Gay Appointments

Originally posted by SevenBeans

And by the way, blacks can't hide the color of their skin, if we could have we would have (because we faced ACTUAL discrimination like SLAVERY and OWNERS with WHIPS). If you were really scared about discrimination and violence you wouldn't go around telling everyone that you're gay, no one cares anyhow.

As someone who's worked in the mental health profession, that's really naive.

Actually, closeted homosexuals trying to hide their orientation also face much discrimination in middle school, high school and beyond unless they're skilled at masking their true identity. Even if they don't officially come out of the closet and admit they're gay, probably over half the time other people suspect or conclude that they are. And that sometimes subjects such persons to terrible cruel treatment from others. A subgroup of homosexual males, for example, will be effeminate and others will notice they don't seem to express interest in girls, and/or that some of their interests seem to be effeminate. But even the closeted gay males that have a masculine personality may nonetheless be figured out by other boys.... they may realize he never dates girls, doesn't seem interested in girls, never has anything to say when they guys are talking about hot chicks, etc. They may even test such boys when they're suspicious seeing how they react and if it comports with typical 'man behavior.' As a matter of fact, the abuse these closeted people face (if suspected or found out), may actually be worse than what's often received by those who actually come out of the closet.

In addition to that, sometimes straight boys are bullied because people think they're gay. Maybe one straight boy had been sexually abused or is simply suffering from severe depression or other mental illness and doesn't express himself psychosexually like other males in a social context. His immature peers then intuitively recognize his lack of overt masculine sexuality and drive, start wondering why he doesn't "hang out with the guys", etc, and then this person, who is already suffering for other reasons, gets to be ridiculed and humiliated and accused of being a "homo".

The whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing is incredibly naive. Sexuality influences almost every aspect of social interaction with one's peers; it's not an exaggeration to say it affects just about everything about one's life, even if indirectly. And to some extent, people can often sense intuitively that something is off with another person, and a group may then plot against this person concluding that he must be homosexual. It's not just kids that do this, either. It's fellow enlisted peers in the military. It's co-workers. It's everyone. It's family. It's one's father. Millions of parents of closeted gay kids intentionally engage in hate-filled anti-homosexual rants around the child they suspect of being gay, thinking they can traumatize and "teach" him a lesson about what happens to gays, or that they can "toughen up" and "straighten out" their son who they think is a "fairy" or some such thing. It goes on all the time in the world.

In other words, closeted homosexuals often have to be willing to wake up every day and be an actor and try to live a lie so convincing that their parents, siblings, and peers don't start thinking they're homosexual, while hoping to never mess up and do anything that may reveal them as homosexual; like being caught staring at another guy in a magazine or in real life, etc. This might even extend as far as dating women they can't feel anything for and going out of their way to demonstrate a falsehood to the rest of the world.

And then --- on top of all that --- these closeted people get to feel lonely for their whole lives as they realize they can never fall in love or have a relationship like everyone else, where loneliness and despair predominates. Every time they see a teenage boy and girl walk by holding hands it probably makes a lot of them feel sad, as they realize they never got to have a girlfriend/boyfriend in high school, etc. Many of them even commit suicide. It derails their social development. It derails everything. And it often decimates their self esteem to a high degree and prevents them from having motivation to excel at anything in life. Perhaps such a person tries to go to college after high school, but then realizes he has no motivation and fails even though he is highly intelligent, etc. And that can add more misery on top of what they already have. Some of these people cope well and adapt to their condition and manage to succeed in other ways in life, but others find themselves unable to, and it is, quite frankly, tragic.

