions or rhetoric serve no purpose other than to assist the PTB.

We must be the change we want to see.

I also did not create this thread so that partisan bickering could commence about either the left or right, I would encourage future posts to not including political trolling.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower




You touched on some great points. Is not the "2 Party System" but 2 sides of the same coin? Divide and Conquer... get the people to separate from their fellow man by ideas of polarization in every aspect of societal matters.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You touched on some great points. Is not the "2 Party System" but 2 sides of the same coin? Divide and Conquer... get the people to separate from their fellow man by ideas of polarization in every aspect of societal matters.

Thank you!

And yes, that is exactly the point. Keep us bickering at ourselves while the masters quietly set their plans into motion. Did you see he "terror" attack today? Just another political ruse.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


nah man i didnt choose to be this way but i will just not sit by and do nothing

i am not going to simply stand by and be dominated by others who think i should be towing the line

of what they want.

i absolutely agree partisan solves nothing but what am i to do?


you think that was trolling? what are the leading reasons to the left right pardigm i was speaking to the ideology behind our views.

we have two opposing views one seeks to dominate the other so again in your opinion what should i be doing?

reply to post by neo96


The trolling was in reference to you attacking the left in your reply which had nothing to do with my OP.

You might not even notice you did it. Part of the problem.

What are you suppose to do? Identify the bad behavior and correct it. There will always be partisan bickering among people. The exchange of ideas in healthy debate is the only way to move things along.

However it's up to us to identify when we are opposing the other side simply because we don't like them or their beliefs. There are hundreds of issues in regards to human rights, civil rights, spending and government that we could solve almost overnight if people were willing to work together and compromise.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


ok so lets switch up the labels for arguement sake lets take your thread for example

you are now the government and your are seeking to "impose" what you want on to me

and what was my reaction i didn't follow the goal that you wanted to be played out in this thread

there's nothing wrong with your goals here but you just faced what government always will opposition

and you became "dismayed" with my initial post because you like government knows best for me.

i am not saying your anything like government you wanted an enlightened debate and i commend you on that

but its not so easy with two opposing views clash this is the left right paradigm on its most basic levels

change the names the results are the same or i just ranted and didn't make one bit of sense.

people like and want free will the simply do not like to be dominated and i am not saying that was your intentions your goal is noble rise about all the pettiness that is politics but its just not so easy for some people.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


This is what TPTB have always done to keep the masses occupied--to keep them from asking too many significant questions and thinking too hard about who and what they are. It has always been this way, so it isn't surprising that this divisive tendency would creep its way into ATS as it becomes more popular.

So let them go on bickering about nothing of any substance. It's a minor nuisance, nothing more. Some will eventually realize the futility of participating in such malarkey and wake up, some won't. But each person has to wake up individually, on their own. You won't be able to open their eyes by attempting to convince them through argument. Arguing with someone often solidifies that person's position rather than changing any minds. I would avoid it, especially any argument wherein the participants are attempting to present the false paradigm as legitimate, entirely if possible. Simply let them know they're all full of it and move on. Don't get sucked into it.

All we can do is call it like we see it, present the ideas, and let them make up their own minds. If they choose to continue wasting their time and potential legitimizing the tyranny we're living under, well, they'll find out the truth eventually--when they're tied up on the ground with boots to their heads.

People need to wake up, and fast, to prevent that from happening.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The only way to stop the power from whatever perceived left or right, is to remove the power from the government.

Now, I have had arguments here on ATS with folks that define the left and right differently.

To me, left stands for power of government, the right stands for power of the individual.
It has been defined this way for centuries. Totalitarianism vs Anarchism.

Now people attempt to define this argument as wrong, using the created false left/right as defined as Socialism/Fascism.

All forms of government power, be it Socialism, Fascism, Communism, etc are on the left. This is the economic component of the discussion. You also have the social component.

This is where the problem occurs. Those that fall for the false Left/Right are as bad as those that you are calling out. Are you a believer in the false Left/Right.

Do you actually believe that government, can institute controls on the economic or social only? Do you believe that if only the government regulates a little more, that economic justice will exist for all? Do you believe that if government only regulates your social freedoms, that morality will prevail?

OP, when talking or discussing what you perceive as the the Left/Right paradigm, you should maybe define what you mean by it.

To me, there is a two headed hydra known as the Democrat and Republican parties. I do not actually believe in many people's definition of the Left/Right paradigm.

Our system of government in the US, was created to do one thing and one thing only. To protect us not from ourselves, but from outside forces. Show me a part of the Constitution that specifically laid out ANY social justice or economic justice. I dare you to show me one.

We were meant to be a society based upon one Golden rule, Do no harm to another and do not infringe on another's rights of Life, Liberty or Property. That is pretty much it. It laid out the ways to do this very thing. No, it did not include parts to enforce some PERCEIVED inequalities. It was created to protect against ACTUAL crimes against the basic tenet of individual freedom and responsibility.

