9/11 The Myth and The Reality - David Ray Griffin

This is something different from the 9/11 collapse videos. This video
is about the myths and lies expose in the official story NIST NORAD and more this is some good
knowledge for everyone how has alot of unanswered question, but it just raised more question. Like why in the US history ther is alot of False flag ops

I cant afford to watch this it will consume my enitre data allowence for a month. Is there a shorter version?

cheers

Originally posted by bussoboy
I cant afford to watch this it will consume my enitre data allowence for a month. Is there a shorter version?

cheers

Yes there is, actually- the forums here at ATS. All the intentional misrepresentations, unprovable claims, and outright lies being posted here in support of these conspiracy stories that have been debunked time after time after time (I.E. the hijackers are still alive, no Arab names appear on the flight manifests, all the steel was immediately shipped overseas, the Pentagon had anti-aircraft weapons, WTC 7 only had small fires, etc) are simply being repeated by him. I'll wager that much if it is coming FROM him. There is nothing he says that you won't find here.

If that isn't bad enough, he's now starting to slide into the "no planes" camp, which even the most hard core, "the gov't is out to murder us all" truthers don't accept. Out of all the possible sources to be quoting, his is one of the most dubious.

Remember goodoldave syndrome
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lol i see nothing has changed
and you still have a huge fetish with 9/11 and nothing else

Originally posted by blankduck18
Remember goodoldave syndrome
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lol i see nothing has changed
and you still have a huge fetish with 9/11 and nothing else

Seeing that I received thirteen stars and six flags for that post, it must have had *some* credibility to it...and the reason I only post here is simple- I know little to nothing about JFK assassination conspiracies, the Jewish World Order conspiracies, UFO conspiracies, chemtrail conspiracies, or any of that. I *would* post in a "moon landing was a hoax" conspiracy forum but I don't see one here.

This is neither here nor there. I'll ask the same thing I ask everywhere else- what did I post here that was incorrect?

reply to post by knowneedtoknow


In defense of sanity and rational thinking....STOP with the "David Ray Griffin" junk, please.

The man has zero credibility on this topic, as he lacks the training in the disciplines involved. Look up his actual field of knowledge.....it isn't in the sciences. So, what is his actual field of study and experience?? RELIGION!!!

David Ray Griffin (born 1939) is an American retired professor of philosophy of religion and theology. Along with John B. Cobb, Jr., he founded the Center for Process Studies in 1973, a research center of Claremont School of Theology which seeks to promote the common good by means of the relational approach found in process thought.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also, it isn't only MY opinion regarding Griffin, it is the opinion shared by many other reasoning, rational individuals:

ScrewLoose Change: Debunking David Ray Griffin

Ryan Mackey debunks David Ray Griffin

He also is (or at least once was, may still be) a "believer" in the "no planes theory"....a concept widely rejected, even in the majority of "Truth Movement" camps, and that crowd dwell in a very tiny backwater of crackpot ideas....

It has often been observed that, like many who "believe" in a religion...a religion is usually based on nothing of substantial evidence, and usually ignores science and critical thinking...many who flock to the numerous "conspiracy" theories that abound also exhibit similar traits. That is, "believing" strongly, regardless of evidence (or lack of evidence) to contrary, or (in support) of the "belief".

It would be an interesting study to undertake, the psychological aspects of this phenomenon. I've heard of the book "Voodoo Histories", but haven't had chance to read yet.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


13 stars 6 flags after a half year
thats some credibility
seeing i was the last one to respond the day it was made

This is kinda funny coming from someone like yourself
makes me think about the credibility of anything else you post
all tho i have already proved that you use multiple accounts here

When this is presented www.911timeline.net...

Well,,,lets just say it is a hairline fracture to being unbunkable. The debunkers tell you that an orange is really an apple.

Sure the orange and apple are both round but they taste very different and one you have to actually peel to eat and one contains more water than the other.

