9/11 The Myth and The Reality - David Ray Griffin

Good find,OP S&F for you! A great presentation by David Ray Griffin he makes good points about the entire day especially about the Zelikow commission Kean and Hamilton were just figureheads who did nothing just like the rest of the commissioners with him as executive director he and a small band of staffers decided what got investigated and what did not.Also,if History Commons timeline is so easily debunked then why do so many researchers praise it as a major source of information about 9/11? many of the families also vouch for it.

Originally posted by lambros56
This is a great post.
I think David Ray Griffin has been doing a great job.
I noticed Goodoldave was first off the mark to debunk this thread.
I dunno what he`s had to say this time because i just scroll past his post when i see his name.
Whats the point in arguing with him and the other usual suspects.
Nothing will ever change their minds.......Nothing.
Anyone with common sense knows the American government had knowledge.
Still our soldiers die and innocent people are being slaughtered.
Wake up America......someone is controlling your government!

So this guy doesn't even bother to read what the opposition is saying and then us accuses *us* of refusing to listen because "nothing will change *our* minds".

Some times all you can really do is shake your head in wonder. I'd laugh if it wasn't causing so much unnecessary mischief;

"The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught."
H.L. Mencken

There is a very good reason why the people responsible for 911 send their subordinates out to attack those that seek the truth. The truth would strip the "moral" tag from the men truly guilty. But, this is how THEY see it, for they already have NO honor, their morality exists only as pins on their suits, affirmation from others without honor.
They are empty shells, avatars without substance, these frauds are nothing but corporations.

Originally posted by Stewie
"The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught."
H.L. Mencken

There is a very good reason why the people responsible for 911 send their subordinates out to attack those that seek the truth. The truth would strip the "moral" tag from the men truly guilty. But, this is how THEY see it, for they already have NO honor, their morality exists only as pins on their suits, affirmation from others without honor.
They are empty shells, avatars without substance, these frauds are nothing but corporations.

Nice flowery prose you've presented here, but none of it contradicts the fact that David Ray Griffin has been shown to be a con artist of the likes of Dylan Avery with his deliberate misrepresentations (I.E. some of the hijackers are still alive, the Pentagon had anti-aircraft weaponry), relying on unproven and unprovable statements (I.E. Bin Laden's kidney issues, the Saudi rolay family supporting the hijackers), and outright lies (I.E. there were only small fires burning in WTC 7, all the steel was immediately shipped overseas). It likewise doesn't contradict the fact you people are insisting on relying on this con artist despite the fact it's been pointed out to you that he's a con artist multiple times. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, applies to you just as it does everyone else.

I'm sorry, but the paltry excuse of "we're empty shells, avatars without substance" doesn't even remotely excuse your unrepentent intellectual dishonesty anymore. This willful refusal to do even the most elementary of homework on your own conspiracy claims is the very reason why the truther movement suffers from such acute credibility problems. Ignore the fact at your own cost.

Hoply crap! The whole army is here, including Genradek! Wow. Again, the speed at which the disinfo army romps in is a clue to how powerful this post is to finally exposing the truth behind 9/11.

David Ray Griffin presents very well - it is suggested watching (and reading - he has published quite a few books).
Personally, I am against religion, but I did give hime time, and the time was worthwhile.

All in all, given the amazing overage by the disinfo army, this is clearly a MUST WATCH.

reply to post by hmmmbeer


Nothing new right its always like that i don't even bother replying anymore its a waste of time to argue with them.


BTW cheers

Originally posted by knowneedtoknow
reply to post by hmmmbeer

 

Nothing new right its always like that i don't even bother replying anymore its a waste of time to argue with them.

Well, what did you expect to happen? You conspiracy people are incessantly presenting the same tired falsehoods that have been debunked time after time, from "no interceptors were scrambled" to "the hijackers were still alive after 9/11" to "all the steel was immediately shipped overseas". NOW, you're dredging up David Ray Griffin all over again, despite the fact that he's a religious, "no planes" kook. Even his fellow conspiracy theorists I.E. Dr. Judy Wood aren't taking him seriously.

The problem isn't with us. The problem is with you people thinking that repeating a lie over and over will somehow make it into the truth. Why do you think I use "Aw, Jeez, not this crap again" in my avatar?

reply to post by hmmmbeer


SO I take it that when you want to go and have open heart surgery, you will go to a mechanical engineer with a PhD then correct? Or if you want to have brain surgery you will go to a rocket scientist? After all they all have PhDs.

Why? Because that is essentially what you are saying, since Griffin has a doctorate in THEOLOGY, somehow that makes him an expert on mechanical engineering, metallurgy, architectural designs of high rises, fire science, aeronautics, military procedure, and others. WoW!

