Oozyism:

I'm sorry if anything in my OP led you to believe that a place I visit must be "western-like" in order for me to feel comfortable. I certainly didn't mean to intend that, nor do I feel that way.

As someone who travels internationally for a living, I feel I have an open mind and truly enjoy the cultures I visit for what they are.

My descriptions were aimed at Americans---and my hope to dispel preconceived notions. The points I brought up were those I felt would interest those who haven't visited Islamic countries.

But thank you for making your point. It was well taken. Made me think and make sure my thinking was "right" thought.

All is good in Islam until you try to have a beer on the beach in your bikini

Why must a religion deny such simple life pleasures?

Nick X,

No one is trying to say that everything that happens in an Islamic country feels comfortable or "normal" to Americans. And the repression that you speak of doesn't really gell with my line of thinking either.

But as a traveler, I have learned not to compare each culture with my own experience and see each country for what it is---- a unique place on the map that came by its culture through its own journey through history--the explorers. conquerers, religions and geographic anomolies and charecteristics that have made it what it is today.

A really good book to read is "Guns, Germs and Steel" which explores why some countries and areas of the world seemed to evolve to modern standards and others haven't. The answer, of course, is in the title----because todays modern countries were able to access all of the three---guns, germs and steel.

Africa, by default, should be the most modern continent in the world, as it seems the first people were "born" there, if you pay any attention to modern evolutionary theory. But old has nothing to do with it. Nope. The winners of the "most modern" countries must give their credit to "guns, germs and steel....."

Cheers...

Hey remember the LAW of ONE....there is no god, that goes for all religions, we are all part of the same particles(energy) that was released after the big bang...please stop this religion crap...the VATICAN has fooled people for many years but people are begining to see the truth.

I've been telling people for ages, ever since (and before) the recent episodes of anti Muslim hysteria, that people in Muslim nations are just like people in Western nations.

They worry about their family, how to protect their loveed ones, how to put a meal on the table, etc etc, etc.

There is absolutely NO reason for the current level of anti Muslim hysteria, other than people buy into what is being driven by the media.

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by Grumble
Very funny that I just read the thread about the "liberal gene." Essentially, conservatives lack a gene responsible for a dopamine reaction that incentivizes a search for novelty. So liberals seek out new things, like travel to foreign countries, for example. It is no wonder that they tend to be those who are well traveled. And conservatives have limited life experiences and prefer sameness. Shocking!

That's funny!

You know, I consider myself a "conservative" person and I know that I've probably been to more countries than most of the "liberals" here on ATS.

So much for that study. I wonder how much they soaked the government for that?

If you discount any travel related to serving uncle sam, does your rebuttal still stand?

Cheers

Great post!

Long live North African cuisine!

I hopped on over to Morocco when I lived in Gibraltar. It was awesome. All I did was eat and golf.

I'm sure it's a nice place to visit but I don't want to be anywhere where religion plays such a big role in so many people's lives. It's bad enough here in the US.

I recall a few accounts of Australian backpacker friends talking about their trips to Morocco (2006-2009 period) and the picture is a little different to how the OP describes. The people were generally friendly, there was a wide variety of delicacies and the landscape was in many ways unique and beautiful. These seem to be on par with what the OP mentioned so one would think they carry an element of truth. But there were also some major negatives.

Firstly, I remember them telling me that the perception of Westerners was that they were rich. This lead to more than average begging from the average person which got to an unpleasant level for some of the backpackers. They were also approached for business deals and asked to invest in ideas because people had the misconception that coming from the West meant you had lots of money to share. (Remember, these are backpackers not socialites.)

Secondly, female backpackers were constantly approached by men and told they are beautiful, and were offered items in exchange for their companionship. This got to the point where females didn't feel safe staying in female only groups and had to have at least one male in their group when moving from location to location. A lot of the backpackers were taken back by this because it made them feel like their female friends were seen as property and not people. (There was no actual incident involving violence, but the atmosphere was uneasy at times.)

Other than those two things most of the accounts were positive and they were glad they made the trip. They emphasise that anybody wishing to holiday there should be aware of the cultural differences - especially involving the above two.