I haven't reviewed David Griffin's credentials, but I don't think that's what we're supposed to be looking at. Griffin is suggesting that the 9/11 commission report is inconsistent with the facts of the 9/11 event. I'm sure that's what every truther can agree with and truthers are made up of more than theologists, there are civil engineers, control demolition experts, architects, pilots, physicists and so on. So Griffin's background shouldn't be an issue, he's simply a voice in the movement, much like a representative is to a district. It doesn't mean that they are expected to be aware of each and every technicality of every issue that they are lobbying for.

Originally posted by blankduck18
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

13 stars 6 flags after a half year
thats some credibility
seeing i was the last one to respond the day it was made
This is kinda funny coming from someone like yourself
makes me think about the credibility of anything else you post
all tho i have already proved that you use multiple accounts here

A) It's an obsolete thread and I sincerely doubt anyone is reading it anymore, so the only one who's still making much ado over it here is you. You DO know this is a "David Ray Griffin" thread, now, right?

B) The mark of credibility isn't over the popularity of the material anyone posts. The mark of credibility is over whether anyone else can show why it's wrong. If even one thing I said was a lie then you conspiracy people would be all over me like Rosie O'Donnell on a chocolate cake, and you know as well as I do that hasn't happened. In fact here's your chance right now- what did I ever post that was false?

C) This "I'm posting under multiple" IDs is a delusion of your own making. If you don't believe anything else I say, then at least believe this: I don't need to play such children's games so this is the only ID I use here. Where the heck did THAT come from, anyway?

...and I wil ask AGAIN...what did I post about David Ray Griffin that's a lie? Are you saying Griffin *isn't* starting to push out "no plane" theories?

Originally posted by laiguana
I haven't reviewed David Griffin's credentials, but I don't think that's what we're supposed to be looking at. Griffin is suggesting that the 9/11 commission report is inconsistent with the facts of the 9/11 event. I'm sure that's what every truther can agree with and truthers are made up of more than theologists, there are civil engineers, control demolition experts, architects, pilots, physicists and so on. So Griffin's background shouldn't be an issue, he's simply a voice in the movement, much like a representative is to a district. It doesn't mean that they are expected to be aware of each and every technicality of every issue that they are lobbying for.

edit on 27-10-2010 by laiguana because: (no reason given)

Actually, no he isn't. The supposed "lies" he accuses the 9/11 Commission report of aren't even lies, but either topics they were never set up to examine to begin with (I.E. whether Air Force one had a fighter escort when it left Florida), or criticisms based upon statements which have no proof to back up (I.E. Bin Laden's Kidney issues) or are wrong to begin with (WTC 7 had small isolated fires). Here is one sterling boneheaded lie he claims to have identified, in his own words:

"The omission of the fact that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel — that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel — made no sense in this case"

It is an irrefutable fact that police, firefighters, rescue workers, etc were everywhere on the WTC site and when WTC 7 collapsed there was the very real possibility that some of these personnel might have been trapped in the wreckage when it came down. Noone but a thoroughly heartless ghoul...or Griffin, apparently...would simply shrug and brush off looking through the wreckage of WTC 7 for the possibility there may be survivors. A trapped firefighter's life is just as valuable as a trapped office worker's life, isn't it?

If the truther movement wished to know more about what really happened on 9/11, fine, there isn't anything wrong with that, but in doing so you people need to know who you should turn to for your information, and just as importantly, who you shouldn't.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Now weedwhacker, dont you know that a professor in religion and theology is much more knowledgable in mechanical engineering, structural engineering, fire sciences, metallurgists, than those that worked on NIST's team. Did you know that theologians are given intense engineering classes during their education for such work?



Hey weedwhacker, would you like a person with a PhD in structural engineering doing your heart surgery, instead of a Medical PhD heart surgeon? After all, he is a doctor, just like the heart surgeon. Shouldnt all people with PhDs be able to work in hospitals?

theres over 1300 and no one listens to them
so whats your point?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by blankduck18
Remember goodoldave syndrome
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lol i see nothing has changed
and you still have a huge fetish with 9/11 and nothing else

Seeing that I received thirteen stars and six flags for that post, it must have had *some* credibility to it...and the reason I only post here is simple- I know little to nothing about JFK assassination conspiracies, the Jewish World Order conspiracies, UFO conspiracies, chemtrail conspiracies, or any of that. I *would* post in a "moon landing was a hoax" conspiracy forum but I don't see one here.