Griffin is a joke and is taking on subjects which are so far away from his "profession" that he has no right to be ANY authority on the subjects on 9/11, well save for the role of religion and Islam in the events on 9/11, and why they happened. But outside of that, I wouldnt want him to be an authority on building a skyscraper, fire sciences, or anything else relevant with 9/11.

reply to post by GenRadek


LOL OMG is so funny that you say that, hold on let see at the 9/11 commission director PHD OK

Philip David Zelikow.
Executive summary: 9-11 Commission executive director

University: BA History and Political Science, University of Redlands, Redlands, CA
University: JD, University of Houston, Houston, TX
University: MA, Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University
University: PhD, Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University

lol he is a historian / Political Science / PHD in Law and Diplomacy how do you investigate the 9/11 with that WOW that is worst then to go see a car mechanic for a brain operation c'mon your so funny PHD in Law and Diplomacy to investigate the 9/11 so i am suppose to believe him rigth. Let me ask you Is 9/11 too far from his profession to, And specially 9/11 is so important why did they take this dude hi is a JOKE

SOURCE: www.nndb.com...

reply to post by knowneedtoknow


Hmm, well if you knew what the 9/11 Commission was for, you would see that for that investigation, an understanding of law, diplomacy, political science, are necessary to figure out what went wrong in the processes within our intel, security, agencies. Geeze, if you are going to try and make a comeback, at least understand what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by knowneedtoknow
lol he is a historian / Political Science / PHD in Law and Diplomacy how do you investigate the 9/11 with that WOW that is worst then to go see a car mechanic for a brain operation c'mon your so funny

PHD in Law and Diplomacy to investigate the 9/11 so i am suppose to believe him rigth. Let me ask you Is 9/11 too far from his profession to, And specially 9/11 is so important why did they take this dude hi is a JOKE

You are deliberately being fast and loose with your facts and we both know it. The 9/11 commission didn't do any scientific analysis or physical examinations. All the did is hold sessions and listen to eyewitnesses and try to put a picture together from it, whcih Congress does almost on a daily basis with their nonstop committees and junkets. OTOH asking David Ray Griffin for his scientific opinion when having a scientific background would be an anathema to his field of expertise is laughable at best, and outright deceptive behavior at worst. Gen. Radeks's point is still valid.

Let's face it, the only reason you're siding in with that religious nut is becuase he's saying things that you want to be true. The fact that your conspiracy movement is entirely faith based couldn't be more obvious if you lit it up in neon lights.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by knowneedtoknow



Nothing new right its always like that i don't even bother replying anymore its a waste of time to argue with them.

Well, what did you expect to happen? You conspiracy people are incessantly presenting the same tired falsehoods that have been debunked time after time

GoodOlDave

Falsehoods WOW hold on you don't know nothing. How can you say that the only falsehood is your signature
" IT WAS NOT AN INSIDE JOB"

YES IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB you know why maybe i don't know if it was EXPLOSIVES or a PARTICAL BEAM WEAPON or a LASER BEAM FROM THE MOON OK

But one thing that i know for sure it was an inside job you know why. "BUSH SAID THIS" explosives high enough to keep people trapped above from escaping.

JUST THAT IT MEANS IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB do you get that . What you gonna tell me that what after the planes did hit the 2 WCT they run through 20 miles of stairs to plant explosives in 1 hour.

.So for sure they had to preplant the explosives before September 11 2001

VIDEO TO PROVE JUST THAT SO YES IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB i don't need more to know that it was a inside job. Debunk that

So you always make a fool out of yourself GoodOlDave i really hope that ATSers will notice that

Bush talks about EXPLOSIVES in building (on 9/11?)



The only Al Qaeda that i know of is the corrupt USA administration.

Not everybody need to hear that 3 time to understand

Hillary Clinton-US Created Al Qaeda Trained, Armed, and Funded them Too

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by knowneedtoknow
lol he is a historian / Political Science / PHD in Law and Diplomacy how do you investigate the 9/11 with that WOW that is worst then to go see a car mechanic for a brain operation c'mon your so funny

PHD in Law and Diplomacy to investigate the 9/11 so i am suppose to believe him rigth. Let me ask you Is 9/11 too far from his profession to, And specially 9/11 is so important why did they take this dude hi is a JOKE

You are deliberately being fast and loose with your facts and we both know it. The 9/11 commission didn't do any scientific analysis or physical examinations. All the did is hold sessions and listen to eyewitnesses and try to put a picture together from it.

Listen to eyewitnesses and try to put a picture together from it.

I didn't know that dead people can talk
you mean all the key eyewitnesses that they did kill right

Like Deborah Palfrey she went on Alex Jones shows that she had proof to expose the gouvenmnet and Alex ask her do you plant to suicide your self she said NO but her mother found her hanging with a nylon rope. RIGHT

watch the video but the Deborah Palfrey Starts at 5:50 and its even passing on the news that they find her dead hanging whit a nylon rope

911 WITNESSES MURDERED