Gay Appointments is okay. We cannot really judge a man or woman to be gay in how they behave but only when they start acting unusual for a man if he is a man or for a woman if he is a woman sexually like liking a man if he is a man and liking a woman if she is a woman ang worse if he kiss and make love to his/her same sex, but otherwise we can't judge or prevent them from having a job but we can prevent them from spreading a disgraceful act of homosexuality or lesbianism. But giving them a job or appoint them is okay. And I love America for that, giving all the opportunity to have a job for this nation-America and Americans progress. The only thing I don’t like about my fellow Americans is they tolerate gay marriage, same sex marriage and gay relationship or making it look like a male and a female relationship, They are tolerating such, and really tolerating such relationship instead of making a solution to resist and stop this disgraceful relationship knowing such as an abomination to the Lord. Americans are intelligent and great people they have sent a man to the moon, invented cure for many diseases but why they could not solve this topsy-turvy or weird kind of situation, this same sex marriage and relationship. No wonder this circumstance is the cause of their recession. And if they would not find solution to these, if they would not stop this abominable situation, then things are going to be worst for them. Remember Sodom & Gomorrah. But I thankful that there are still good and normal people praying to God and I believe that this good people are the reason God will not punish Americans. And the only thing I can be criticized by Americans is maybe because they’re not the only nation doing this or they’re not the only ones who are doing this but the British or the Arabs who are doing this same sex relationship and same sex marriage also. But that’s not the point. The point is whoever is doing this homosexual relationship or same sex marriage is an abomination to the Lord. God is very angry. This kind of same sex relationship and marriage is being done in America, and what America is doing about this, instead of minimizing and making a solution to this same sex relationship and marriage issue has legalized the same sex marriage and relationship by legislating/creating a law to the effect, that’s the cause of the big problem that American is facing now economically and healthwise. The ScriptureText Black said about this 'homosexuality' - “Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:10Arial

There is no proof that Matthew Shepard was killed just because he was gay, the same is true of most "hate crimes."

Except a testimony from his killers saying that they did it "because he came on to me in the truck and it made me feel uncomfortable"... you know... just like those women do to creepy narcissistic men... oh wait, no they don't -- they aren't insecure about their sexual orientation and take it out on someone's child... to be sympathized with by none other than...

I'm absolutely appalled that you discredit what used to be this young man's life with your overflowing ignorance, you have officially gone too far and I'm not going to pretend someone this indignant and sociopathic is even worth my time.

Originally posted by IamCorrect
As someone who's worked in the mental health profession, that's really naive.

Actually, closeted homosexuals trying to hide their orientation also face much discrimination in middle school, high school and beyond unless they're skilled at masking their true identity. Even if they don't officially come out of the closet and admit they're gay, probably over half the time other people suspect or conclude that they are.

There is nothing niave about what I wrote. Yes, people might eventually suspect etc. etc. That is a whole different ball game than the color of your skin, which is immediately apparent to everyone.

The fact remains that if gay people were sincerely worried about violence over their sexual preference they would not be so quick to tell everyone about it.

Originally posted by IamCorrect
In addition to that, sometimes straight boys are bullied because people think they're gay.

Yup, and some people are bullied and suffer violence because they're white, or they have braces, or they have red hair, or because they're short, or because they're fat, or because they're poor, or because they're rich, or because they stutter. No type of victim deserves more attention, sympathy, protection etc. etc. than any other and many of these victims have absolutely no hope of hiding the things they are discriminated against for.

Originally posted by IamCorrect
In other words, closeted homosexuals often have to be willing to wake up every day and be an actor and try to live a lie so convincing that their parents, siblings, and peers don't start thinking they're homosexual, while hoping to never mess up and do anything that may reveal them as homosexual; like being caught staring at another guy in a magazine or in real life, etc. This might even extend as far as dating women they can't feel anything for and going out of their way to demonstrate a falsehood to the rest of the world.

I have news for you... just about everyone has desires that they want to conceal, just about everyone feels shame over something or other and just about everyone knows what it's like to have to put on a happy face, pretend in order to fit in, hide certain things etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying it isn't a terrible thing, it IS, but it isn't something unique to homosexuals.

There are all kinds of sexual desires, fetishes etc. etc. that will get you ridiculed and discriminated against (I expect you would probably ridicule some sexual desires). The law doesn't discriminate against these desires though, so the comparison to discrimination of black people is absurd.

