We didn't kill our grandfather

October 25, 2010

The most common objection to science ever developing any form of time travel is called "The Grandfather Paradox" -- i.e. the ability to travel in time would mean, theoretically that you could kill your own ancestors, thus preventing your own birth. Indeed -- so the argument goes -- by altering any of the ingredients of the past, even by so much as the flutter of a butterfly's wing, you would inevitably change the present. Since the present manifestly exists, and is as it is, then obviously time-travel cannot occur.

In a recent July (2010) paper

Seth Lloyd of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology notes that fiction has been grappling with these problems for far longer than science, but that even most fictional accounts, going at least as far back as the Mahabarata epic of ancient India, deal with travel into the future. "Perhaps because of the various paradoxes to which it gives rise, the concept of travel to the past is a more recent invention," says Lloyd, pointing to Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol and Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. "The contemporary notion of time travel, together with all its attendant paradoxes, did not come into being until H.G. Wells masterpiece The Time Machine, which is also the first book to propose an actual device that can be used to travel back and forward in time."

Another recent paper (18 August 2010), published by Robert Lanza MD in the Huffington Post, draws on the latest research in quantum physics to go even further. We live in "a world of illusions" Lanza suggests: "Physics tells us that objects exist in a suspended state until observed when they collapse into just one outcome. Paradoxically, whether events happened in the past may not be determined until sometime in your future -- and may even depend on actions that you haven't yet taken."

www.boingboing.net...

Time travel has always fascinated me, they are trying to prove that there is no "Grandfather Paradox" which I am beginning to believe, furthermore I don't think time travel will ever be accomplished by a machine, it may be done by traveling to parallel universes or dimensions. It doesn't make since that we can jump into a machine and travel back in time or the future.

The grandfather paradox is if you went back in time and killed your grandfather, you wouldn't exist today and in fact would change the future in many ways. There is the possibility that if you did go back and kill your grandfather he would still be living in a parallel universe which would allow for you to be here today.

Robert Lanza, M.D.Scientist, Theoretician
August 18, 2010

Does the Past Exist Yet? Evidence Suggests Your Past Isn't Set in Stone

Recent discoveries require us to rethink our understanding of history. "The histories of the universe," said renowned physicist Stephen Hawking "depend on what is being measured, contrary to the usual idea that the universe has an objective observer-independent history."

Is it possible we live and die in a world of illusions? Physics tells us that objects exist in a suspended state until observed, when they collapse in to just one outcome. Paradoxically, whether events happened in the past may not be determined until sometime in your future -- and may even depend on actions that you haven't taken yet.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Dr. Robert Lanza has some very interesting ideas, he did an excellent interview with Art Bell on this topic in March 2010, he was promoting his new book call Biocentrism, How life and Consciousness are the Keys to Understanding the True Nature of the Universe, I highly recommend it. He is seen as radical in some circles but I for one appreciate that he is doing the research on this important field..

Biocentrism is about nothing exist unless it's observed, that is something that is hard to wrap your head around, does a tree really fall in the forest if it's not observed? This is a shift in our world view, turning the planet upside down, life creates the universe not the other way around.

They say a stitch in time saves nine, yet this was actually butchered from a switch in time saves nine, which was coined when Franklin D Roosevelt threatened to introduce legislation to Congress to add another 9 justices to the Supreme Court making it an 18 member body, if the 9 then current justices didn't stop overturning all his New Deal Policies.

So a swing Justice changed his vote to affirm a New Deal Policy right before Roosevelt introduced the legislation saving the Court from having to accept 9 new justices.

Yet there is talk of a stich in time saving nine, and it supposedly works on the theory that time travels in waves similiar to the water in the ocean.

That one can concievably dive through the waves forward or backwards if you can tune in to the dimensional flow that time operates on.

I tried this and while I was not able to tune in on that, I was able to pick up this really cool classic rock station in the Ozarks!

I would love to travel back and forth in time, most especially to loot and plunder and escape back to the future with impunity!

One of my favorite movies of all time was Time Bandits where a group of midgets working for God as his helpers stole his map of where the time portals were located throughout the earth and did just that.