This is neither here nor there. I'll ask the same thing I ask everywhere else- what did I post here that was incorrect?

WHAT did you say "it must have had *some* credibility to it" not you don't yo just have the official story in text.
So if you know nothing about JFK NWO UFO maybe you should leave the 9/11 threads your full time job and go to the UFO/alien thread you would know that the moon hoax was posted like 7 years ago.

On ATS there is more then just the 9/11 conspiracies thread so ya.
Maybe if you would learn that USA had alot of Fals flag ops you would accept the fact that 9/11 was an inside job
LIKE THE USS LIBERTY

This is a great post.
I think David Ray Griffin has been doing a great job.
I noticed Goodoldave was first off the mark to debunk this thread.
I dunno what he`s had to say this time because i just scroll past his post when i see his name.
Whats the point in arguing with him and the other usual suspects.
Nothing will ever change their minds.......Nothing.
Anyone with common sense knows the American government had knowledge.
Still our soldiers die and innocent people are being slaughtered.
Wake up America......someone is controlling your government!

Originally posted by knowneedtoknow
WHAT did you say "it must have had *some* credibility to it" not you don't yo just have the official story in text.
So if you know nothing about JFK NWO UFO maybe you should leave the 9/11 threads your full time job and go to the UFO/alien thread you would know that the moon hoax was posted like 7 years ago.

...in which case you are lying and you never actually read any of my posts. I have said many times that there's a cover up and there is definitely more to what happened on 9/11 than what the gov't is admitting to. The difference is that I know it's a coverup of a lot of monumental incompetence and foul ups, while you want to think there's some sinister secret gov't plot to murder us all. The only person slavishly chained to propaganda here seems to be you.

...and since that other fellow doesn't want to answer the question, I'll ask *you*: what in any of my posts has ever been shown to be false? It's a very simple question to answer, and yet every time I ask this everyone runs away like three card monty peddlers do when the cops show up.

How about answering this one simple question- are you denying that David Ray Griffin is a "no planer"?

On ATS there is more then just the 9/11 conspiracies thread so ya.

So if you don't like the fact that I stay on this forum and don't visit any of the others, then too bad for you. You forget that I am not subject to your rules of debate. You and I are both subject to ATS' rules of debate, and they have no rules that say I'm required to post gibberish in other forums simply for the sake of posting in multipler forums.

Goodoldave do i have your permission to post a complete thread about you?
I will be more then glad too

Originally posted by blankduck18
Goodoldave do i have your permission to post a complete thread about you?
I will be more then glad too

?????

That's sounds pretty creepy, dude, but It's not up to me, it's up to the ATS moderators, and it's a given THEY will want to know whether posting a "complete thread about me" will help you prove your controlled demolitions/cruise missiles/no planes/whatever conspiracy claims in any way. If so, go for it.

reply to post by superluminal11


Im sorry, but that timeline is one of the more moronic things I have read in regards to 9/11. Its full of blarney, assumption and...well...lies.

The "official" CNN manifests.....werent manifests, they were the lists of the victims. Why dont the manifests match up to the total deaths?? Because you dont put the CREW on the manifest.

The seating capacity of the flights.......was about NORMAL for those flights.

Odds are there were many planes on patrol just off shore.....this guy needs to stay away from Vegas. Odds are, at that time on a Tuesday morning...there werent ANY planes "on patrol" just off shore.

Ugh...I could go on, but most of you get the point.

reply to post by blankduck18

Goodoldave do i have your permission to post a complete thread about you?
I will be more then glad too

Make a YouTube movie, you'll have a larger potential audience. Hey, you can even put a soundtrack that makes you think you're in the new Da Vinci Code movie when you make random accusations about how many babies GoodOlDave consumes to fuel his disinfo-agent / human form and prevent from showing his true reptilian form.