I need help from Muslim users.

I have stumbled across a site that tries to connect all major religions to mother Goddes worship, and it does a pretty convincing job. Although I would not like it to be true. There is a specific section that I would like Muslim users to read and debunk. It takes the Muqatta'at and says that they are codes for the Goddess, and related them to the names of the chapters that they are beside.

Please go down to the section that starts after it says "END". The part that starts with "The next Way chapter will be the last in the Messiah Project series"

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

I really appreciate it, and hope that it can be debunked. I don't want any theories or comments on what they really mean, I just want this conclusion debunked.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


I'm not a Muslim and I'm not understanding your question. But If you want to understand Islam and compare it to the site you provided then I'll help you on that.

Understanding Islam and Muslims
Understanding Islam

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


I am saying that I would like Muslim users to debunk the claims being made on the site I linked to.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


Muslims, Christians, and Jews do not worship a Goddess. Seems the site is more new age belief trying to explain aliens as the origins of religion. Am I right?

reply to post by NamelessMonster

I am almost completely certain someone had linked that site here before, and I had checked it out before....was it you?

I shall investigate!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Pretty much. It is basically saying that it has the true message that has been covered up or lost. But what is interesting is that a lot of the connections it makes are true, just not the strange alien stuff. What the site claims overall is most certainly bunk, but I am wondering about a lot of connections, and what they would imply.

reply to post by babloyi


You are correct. I would like special attention given to this specific section, and I thought it owuld be easier to get Muslim users if I did this. Thanks a lot for the help.

There is a section on the site that tries to connect Islam by using the "Our Lady of Fatima" event to connect Muhammad's daughter Fatima to the Goddess Fatima, and connect it to Christianity, which it claims worships the mother Goddess. I can post that later. Right now this is all I want help with.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


Well I'm religious and my cousin is an Atheist. He has shown me sights where men and maybe women of different faiths influenced different cultures and religions. But their religions do differ. He believes religion and God(s) are man made.

I am Muslim. Give me a day or so.

tt

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


What it claims would go beyond coincidence, I think. But I coudl be wrong. There are sections that I would like some Christians to look at and explain as well. Try to find the thread I made about the site as a whole by searching "Doma collective". Make sure to check the one in the religion section, not aliens.

It WAS you!


I think I even replied to that thread, and my reply still stands. As I mentioned in the previous thread, the whole point of that quoted site is flipped on its head when the author says "It must be read like ancient Hebrew was read, from right to left. I will reverse it now, so you can better read it. "Mim-Lam-Alif.""

The author then uses the same method again in another verse. The problem here is that arabic is already read from right to left, and WHILE READING from right to left, it says alif-lam-mim, not mim-lam-alif. The first line of the verse that the author references is: الٓمٓ

ا = Aleph
لٓ = Lam
ٓمٓ = Mim

reply to post by babloyi


Thanks a bunch. Could you check out the section on Fatima and the Goddess now?


www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Go to the part that says "It is amazing to look back on the formation of Christianity and, Islam"

There are also some other interesting parallels to Mary and even Ishtar and her weeping for Tammuz (who is basically the same entity as Isis) with the Shia Islam beyond just sharing the name of a Goddess. I know that this doesn't mean the Quran teaches it, but it is still interesting how the parralels are.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikibooks.org...

Maybe the Shia muslims just absorbed the pagan practices and are going against what the Quran said. Fatima really is just a common Arabic name. This is most likely just coincidence and influence, nothing deeper.

few people are strong enough to stand on earth alone. i believe there is something in our genetic code or within us to search and find God.

thats why the bible makes perfect sense. when man was kicked out of eden, ie lost his connection to God, we wandered the earth with an echo of what once we were a part of. as societies formed they tried desperately to find what we once lost.

so misguidedly we worshiped everything that we thought was God because we were blinded as punishment. God through the years took pity on us and our sufferings and decided to reveal himself to us again. He chose the jewish people to show the world again that He alone is God and we should worship Him and get closer to Him instead of eagles and the sun or moon.

God still to that point had not completely forgiven man. He then decided to send His Son, to atone for our sins so that whoever choses can freely be close to Him and can be saved from the hell of wandering the earth alone and scared. that is the basis of my religion.

reply to post by randomname


But how is that related to my thread?

