Why we're pissed: A Reminder

Couldn't agree more with the OP - - all I have to say is vote out ALL incumbents next Tuesday. We the people determine who gets a job when it somes to Congress. Every 2 years we get to be heard....keep voting incumbents out until they realize who they actually work for. People are asking how can we fix this - - this is a thought...a small step maybe, but at least something we can actually do on our own.

reply to post by romanmel


whatever did any libertarian ever promise you? doubt whether a libertarian even ever promised to imprison you if you chose not to live like a free man! as to eggs(?), over easy, hardboiled? wtf? liked the way AYN RAND said there were 3 kinds of people: attilas, witch doctors, and traders. does one do well to shoot putative traders on sight? if we can can leave the eggs for a moment, what kind of human would you recommend to our children as role models?

reply to post by Rhadamanthus
That is an outstanding analogy, in my opinion, more folks would pay attention to the inner-workings of the political game if they would teach it in those terms of simplification.

I agree with the OP.

The state of affairs in this country is staggering, once you really open your eyes. In my opinion, complacency is the biggest enemy these days. It really bothers me that (repub or dem) voters are overwhelmingly disenchanted with their own party politics, and I hear increasingly its a choice between "the lesser of two evils." Similarly, if you're a democrat you're a socialist, and if you're a republican you're a racist...... Really? Why adults feel the need to start name calling is beyond me.

I consider myself a conservative, because thats what makes sense to me. However, that being said, I dont trust many of the political candidates that claim to have conservative principals. These days, politicians will say whatever their speech writers think will make them appear to understand the common man. We never truly get to know these people we hand power to, every word that comes out of their mouth has been carefully scripted appropriately. Sometimes, when they try to think for themselves, we immediately see how incapable most are of even forming complete and coherent sentences! ( e.g. Obama )

I find it tragic that we have no sense of pride in our leaders, no confidence in their intentions, but not without reasons...and there are many. This is why I am pissed. And, this is why I will support anyone who is ready to turn this rotten egg/pile of dung smelling group of elitists on its head. Its time for the government to once again fear the people.

P.S. If you are a Californian and you vote for Jerry Brown, you either have memory loss, or you're intentionally trying to sink this already damaged ship. Liberals take note: we WILL stomp on your head. Dont make us send a Rand Paul supporter after you!!!

reply to post by projectvxn


The problem isn't with Wall st. or the government they are just doing what any human would do in their situation, take advantage of clueless people. People are ignorant to the facts of what is happening on Wall St. because they don't know what is going on and frankly I don't blame them.

There is so much information to take in, not one person could know everything that is going on around them. People have entrusted the government and all related experts to find these crooks and put them behind bars. But what happens when the people you instill to protect get bought out by the crooks they are supposed to apprehend? You get Wall St., Banks, and The FED.

There is too much money for any human to go up against. You need mass education of the people to raise some hell.

What can we do?

The answer, and most people don't want to hear this, is that there is no political solution. Political governance (or governance in general) itself is the problem, and if you participate in it you are lending legitimacy to it.

We must de-legitimize the entire system by refusing to cooperate with it whenever & wherever we can--peaceful mass civil disobedience. Don't participate in their elections. Don't pay your "taxes". Don't buy your goods & services from gigantic global corporate pigs. Don't get sucked into arguments about Republicans & Democrats, liberals & conservatives.

Transcendence of the system is the key. Working within it to change it isn't going to work. Watch what happens to these tea party candidates once they get into office. Nothing will change. They will be corrupted by TPTB (I'd argue they've already been corrupted) and it will be business as usual.

Don't allow yourself to be fooled any longer. Government has one purpose, and one purpose only--to control the many for the benefit of the few. Forget public safety, national defense, contract enforcement, etc. These are simply carrots they dangle in front of you to make you think you need them. You don't. Once enough people wake up and rise above this archaic and tyrannical illusion of a free society, we will see the true potential of humanity's future.

You have to open your eyes and transcend the social constructs that have been developed since the dawn of time to keep you under control. Political government is one of those constructs.

First of all there is no such thing as Republicans and Democrats. Now here comes the hard part especially for the ones that cant get past the first fact about Republicans and Democrats. and that is...there is no such thing as Tea Partiers or Libetarians.
(Noting that these are the 4 main paties that get legitimate coverage and recognition as of today)

Lets take the elevator down to sublevel 322 remembering that this is just one of many elevator shafts and sections of this secret facility.



As you can tell...Kerry wasn't amused at all to the question.