Originally posted by Brood
Except a testimony from his killers saying that they did it "because he came on to me in the truck and it made me feel uncomfortable"...

abcnews.go.com...


"The prosecutor who prosecuted these crimes says that he never believed it was a hate crime. He believes it was a drug crime. Aaron McKinney, according to Aaron McKinney himself and to several other witnesses, was coming down from a five-day methamphetamine binge. He freely admits he not only used methamphetamine but dealt them, sold them. Five days up with no sleep, strung out on drugs, desperate to buy more, desperate to rob somebody to get money to buy more drugs. This was the motive, according to Aaron McKinney and the other witnesses."

newsbusters.org...

A short time after leaving Matthew Shepard he was trying to beat the crap out of someone else, but this time the person he attacked had a bat. It's called meth rage.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

And heterosexuals NEVER do anything like that, do they!

Mardi Gras in New Orleans... Fantasy Fest in Key West... etc. etc. etc.

Notice the names have nothing to do with sexual orientation? You obviously completely missed the point...

Originally posted by IamCorrect
Every time they see a teenage boy and girl walk by holding hands it probably makes a lot of them feel sad, as they realize they never got to have a girlfriend/boyfriend in high school, etc. Many of them even commit suicide.

I never had a long term girlfriend in highschool because they wanted to have sex and I refused. I lost relationship after relationship in college over this too. Boohoo, I think I'll kill myself. Did it make me sad? Yes absolutely, but I would not risk creating a child before I could be a good parent.

Why didn't they have a girlfriend/boyfriend? I'd imagine that it's harder to find someone you love when you have such a reduced population size (homosexuals) to choose from, just like I faced (people willing to wait to have sex). It's sad, many situations in life are sad, it doesn't necesarily make us "victims" though.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

And heterosexuals NEVER do anything like that, do they!

Mardi Gras in New Orleans... Fantasy Fest in Key West... etc. etc. etc.

Notice the names have nothing to do with sexual orientation? You obviously completely missed the point...

Its really kind of a 'flashing red light' how often posters keep missing the point in response to you.

I think they're actually hitting the point dead on. It is you who can't see the reality of it.

reply to post by Saucy10


Giant text walls are NEVER cool... They are VERY hard to read... You might have had something really important to add to the conversation, but I refuse to read it because I don't want a headache... Please refrain from giant paragraph replies...

reply to post by SevenBeans

Tangeman told the jury that drugs, alcohol and past instances of sexual abuse on defendant Aaron McKinney, as well as overt sexual advances by diminutive Shepard all conspired against McKinney to commit the crime. Tangeman told the jury several instances in which McKinney, starting at age 5, had been abused by other boys. In one case, when he was 7, McKinney had been forced to perform oral sex and engage in a sexual act with another 7-year-old neighborhood bully who deemed McKinney a homosexual. Tangeman also noted a "confusing" experience at age 15 with one of McKinney’s cousins.

Prosecutor Cal Rerucha knew the "gay panic" defense was coming and counterattacked with his opening outline of the events that happened.
Fireside employees will testify, "If anything stood out, it was the fragileness of Shepard, " Rerucha stated. Henderson and McKinney approached Shepard. They had talked and agreed to rob Shepard. "McKinney and Henderson picked Shepard out of the bar as an easy mark. The three left the bar in a truck, Henderson driving them out of town. Aaron said, ‘We’re not gay and you’re getting jacked,’ " Rerucha continued. McKinney then began hitting Shepard over the head with a .357-Magnum pistol. Rerucha said that when the beating started, Shepard pleaded with his attacker, telling him that while there was only $20 in his wallet, there was $150 at his home and they could have that. After stopping in a deserted field McKinney made Shepard get out of the truck. "McKinney was worried Mr. Shepard could see his license plates, " Rerucha said. Rerucha said "McKinney asked ‘Can you read my license plate?’ Matthew Shepard said, ‘Yes I can read your license’ and read it. " This further enraged McKinney who struck him three more times over the head as hard as he could, knocking him unconscious. "He read it back to me and I hit him again, " McKinney said in his taped confession to the police. "Matt Shepard begged for his life. Matt Shepard negotiated for his life, but McKinney gave him blow after blow, " Rerucha said.