Anyway, babloyi. Would any of the codes still stand even with it read that way?

Originally posted by NamelessMonster
I have stumbled across a site that tries to connect all major religions to mother Goddes worship, and it does a pretty convincing job. Although I would not like it to be true. There is a specific section that I would like Muslim users to read and debunk. It takes the Muqatta'at and says that they are codes for the Goddess, and related them to the names of the chapters that they are beside.

Please go down to the section that starts after it says "END". The part that starts with "The next Way chapter will be the last in the Messiah Project series"

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

I really appreciate it, and hope that it can be debunked. I don't want any theories or comments on what they really mean, I just want this conclusion debunked.

edit on 27-10-2010 by NamelessMonster because: (no reason given)

Mysticism has always, and continues to, enjoy popularity because of it's emotional appeal. Some say that our minds' inclination to "wondering" is what is behind the beginnings of all religions. Now the religious adherent will probably not agree saying that a prophet clearly was involved with what they believe. The world has many religions. None of them are in perfection. Why? Because we live in an imperfect world. They must, by necessity, be short of any absolute truths or they could not be comprehended by man on earth. This is the reason that faith is so necessary.

Through all these centuries of religious growth mysticism has remained. There are those who theorize that this is due to some inherited genetic memories from the early days of humankind. If this is so then one can readily see how it remains vital even in the minds of those who are very religious. Of course one may take it seriously or playfully as he chooses. Or, one may rise in confrontational anger and condemn it as being of Shaytan (Satan).

We all have a certain ability to visualize. If we had the desire to do so it would be easy enough to weave together all the religious stories into a single text which would purport to not only explain but also underlay them all. When this is the object we can see how the result might well cause doubts in the minds of the believers. Then we assign goddesses as necessary authoritarian figures and the construction is complete. This is what has been done. Remember though that we are natural born story tellers. One needs only a reason to conjure up what he/she requires. Using numbers and letters and by devising a grid we could spin a web in any area of life. We could do it with commerce or politics or geography. We could be quite convincing when we then claimed that star visitors were the authors and this is their code. Why a star visitor would need a code when they meant no harm is never considered. But secretiveness and mysticism go together like peas in a pod.

Why, might be the question. Why try to dilute the beliefs of others by suggesting that those are only akin to masks of a greater reality? I will suggest here that a general motive might well be a desire to assist us all in a higher, truer understanding of the nature of our history. I believe though that it is a mistake to do this. Why, I ask, would it be a good thing for us to know that certain races of men/women came here from the stars and gave humanity a leg up so long ago? Would not those same people counsel charity, humility, honesty and generosity? Surely these are taught by religions even though they do all seem to have a darker side to them?

Read then and be entertained or amused or repulsed as you like. Do not, however, allow your mind to stray from the necessary level of discipline which is so carefully nurtured through the years of religious practice. Give the entire topic no more of your time than it takes to peruse and judge. Do not allow uncertainties to erode your religious faith.

Assalamu Aikum

tt

__________

Lol, is all I can say,
I read through the site and come to the conclusion that it is a misinformation tactic possibly put out by a morons sect based in u.s.
Basically it says
#1) it claims that humans are the creators (home pg.1)
#2) that u.s. is our savior (pg.1)
. . . enough said, Lol, for one most religions
are based on the foundation of ONE creator and us as being
the created. (not the other way around)
As for the so called code, it's pulling at straws

_______________

reply to post by NamelessMonster


This is a direct quote from the article:

It must be read like ancient Hebrew was read, from right to left. I will reverse it now, so you can better read it. "Mim-Lam-Alif."

The author of that article based his entire "analysis" of Islam upon a false claim. Hebrew and Arabic both belong to the Semitic Family of language and are scripted right-to-left. This applies to both modern and ancient forms. The Qur'an is written in Classical Arabic, the letters "Alif, Lam, Mim" are already written right to left.

Was his "discovery" reliant on the incorrect "It must be read like ancient Hebrew was read," statement, or by simply reversing the letters and reading them left-to-right like modern English is read?

_________________________________________

The DOMA had learned a lesson with Christianity. They saw their message changed by the pens of men. They saw entire new philosophies simply inserted. So that they would not have the same kind of problem with the Koran, the put in a code at the beginning of each book. This code would identify those from the original source.