Its not a joke, a movie, or a cartoon folks. Look sharp..chop chop ...Wake up

reply to post by projectvxn


I refuse to cooperate with the system. I no longer vote, bank, work for someone other than myself, no credit cards, non of it anymore.

If no-one cooperates with the fraud and lies it all dies.

I say voting now is futile..... and that comes from someone that volunteered for campaigns and was the dutiful citizen. Same crooks...different suites.

Stop banking. I say everyone out there with credit card debt default. Every one would have a bad credit rating so the powers couldn't use it against us. And stopping credit card payments would say a lot to the crooks. Let's face it most people slave away just to pay interest. Stop being a disgruntled but obedient slave. Remove your money funds from banks and buy money orders or pay with cash. It aint that hard and you may feel satisfied by exerting yourself for yourself.

This kind of civil disobedience would cause some serious change

Politicians, from the president on down, are puppets, just something to look at. The ones with the money who are giving the orders and making the decisions stay hidden in the shadows.

Take note sometime of how certain things never seem to change no matter who is in office .......

- The illegal immigration problem.
- NAFTA destroying jobs in America.
- Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
- Bailing out big business and Wall Street.
- Global governance.

reply to post by Common Scarecrow


The best way to get to the puppet masters is to stop paying them.

When will people learn it's all a show, left, right, middle, second or third, it all does not matter rich or poor. The only thing it was created for is control and certain other functions, many consciousness are trapped and maintain this system just by the very fact that they need something to believe in, it promises them a future, and tells them how the future will be...I know its silly, they and the system dont even know what the past was, or even why the present is the way it is, but they seem to think they know how the future will be, it's funny truly. But I suppose humanity like everything else needs rules, and a goal to function. But NthOther is right you can't change the system, even the so called elites are just slaves to the system, they just like there shiny halsters, so none of you singular or on mass have the power to change the system. But you can transcend the system in time, as soon as you figure out how it works and what it is, till then you can still make and implement some rules or laws, using the system, so you all dont destroy eachother...thill you are able to transcend the system. Just do what the rich and corporations do when they go to government, set rules and laws in place that are more balanced and benefit you the people as a whole. And all you have to do to transcend this system is face yourselves, so basically the hardest path possible..... Because this system is set up on the things that you can most trust human's to do no matter were they come from or what type they are, you can't trust on there charity or love or good or there bad or there evil, all of that is subjective one person's or groups good can be another's bad, and vice versa, another's bad is somebody's good, keyword is vice hence versa, so you can't trust on those and this system was not designed to turn based around those, but sure as hell, you can always trust on there greed and there pettyness and just plain self preservation by self only, or by way of groups, hece government and the attraction to governance......So the system works, because you can always count on people to be what they are, especially greed. I pretty sure it's been all said before.

reply to post by projectvxn


I would love to star and flag because all of you guys are on the money.
But
solutions! We need solutions!
Its fine that we all agree that a fascist group coupe the US, regardless of who they are. We can agree though that it is the corporation and not the people who are in control now because of powerful lobbies.
I have an idea but it is one that needs work:
Make the American People into a corporation. Get a lobby. Make laws for us. Take us out of this type of governess into one which we trick them into believing they have control over, but in the end, THEY get bent over while we applaud.
Whose with me?

solutions! We need solutions!

Refuse to contract with banks! Stop doing business with them. Given that the interest paid on a savings account is lower than the rate of inflation, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a savings account is a loosing proposition for the person with that account, and more than profitable for the bank.

Do what you can to refuse payment in checks, and demand payment in cash, or even better, if you can negotiate it, demand payment in gold or silver. Easier said than done, I understand, but it is not just a solution, it is the answer.

There is no law that actually requires an employee to sign a Form W-4, or to supply a Social Security Number. In fact, when one actually takes the time to read the statutes regarding Form W-4's and supplying SSN's, as well as the Federal Code of Regulations, it is quite clear that employers are only required to request signatures on Form W-4's, and Social Security Numbers and in the event an employee fails to acquiesce to these requests, the CFR tells that employer precisely what to do, and what they tell that employer to do is not at all refuse employment, or hold back pay, but all they have to do is fill out a form and a sworn affidavit that they complied with the request provision.

This means that employees have always had far more power to negotiate than most of us have been led to believe. Refuse to authorize your employer to act as a fiat tax collector!

Also, as has been pointed out by myself, and another poster, jury nullification is yet another answer in what we can do to reign in the corruption of government.

reply to post by projectvxn


when aliens land they'll bring a better form of government. 99% of the people here whining don't have 2 cents to rub together and have absolutely no power to change anything. so this thread is basically pointless.