Dear Dark Ghost,

Thanks so much for your response. I, too, have heard of many travails of travelers in Morocco. In fact, I know someone who turned around and went home after being trampled in Tangiers for coins by a group of beggars.

This is a reality in most of the world's impoverished countries. I travel to Peru quite often, and getting used to such a thing is difficult, and yet seasoned travelers learn to do so. Simply put---poverty exists. So does begging. And the begging seems to exist in direct proportion to the poverty. I know that both Egypt and Peru seem to have much more of this type of problem than Morocco does. My own hometown has it, too. It just feels different to me when I recognize the streets in front of me and I am home in familiar territory. It's American begging...so what's the harm, right?

I'm sorry your friends felt uncomfortable when approached by men in Morocco. Western women seem to have a hard time in dark-skinned countries at times. I just chalk it up to to differences in culture. I see less and less of it though as I travel around in my job. Maybe I am just getting older, or maybe the world is getting better. Maybe it is a little of both. My last trip to Mexico was blessedly hassle-free when it came to having blonde hair. My trip to Morocco was even better.

May I just say that travel for most first world countrymen is much more difficult on these priveleged people? The water, bacteria, altitudes, machoism, relgious differences, time changes, etc, tend to escalate our differences and make us hyper-aware of a culture's unique characteristics. That is common.... but it's not to say that traveling is easy.

There are times when I am traveling when I long for my own bed, my own water source, even a McDonalds burger.

But the degree to which we acclimate differientiates us between travelers and tourists.

I like to think I am a traveler.

So it took a visit to a foreign country to figure out that the same 5% that makes islam look like a violent religion is the same 5% that makes christianity look like a bunch of kiddy fiddlers ?

This equation can be put to use on a whole ton of issues, like race, nationality, culture, religion, age, sex. 5% of every demographic ruins it for the other 95% who never gain media coverage due to there being nothing "out of the ordinary" to report, hence, no news.

To judge a whole religion based on extremists is a rather un-educated way to approach the situation . I do realise the MSM is trying to make people believe what they want in regards to islam, but come on, common sense ?

Please don't tar people with the same brush that media shows you , after all, it's a story. If it was normal , non violent day to day activity, there's no story !

Good Morning Dechende:

I have been accused of this (and justly so) all throughout this thread. The premise is that I was uneducated and ignorant for having no understranding of Islam before I left and should have known better.

I agree.

But when I look back at my thoughts, I must admit, I didn't have many. I remember that I studied the Palestinian/Israeli conflict in depth for a few weeks by googling and Wiki-ing, and I had studied WWII, but other than that, I didn't have a whole lot of deep thoughts about Islam. And therein lies the problem. I was porous. And porous means that I was ready to seep in whatever visual or material information that came across about Islam without a barrier to guard against prejudice. I was like a granite countertop, I admit, ready to digest whatever spilled on top of me.

That is why education is so important. And more than that, experience is the key.

Because I could have taken a class on Islam, but the information would have been theoretical. You can't know a beach through pictures....you have to feel the sand in your toes. And that is what happened to me in Morocco.

I knew better than to judge Islam, but until I could dip my toes in their waters, I wasn't really a good candidate for peace, love, and understanding.

I really wish it were that easy------teach everyone to love and be good.

But it doesn't work that way.

They have to find that way on their own. Whether by meeting a Muslim friend, or traveling to Morocco...or somehow experiencing that culture in a real way.....

I was a reporter once.

I thought I was educated and knoweldgeable.

But I was not.

Everyday, I wake up, and find out I wasn't the person I thought I was yesterday.

So, I have today to change that,

I want to be better today than I was yesterday.

I had the oppertunity to work the day shift at work one day a week for a month with a muslim convert. He was one of the coolest and down to earth guy I have met in a long time. Millitant muslums are one thing but the general muslum population is very open minded and for lack of a better term normal. This particular guy lives a very uncluttered life, no biased news and media, no television, he eats only whole foods and knows a lot about the world we live in. I never had a prejudice against muslum people but this guy reinforced what I already assumed about muslums. Getting to know him was quite a learning experience. I got to learn about the culture, beliefs and tribulations of a part of our society that I probably would still know nothing about.