This is incorrect because the chapters of the Qur'an starting with the "DOMA codes" do not contain information different from the rest of the Qur'an. The "Cow" chapter the article used as reference states many things found throughout the entirety of the Qur'an. The "Cow" chapter even talks about Jihad in the way of Allah.

If the "DOMA coded" chapters were the only "original source" chapters, why do they go on and on about Allah and how to be a Muslim instead of talkig about goddess worship or moon worship? Seems to me the article is making false claims. The article says the "code" letter chapters are significant to his "theory," yet he can not quote a single verse within those chapters to support his claim.

__________________________________

________________________________________

The author of the article also said;

This is why her symbols, the Crescent Moon and the Star, still are sacred to them.

This is also a falsity. At the time Muhammad was leading the Muslim people, he did not ordain any symbol for Islamic representation. The flags his army carried were simply solid colored. Solid white, solid black, solid green, and solid red. The flags of Muhammad and his army had no writing, no depictions, and no symbols on them.

The crescent moon and star symbol was not adopted into Islam until after the Turkish Ottoman Empire gained control of the Islamic empire. Islam had no affiliation with the symbol during the first 659 years after it's founding.

It is forbidden in Islam to have such a symbol. Muhammad actually broke the statue dedicated to the moon god. Allah in the Qur'an says;

Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, chasing it rapidly; and the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds. (7:54)

Moon worship is out of the question! 1.) Muhammad destroyed the moon god statue. 2.) Allah says He created the moon and all of existence.


The article made for an interesting read, but his analysis and presentation were both incorrect and misleading.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


The article is now claiming Muhammad had a Holy Grail to pass on esoteric knowledge?

Another lie and false claim by the author:

The DOMA chose the bloodline of Mahammad by his mother's lineage

Muhammad traces his lineage through his father:

Muhammad bin ‘Abdullah bin ‘Abdul-Muttalib (who was called Shaiba) bin Hashim, (named ‘Amr) bin ‘Abd Munaf (called Al-Mugheera) bin Qusai (also called Zaid) bin Kilab bin Murra bin Ka‘b bin Lo’i bin Ghalib bin Fahr (who was called Quraish and whose tribe was called after him) bin Malik bin An-Nadr (so called Qais) bin Kinana bin Khuzaiman bin Mudrikah (who was called ‘Amir) bin Elias bin Mudar bin Nizar bin Ma‘ad bin ‘Adnan.

"bin" is Arabic for "son of". According to Muhammad's documented lineage, he is the son of Abdullah, who is the son of Abdul Muttalib, and so forth.

Arabs do not trace lineage through the female line. This is also evident in the fact that Muhammad had no living sons, so Muslims that believed in a holy bloodline chose Muhammad's nephews as leaders instead of Muhammad's daughters.
__________________________________________


What exactly was I supposed to comment regarding Our Lady of Fatima?

Muhammad and the Qur'an specifically state that Muhammad is the final messenger and that Allah's religion is complete. In Islamic standards, a "ghost" (Lady of Fatima) claiming to be giving information and prophecy about the future is a blasphemy.

Muhammad didn't elevate his bloodline to that of nobility or kingship. He actually appointed his best friend to lead the Muslims, not a family member.

reply to post by Sahabi


Great posts, thanks. This really shows how sloppy and thrown together this woman's theories are.
It gets more complicated on the site and claims that there is only one God to be worshipped. The mother Goddess. But there are her servants, which are known as Isis and such.

Another problem is that she must have missed the part where the supposed apparition at Fatima gave a blatantly Christian message that had no releation to what this site promotes.


Tomorrow I will post something where she used writings by the Sabians (mentioned as one of the people of the books in the Quran) to back up her claims of the mother Goddess connection. It's not looking so good for her right now, though.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


Hey Nameless:

Here is a list of all the "code" letters in the Quran:
The complete Muqatta'at letters and their appearance in the Quran

None of them seem to be relatable to any of the "prayers" or "codes" that website mentioned. And if there is no reason to read them backwards, why should they be read backwards?


As far as the Fatima-Mary connection goes...it the site doesn't really make any real claims that can be pointed out...just opinions.