Solutions. Well, it seems voting for one party or the other is not working. Maybe get back to voting for individuals that espouse libertarian and free market principles. As most of the people know, elected officials can change their stance on the spur of the moment. They will vote for things that exactly opposite of what they have stated. Therefore that is only the first step.

The next is information. It always comes down to information and for spreading that information.

Peaceful non compliance to legislation you know in your heart not to be just.
Enforcement of those beliefs by informing yourself and others of the possible redress of grievance procedures as JPZ has stated. Jury nullification etc. Learn the basics of the law and Constitution, both federal and state.
Alternate forms of currency. Begin trading your labor for other's labor or products. Begin trading in silver, gold or precious metals. They do not lose value. A gold coin in 1913 will buy the same amount of products today as it did back then.
Save for the future in commodities that have historically held value in hard times.
Save for the future.
Save for the future.
Save for the future.
Did I mention save for the future?
Do not use credit. See above.
Purchase only those things that you can afford with currency on hand, and always have a buffer savings.
Do not give anyone power over you, retain your own power.
Band together with your family, friends and community.
Purchase from your friends, family and community. Even if it is more expensive.
Engage in political discussion with everyone. You are either responsible for your own governance, or you are expecting others to do it for you.
Become as self sufficient as you can. Do not expect the government to give you anything. If you do, they have power over you.
If you do not like your local government representative, run against them or help someone that agrees with your position. Get involved in the government around you. Do not expect your government to be any different than the amount of energy you yourself, put into it. Do not only talk, act.
If you do not like your job, start your own business.

This is a start.

obama-policy, as an ongoing duplication of bush-policy in regards to the wars, finacial institutions and big-corporations, is the proof that the two-party system is elite-controlled and a complete scam allowing american voters no real say in the governance of our country. its clearly a one party system: we are being played by country-club insiders on boths sides of the left/right spectrum ...a grand drama, in which only their policies and choices come to fruition, and the people are divided and voting for flase-opposites.

obama gave us nothing he was elected to do. he appointed elite insiders across-the-board, the same people who caused so many problems under previous administrations, even though it was clear he was elected to bring foundational change. but what obama did do is HUGE. he taught us beyond a shadow of a doubt that the will of the people is irrelevant to one one-party rulers. if obama is bush, then they are all exposed.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


JPZ You hit the proverbial nail on the head my friend! I think there is no way to fix the current system. To many ignorant people. What needs to happen but is unlikely is a new system needs to be created and demonstrated. A shining city on a hill so to speak. People need to band together and take over a county put thier people in have thier sherrif proetect them from the feds and state etc. and implement a new real free market system. When others see it work they will follow suit.

Probably won't happen until the current system really crashes and burns and enough people feel enough pain Sad it has to come to that but there it is.

reply to post by hawkiye

People need to band together and take over a county put thier people in have thier sherrif proetect them from the feds and state etc. and implement a new real free market system. When others see it work they will follow suit.

There is an expression for this, my friend. That expression is; "Going Galt!" Who is John Galt? John Galt is the iconic and fictional hero of Atlas Shrugged, (I am not assuming you don't all ready know that, just clarifying for anyone reading this who doesn't), who organized a world strike of all the producers and creators of the world, and they all banded together, and created their own community, refusing to produce for all the "looters" of the world any longer, and simply producing for their own sakes, and satisfaction. What did this accomplish?

Probably won't happen until the current system really crashes and burns and enough people feel enough pain Sad it has to come to that but there it is.

John Galt stopped the motor of the world, and brought an end to the madness. It is long past time that we "go Galt".

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by projectvxn

 

when aliens land they'll bring a better form of government. 99% of the people here whining don't have 2 cents to rub together and have absolutely no power to change anything. so this thread is basically pointless.

Says the guy with the symbol of a failed system as his avatar.

You call it whining, and so would most statists. The rest of us are worried about our country and the role of government in our lives. We're also worried that the revolving door between Wall Street, K Street, and Pennsylvania Ave. is shortchanging the American people. These issues need to be discussed, and they need to be approached with maturity and clarity.

The least, and I mean the very least, that each and everyone of us can do, is on an individual basis. The best we can do is to band together, but that unity means nothing if our own individual efforts are not aiming towards the greater good.