The number one problem that faces us, is not social, it is economic. The government was supposed to protect our ability to have a sound and stable currency. That is the number one issue of today.

As Baron M.A. Rothschild said "Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws."

The left and right are not to be brushed off as a false paradigm. Instead they are to exposed to the fullest because the are the greatest dangers and tools of mass-control humanity faces today.

Expose the religious intolerant and the military interventionist who has hijacked the Republican Party. Teach the children the true beauty of Republicanism and Ethical Capitalism.

Expose the whining and hate-ridden collectivist and pseudo-intellectual who has hijacked the Democratic Party. Teach the children the true beauty of Democracy and Community.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I agree there is a Left/Right paradigm.

But there is also the false Left/Right created to put us in boxes. What I mean by false Left/Right, is the fallacy that the government can actually contain itself in the social or the economic regulations.

The Dems want to create regulations that supposedly help in the inequalities of economics and also are war mongers.

The Repubs want to create regulations that supposedly enforce moral code and also are war mongers.

You get one, they institute economic controls the other social controls. We get hit twice and nothing ever gets repealed.

But, the more I think about it, the more the lines between the two blur. It is almost like they are one and our vision has become blurry so they look like two.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Actually I've see the sentence "right/left paradigm" used 3,528 times today on the board, just slightly less than "blue/red pill" and "divide and conquer" but more than "problem>reaction>solution."

We need to drop the paradigm paradigm ...

There, I said it!

Um...for the most part,yeah.

Um...for the most part,yeah.

Um...for the most part,it seems most have,yeah.

(my answer to the title of the thread)

Red and Blue blend into purple...

I have come to the point that I believe those who still buy into the right/left scam deserve to get screwed by both parties.Many people know there is no real difference between the two but are to blinded by the belief that we have the "greatest form of government in the world."that to admit that both parties pursue the same agenda no matter who is in the white house and in congress would be too much to face.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower

But, the more I think about it, the more the lines between the two blur. It is almost like they are one and our vision has become blurry so they look like two.

Whatever the case may be, the left and right in America are entirely Authoritarian. Free people, on the other hand, are Libertarian. This could be visualized as left/right being two sides of a Pyramid but neither being at the top.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

ok so lets switch up the labels for arguement sake lets take your thread for example

you are now the government and your are seeking to "impose" what you want on to me

and what was my reaction i didn't follow the goal that you wanted to be played out in this thread

there's nothing wrong with your goals here but you just faced what government always will opposition

and you became "dismayed" with my initial post because you like government knows best for me.

i am not saying your anything like government you wanted an enlightened debate and i commend you on that

but its not so easy with two opposing views clash this is the left right paradigm on its most basic levels

change the names the results are the same or i just ranted and didn't make one bit of sense.

people like and want free will the simply do not like to be dominated and i am not saying that was your intentions your goal is noble rise about all the pettiness that is politics but its just not so easy for some people.

edit on 29-10-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure that I'm understanding you properly, but you seem to be attacking the left - so the implication is that you support the right.

The point in the OP is that left/right are an illusion, a smoke screen created by TPTB to keep people divided, and that if we want to overcome their monopoly on power we need to stop falling for this duplicity.

I am still not sure whether you agree or disagree with that?

Originally posted by mike dangerously
I have come to the point that I believe those who still buy into the right/left scam deserve to get screwed by both parties.Many people know there is no real difference between the two but are to blinded by the belief that we have the "greatest form of government in the world."that to admit that both parties pursue the same agenda no matter who is in the white house and in congress would be too much to face.

IMO anyone who votes GOP or DNC will have innocent blood staining their souls...

Casting a vote for either party is no better than 1930s Germans who voted Nazi.. those who do vote GOP or DNC should expect the same result as Germany got: more war.. new boss same as the old boss, NWO party leaders getting their way.

reply to post by GovtFlu


Well than who do you vote for? No one?

So what you are saying, is that no matter what anyone does, they are all responsible for what the government does in their name.

Can ANYONE name me a movement that is calling for smaller government? Less intervention in other country's affairs. Just wondering if there is a movement for such a thing. I am sure I heard something about one, it is just right there on the tip of my tongue.

reply to post by wcitizen


no i dont agree with the left right are an illusion perpretated on us all

i think of this entire issue as you and me

there are groups created that seek to impose what they want us all to think and do and take

i knows whats best for me and i dont think you do and the bickering goes from there.

my take is politics is the id taking over rational thought to a extent then ego takes it from there and the super ego shoves the belief system down each others throats.

left right is no illusion ideology based on the id and the ego and the super ego has no limits but what puts those limits into check is the opposite belief system to me politics is the very embodiment of the human psyche.


or i am rambling agian and know not what i am talking about.