Source

According to subsequent testimony by both women (Chastity Paisley and Kristen Price [the two mens' girlfriends]), the two men planned in advance to “play queer,” gain the trust of some homosexual, and then rob and beat him up. Their story was later confirmed when Henderson turned state’s evidence in order to avoid the death penalty.

Source

Sorry to post the actual whole piece of text from the soruce instead of just selectively picking what I want to support my points and leave the rest of the context that proves me wrong completely out. I'm not that evangelically brainwashed.

Now, continue disrespecting a dead child and touting your morals above "the gays'" .

You're so much better than everyone.

Seriously, ignorant, arrogant narcissists are the reason I moved away from the U.S... seems now they've convinced their children to teach them how to use a computer so that they can spread their ignorance around the internet and discredit tragic losses of human life to drug activity that the victim was never involved in...

The fact that someone that thinks like you is allowed to have children in this country is the only detriment to freedom of reproduction. Malinformed scum that fabricates opinions based on biased, selective research and impedes on other peoples' rights for no reason other than to prove a point that was never valid in the first place. I've seen people like this many times and their children are undeniably the most socially unacceptable face scags on the planet that end up getting involved in ridiculously disgusting activity like McKinney.

Seriously, you've been ranting here for how long and accumulated how much support for this nonsense you spew? Get over yourself and go do something productive.

What part of what you quoted proves that he was killed because he was gay?

"According to subsequent testimony by both women (Chastity Paisley and Kristen Price [the two mens' girlfriends]), the two men planned in advance to “play queer,” gain the trust of some homosexual, and then rob and beat him up. Their story was later confirmed when Henderson turned state’s evidence in order to avoid the death penalty."

This certainly doesn't.

The prosecuter never believed it was a hate crime, but we're supposed to take Brood's word for it lol.

Using the possibility of sex to lure people away and rob them is so common that it's become cliche.

The rest of your post is dishonest spittle, it's clear that you're incapable of looking at these issues in a calm objective way.

reply to post by SevenBeans


Prove? Let's just say it's beyond a reasonable doubt...

...meaning your doubts are unreasonable.

Good day.

The prosecuter never believed it was a hate crime, but we're supposed to take Brood's word for it lol.

This coming from someone who hasn't sourced any credible information, yet continues to condemn 8% of the population based on something that he is clearly incapable of arguing?

What life experiences do you have with homosexuality? I have decades upon decades. But I suppose YOU should be educating ME, right ?

Taking my word for it would be the smartest thought you've ever had on this topic.

The prosecutor? I had a groups of teenagers that went to high school with me take my coat from the coat rack and my work when I was 18, drive around my drive-thru lane, throwing ripped pieces of the coat at the window screaming "Burn in hell, fag!". The prosecutor did not see how it was a hate crime, either. I guess prosecutors are just as capable of fabricating straw man arguments as you are.

Originally posted by Brood
This coming from someone who hasn't sourced any credible information, yet continues to condemn 8% of the population based on something that he is clearly incapable of arguing?

I've provided perfectly credible sources.

Who on earth have I "condemned" LOL? Silly drama queen nonsense.

Originally posted by Brood
What life experiences do you have with homosexuality? I have decades upon decades. But I suppose YOU should be educating ME, right

?

You don't have to be homosexual to realize they can do anything that a straight person can do (except the military bit). I'm still waiting for you to point some things out... I'd have thought you'd have listed hundreds of things by now (since it's "soooo comprable" to the bias black people went through).

Originally posted by Brood
The prosecutor? I had a groups of teenagers that went to high school with me take my coat from the coat rack and my work when I was 18, drive around my drive-thru lane, throwing ripped pieces of the coat at the window screaming "Burn in hell, fag!". The prosecutor did not see how it was a hate crime, either. I guess prosecutors are just as capable of fabricating straw man arguments as you are.

edit on 15-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

This is the problem, you can't look at the issue rationally. There is no proof that he was killed because he was gay, you see a homosexual get beat up or killed and you just assume that it must be over hatred of homosexuals.