Some people have claimed to accidentally step through portals in time and I think you might have even done a thread about that not too long ago Acquarius1.

it's interesting to think that future observations could determine what happened in the past.

as an atheist what has bothered me for a while is that shouldn't the universe itself exist in a suspended state unless something or someone observed the beginning? or does this now mean that the beginning will be observed, maybe by humans, at some point in the future thus allowing it to have happened in the first place.

trippy

lets be real, its better to think that time travel to the past doesnt exist

IF it does, you would have to assume that we live into a virtual reality, since thats the best thing we have to describe a system that could provide a mechanism to create a lot of universes, new time lines thought ancient ones, etc

even Michio Kaku says that our time may work like a river where it could split in two, so, if you go back in time, you wouldnt actually be killing your grandfather, but you would be killing another guy that looks exactly like him in another "time line" or universe

with a computer model, we would be able to describe that POSSIBLE characteristic of our world: lets assume our world stores every information that has ever happened; by doing that, the world could restore an ancient time and kind of start a new time line thought that > well, at least thats my interpretation of a possible travel back to the past and its possibilities

but I prefer to not believe in time travel to the past, since we have no evidence that our world is or isnt virtual, or that time travel (to the past) is possible

*time travel to the future is possible, actually is already proven to exist ... if anyone has any doubts

reply to post by Electric Crown

as an atheist what has bothered me for a while is that shouldn't the universe itself exist in a suspended state unless something or someone observed the beginning?

Interesting post Electric Crown, but my question to you is what does it have to do with being an atheist, this is not a thread on religion, in fact has nothing to with religion.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I would love to travel back and forth in time, most especially to loot and plunder and escape back to the future with impunity!

Of course you would love to travel back in time Proto, your reasoning is not the reason why most would like to do that, but then again what do I know about others motives.

Thanks for posting.

Time travel is a very underrated topic, even here on ATS. Altough I am fairly new as a member, I do nt recall seeing many threads regarding time travel. I have always been fascinated with it, perhaps growing up in the 80's and watching Marty McFly almost date his mom has something to do with that. I am familiar with most time travel theories, although not necessarily by name.

I happen to think that time travel is possible it just hasnt been done quite yet successfully. I know people ask all the time, if it is possible then where are all the people from the future. Maybe we just arent looking for them. I mean it took 80 some years to notice one possible item in the charlie Chaplin film that was discussed the other day. Perhaps if we looked we might find something.

It would be difficult though, since we have no idea what future tech looks like. Even if someone was on a train in NYC with something futuristic, we would just assume he has the latest iWhatever that we havnt even heard of yet.

So many thought, I'll comment more later if i can organize them.

Originally posted by Faiol
lets be real, its better to think that time travel to the past doesnt exist

Why would you think it better that time travel not exist?

even Michio Kaku says that our time may work like a river where it could split in two, so, if you go back in time, you wouldnt actually be killing your grandfather, but you would be killing another guy that looks exactly like him in another "time line" or universe

Dr. Michio Kaku also says there could be am many as eleven dimensions and that we could be interacting with them from time to time.

with a computer model, we would be able to describe that POSSIBLE characteristic of our world: lets assume our world stores every information that has ever happened; by doing that, the world could restore an ancient time and kind of start a new time line thought that > well, at least thats my interpretation of a possible travel back to the past and its possibilities

A computer model is fine, what they are working on is going back to the past in reality, it may be they can do that by tapping into other dimensions and time lines with the mind not a machine.

but I prefer to not believe in time travel to the past, since we have no evidence that our world is or isnt virtual, or that time travel (to the past) is possible

The cutting edge research that is going on today is to find that evidence, we are lucky in that we have scientists working on this who are willing to think outside the box.

*time travel to the future is possible, actually is already proven to exist ... if anyone has any doubts

Now you have me confused, you said that time travel isn't possible in one breath and in the next breath you say time travel is possible and proof already exists. Where is the proof, I would like to that and some links to that proof.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by Electric Crown

 

as an atheist what has bothered me for a while is that shouldn't the universe itself exist in a suspended state unless something or someone observed the beginning?

Interesting post Electric Crown, but my question to you is what does it have to do with being an atheist, this is not a thread on religion, in fact has nothing to with religion.

Thanks for posting.

well if in fact someone or somethings observation caused the universe to exist as it does as opposed to existing in a state of fluxuation then it might imply a creator. Thats all

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
They say a stitch in time saves nine, yet this was actually butchered from a switch in time saves nine, which was coined when Franklin D Roosevelt threatened to introduce legislation to Congress to add another 9 justices to the Supreme Court making it an 18 member body, if the 9 then current justices didn't stop overturning all his New Deal Policies.

Not to detract from the point of your post here, nor to be pedantic, but your assertion that the "Stitch in time" idiom was originally from something Roosevelt said just has to be corrected. The idiom is as old as sewing, to be sure. It has to do with repairing broken seams in time so that you save time and work later. And otherwise, it was never attributed to Roosevelt anyway. Apparently, some chap by the name of Joseph Alsop is given credit for it. But whatever...

I won't comment on the rest of your post.