What is the greater good? Quite simply, the greatest good to the greatest amount. Both left and right winged individuals, in their hearts, want this. The greatest good to the greatest amount. The difference lies in strategy and implementation. Socialists and communist, while many desire the greatest good to the greatest amount, their strategy is through a collective effort, their implementation inevitably becomes collectivism where the individual becomes secondary to the collective. Capitalists, and free market advocates also want the greatest good to the greatest amount, and their strategy is to let each individual freely compete in an open and unregulated marketplace. The implementation becomes a caveat emptor and laissez faire environment. While caveat emptor is used as an excuse to why Capitalism doesn't work, what seems to get lost on most who revile Capitalism is that under a heavily regulated market, caveat emptor remains the prudent strategy, and when one is not leery of what they purchase, all too often, these consumers are left feeling betrayed by the seller of the goods or services, as well as betrayed by the regulatory agencies mandated with protecting the consumer.

If we cannot contribute as individuals, it matters not how strong the collective is. Any group is as strong as its weakest link. Any hope invested in leaders such as Obama, or others who preceded him are what is known as "charismatic leaders". Hitler, Napoleon, and even Alexander the Great were charismatic leaders. Charismatic, in its simplest terms, is defined as being a personality trait of personal charm, and/or magnetism, of people who are able to arouse a fervent popular devotion, and enthusiasm. The waning enthusiasm regarding the devotion towards Obama underscores the problem with charismatic leaders.

Another problem with charismatic leaders is their own personal sense of mission, or purpose. Charismatic leaders tend to believe they were "chosen" to lead. By this I do not mean elected, but even under a democratic electoral process, long before this, these charismatic leaders believe they were chosen by some sort of divine right to lead. When a charismatic leader combines their personal belief with Machiavellian leadership, the problem becomes ever more compounded. A Machiavellian leader operates on the presumption that people are fundamentally weak, fallible, and gullible. The Machiavellian leader presumes that no one can be trusted, that other people are not anything more than impersonal objects who exist solely to be manipulated by that leader to achieve the ends of a goal that leader has established. The biggest problem with Machiavellian leaders is their fervent belief that the end justifies the means.

When one believes that the end justifies the means, if that end results in a bad end, rather than a good end, then the perception is that the end has not yet been achieved, and rather than change the means by which was used to produce the bad end, the Machiavellian leader will continue to employ the same means, stubbornly convinced that at some point these means will produce a good end. It matters not, to the Machiavellian leader, how unethical the means are, in their minds the end is ethical, therefore the ethics of the means are irrelevant. The converse to Machiavellian principles is that the means always justify the end. Thus, when a bad end is the result, we can go back and look at the means employed that brought about that bad end to better understand what went wrong, and when a good end is achieved, we can go back to look at the means employed to accomplish this good end, to better duplicate that end the next time we employ means.

The laissez faire leader, as opposed to a charismatic leader, (whether autocratic or democratic), takes an entirely different approach to the leadership role. The laissez faire leader does not involve them self in the day to day tasks of group decision making, instead trusting that the group can and will do the necessary job to achieve the greatest good to the greatest amount. The leadership role, in this context, is not leadership by force, but rather leadership through trust, and guidance only when needed. It is arguable that the laissez faire approach to leadership fosters a stronger group dynamic, encouraging more involvement from the group, and far less dependence upon the leader to accomplish what must be accomplished.

When we, as a nation/state look to charismatic leaders to handle the problems that come with a nation/state, it is not so difficult to predict that any failures that arise in that nation/state will be linked to the leader. The responsibility is placed upon the leader alone, and it is fairly easy to predict when such awesome responsibility is placed upon one person, that that person is doomed to fail, and if that person genuinely believes they were chosen to lead, it is also fairly easy to predict that at some point they will abandon democratic principles in favor a more autocratic and Machiavellian approach.

When we, as a nation/state look to laissez faire leaders to handle the problems that come with a nation/state, it is inherently understood that this leader is merely there to guide the various groups responsible for particular problems, and will only act when it becomes necessary to fix a problem created by a particular group, or praise a particular group for their success. The laissez faire leader has a tendency to follow the will of the people, and will only act when that will is antithetical to the nation/states best interest. In other words, a laissez faire leader will stay the hell out of the way and let people do what they do best, and will only intervene when that best has fallen short and the result is a problem that needs fixing.

As long as we the people keep looking towards charismatic leaders as the answer to our problems, the problems will just continue to multiply. If and when we the people decide to do what we can as individuals, accepting full responsibility for our own actions, and as much responsibility as we can bear to assume for others, then, and only then, will the problems begin to wane.

I have often heard it said that if the leaders would only lead, the people would surely follow. I am, and always have been of the mind that if the people would only lead, the leaders will surely follow.