I had a friend in the sixth grade who had his arm broken because he worked on a farm and sometimes he smelled like manure, they called him Cow Pattie. In the second grade there was a girl who had some kind of skin problem, every time she got near other kids they would say "Jenny germs, Jenny germs, run" (this went on for years and she had crying fits/mental breakdowns at least twice a week). I have a hundred stories like this, many of them much worse than your story. None of this stuff is acceptable, but it happens to almost everyone at one point or another.

Originally posted by Brood
Prove? Let's just say it's beyond a reasonable doubt...

Nonsense. He hadn't slept for 5 days, was having withdrawal from meth and needed money for more drugs, he was beating someone else up 20 minutes later.

This information alone is enough to create reasonable doubt about the motive.

You don't have to be homosexual to realize they can do anything that a straight person can do (except the military bit). I'm still waiting for you to point some things out... I'd have thought you'd have listed hundreds of things by now (since it's "soooo comprable" to the bias black people went through).

You don't have to be homosexual to do some modern research and prove yourself wrong. Black people can do anything white people can do. What are you on about? Oh you going to give me an argument against that? I'll just say I can't do anything about it and pretend that is a valid argument. Sound familiar?

This is the problem, you can't look at the issue rationally.

No offense, based on your activity on ATS, you're probably the last person I would take advice from on how to think rationally.

There is no proof that he was killed because he was gay, you see a homosexual get beat up or killed and you just assume that it must be over hatred of homosexuals.

Except a testimony from the murderer that said that he planned to lure in a gay guy and hit on him then beat him up and rob him. Again, you are the one incapable of accepting the truth here. These are hard facts. Get over it.

I had a friend in the sixth grade who had his arm broken because he worked on a farm and sometimes he smelled like manure, they called him Cow Pattie. In the second grade there was a girl who had some kind of skin problem, every time she got near other kids they would say "Jenny germs, Jenny germs, run" (this went on for years and she had crying fits/mental breakdowns at least twice a week). I have a hundred stories like this, many of them much worse than your story. None of this stuff is acceptable, but it happens to almost everyone at one point or another.

And which of these instances is protected by official protected grounds in the criminal code? Guess they aren't hate crimes. I thought you were going for an argument here, apparently not.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Nonsense. He hadn't slept for 5 days, was having withdrawal from meth and needed money for more drugs, he was beating someone else up 20 minutes later.

This information alone is enough to create reasonable doubt about the motive.

Thank you for finding half of the motive that was determined for this case. I've already given you the other half. MvKinney had a rumor going around his group that he was sleeping with one of his friends and that he was "bisexual". His girlfriends testified separately that the men had conspired to lead on some gay guy and rob him. One of them pointed out how coincidentally this would clear their names of being called "butt buddies" around the school. McKinney then testified that this entire story was true.

Surely this was just some drug deal tyranny. Promptly ignore this information so suit your agenda to attack the truth.

I suppose you're upset that someone capable of this is going to be out of jail after 2 life terms instead of 1. Seriously, pick your battles.

Originally posted by Brood
=You don't have to be homosexual to do some modern research and prove yourself wrong.

List one thing the law allows straight people to do and not gay people? Anything? I've been begging you for one example for pages now and you've produced exactly ZERO.

Originally posted by Brood
Black people can do anything white people can do. What are you on about? Oh you going to give me an argument against that?

Right, now we can, but we had to fight for that. Gays can do anything straights can do, you already have equal rights, so stop comparing your "plight" to the ACTUAL legal discrimination that blacks faced.

Originally posted by Brood
Except a testimony from the murderer that said that he planned to lure in a gay guy and hit on him then beat him up and rob him. Again, you are the one incapable of accepting the truth here. These are hard facts. Get over it.

So what? People get hit on, invited someplace private (thinking they're going to have sex) and then get robbed. It's the oldest friggan trick in the book and proves nothing about hatred. Why you think this proves something is beyond me.

If a woman hits on a man, lures him to a private place, smacks him with a crowbar and robs him... I guess that must be a hate crime against straight people. DUH, not.

Originally posted by Brood
And which of these instances is protected by official protected grounds in the criminal code? Guess they aren't hate crimes.

DUH, that's the point Einstein and that's why I oppose hate crimes legislation.

Why do you think someone who beats the crap out of a Veteran for example (because they hate Veterans) deserves less punishment than someone who beats up a homosexual (because they hate homosexuals)?

I think they deserve the same amount of punishment.

reply to post by SevenBeans

If a woman hits on a man, lures him to a private place, smacks him with a crowbar and robs him... I guess that must be a hate crime against straight people. DUH, not.

And if she, say, was a lesbian, and said, "I'm going to lure a straight man in and rob him", it would be the same situation, and she would be charged with a hate crime.

DUH, that's the point Einstein and that's why I oppose hate crimes legislation.

Getting emotional? (You forgot your first grade punctuation, sweetheart). Keep the conversation on the topic, please.

So you just admitted that you oppose hate crime legislation because you don't understand it? Understood.

Why do you think someone who beats the crap out of a Veteran for example (because they hate Veterans) deserves less punishment than someone who beats up a homosexual (because they hate homosexuals)?

I think they deserve the same amount of punishment.

Because veterans chose to serve in the military, that's the difference. A veteran could stop wearing his/her war uniform or medals and talking about Communists and Nazis (trying to make up reasons why people could possibly hate a war veteran). Homosexuals did not choose to be gay, and no matter how hard they are rideculed and hounded about it, there is nothing they can do to change it. Whether or not this is a globally accepted truth does not change that fact.

Originally posted by Brood
And if she, say, was a lesbian, and said, "I'm going to lure a straight man in and rob him", it would be the same situation, and she would be charged with a hate crime.

Complete and utter nonsense. You think she could lure a gay Man away with the promise of sex? DURR! Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with opportunity.

Originally posted by Brood
Because veterans chose to serve in the military, that's the difference. A veteran could stop wearing his/her war uniform or medals and talking about Communists and Nazis (trying to make up reasons why people could possibly hate a war veteran). Homosexuals did not choose to be gay, and no matter how hard they are rideculed and hounded about it, there is nothing they can do to change it. Whether or not this is a globally accepted truth does not change that fact.

edit on 15-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

Right a veteran can just hide the fact that he served... pathetic.

How about someone that gets beat up for being skinny, or having acne, or being born to rich parents or poor parents etc. etc. etc. You are the biased one, not me. There is no reason that one kind of victim deserves more attention, sympathy etc. etc. and there is no reason that hate inspired violence should be punished differently based on the target.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Brood
And if she, say, was a lesbian, and said, "I'm going to lure a straight man in and rob him", it would be the same situation, and she would be charged with a hate crime.

Complete and utter nonsense. You think she could lure a gay Man away with the promise of sex? DURR! Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with opportunity.

Can you not read? Who said anything about gay men? Seriously . DURRR. Straight men can also charge people with hate crimes against their heterosexuality if in the same situation when provable that a lesbian did this intentionally because he was a straight man.

Right a veteran can just hide the fact that he served... pathetic.

If you don't like it, you can come march in the Veteran's section of the Gay Pride Parade where they protest this kind of stuff. Too bad you're too busy looking at the nudists and blaming "the gays" for something that has nothing to do with them. Perv.

How about someone that gets beat up for being skinny, or having acne, or being born to rich parents or poor parents etc. etc. etc. You are the biased one, not me. There is no reason that one kind of victim deserves more attention, sympathy etc. etc. and there is no reason that hate inspired violence should be punished differently based on the target.

What are you telling me for? If you want more protected grounds then fight for them. "The gays" are the last people that are going to stand in your way. Redirect your frustrations.