The Sphinx Origins and a Final Link to Pre-Dynastic Egypt

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by Byrd

 

Sorry Byrd i know this is one of your old replies but again that phrase about the guardian of the Atmosphere stood out to me.

How did the Egyptians know of an Atmosphere? Although translation plays a part in this, i still wonder how they were aware of an Atmosphere??

That's a translation artifact. Shu is the guardian of air/wind/breathable stuff. "Atmosphere" was what the translator put in.

reply to post by Byrd


oh ok thanks, i was guessing thats what it may have been.

reply to post by Harte


Then we can agree a bit!
My point was the comparison of the cultures.
What was contained in the library is anyone's guess.
I'm not entirely convinced that Herodotus is any proof of the Egyptians knowledge, or lack-thereof, the buildings of the pyramids, or pertinent to this thread, the Sphinx.
It would seem that this knowledge was not known
or
it's secret has been vehemently protected, although by now it seems even that trace of our past was lost. Leaving us to conjecture nowadays, as we're all doing right here.

reply to post by skylightsintheillions


I'm gonna interject... Harte is kinda stubborn ( no offence Harte ) but you are.

Which is fine, he/she stands up for their beleifs. Although i have found no matter how much reserach or information you provide it doesnt matter. If you dont fit in with those beleifs....then you are wrong.

It's funny coz it's stuff like this, that had stunted and stopped science and people being heard or listened too.

I am not saying everything in this thread is correct, although it's a theory and has some evidence that supports it ( not definate ) but all the same it helps. Some people are so stubborn in their beliefs that no matter what you present it will not matter.

reposted due to characterset borking dureing editing.

The image you posted of the 2 opposing lions and horizon:
this is not really the symbol for horizon,i think this is "/\_/\" your image shows the sun as dark and below the horizon which imo can only refer to the underworld which makes the lions out of place or time,andas annother poster pointed out it would be more applicable for Anubis-Ra to be placed at the site origionaly with its face,faceing to Ra-Ra chaseing him accross the sky.

Whather the egyptians has astrological zodiacal chrts is debateable,but consider this.
When moses left egypt the bull was being worshiped.when he decended fom the mountain with the 10 commandments (which were the in fact life rules for the jounrney accross the underworld,from the "Book of the Dead") and saw his arron and the people had built a gold statue of a bull he went mad,smashed the tablets and ordered the construct of a ram statue,because the day of the bull had passed (day-era-2560 year zodiacal procession) and was now the day of the ram.if you follow the zodiac you will see Jesus came in the day of the fish piscies.Co-incedence,or something more intrigueing??? you decide.

The great Pyramid,was never a tomb,it has no tomb paintings,and no mummies ever found within or within the sarcophagus.or did some grave robbers remove the 20tonne granite block covering the sarcophagus,remove the body,then politly replace the block perfectly,as robbers do;not to offend the gods or the house owners?

(sorry for the double post.editing borked my horizon symbol?????)

reply to post by hrmmm


I'm not gonna add too much to your reply except post actual information about the horizon symbol.....

In Egyptian mythology, Aker (also spelt Akar) was one of the earliest gods worshipped, and was the deification of the horizon.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/db8942d2f570.jpg[/atsimg]

As the horizon, Aker was also seen as symbolic of the borders between each day, and so was originally depicted as a narrow strip of land (i.e. a horizon), with heads on either side, facing away from one another, a symbol of borders. Since the sun reaches its peak (its solstice) in the zodiac of Leo, these heads were usually those of lions. Over time, the heads became full figures of lions (still facing away from each other), one representing the concept of yesterday (Sef in Egyptian), and the other the concept of tomorrow (Duau in Egyptian).

Aker(God) - Wiki

''Akhet'' - The Horizon

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b13eeee29ca.jpg[/atsimg]


This symbol represents the horizon from which the sun emerged and disappeared. The horizon thus embodied the idea of both sunrise and sunset.

Source

So are you saying the symbol isn't representing the horizon? It is an easy mistake to misinterpret it as the sun....

no im not saying it dont represent the horizon. I am saying it represents the underworld because of the line at the top,signifying the sun below the horizon
Also,your symbol is "Djew" note the open cartuche either side with the circle within the circle on 1 side is "sun has risen" and on the other side/lion "sun has fallen"

"Djew"
Which means mountain, the symbol suggests two peaks with the Nile valley in the middle. The Egyptians believed that there was a cosmic mountain range that held up the heavens. This mountain range had two peaks, the western peak was called Manu, while the eastern peak was called Bakhu. It was on these peaks that heaven rested. Each peak of this mountain chain was guarded by a lion deity, who's job it was to protect the sun as it rose and set. The mountain was also a symbol of the tomb and the afterlife, probably because most Egyptian tombs were located in the mountainous land bordering the Nile valley. In some texts we find Anubis, the gaurdian of the tomb being referred to as "He who is upon his mountain." Sometimes we find Hathor takeing on the attributes of a deity of the afterlife, at this time she is called "Mistress of the Necropolis." She is rendered as the head of a cow protruding from a mountainside.

www.crystalinks.com...

note each peak was guarded by a lion deity.so the symbol you posted is incorrect,unless it actually represents the underworld,,imo.
if the sphinx is 1of these lions then it is in the wrong geographical location,and may have been moved there or built there upon the chamber/below/monument/statue that was orriginally there.maybe Anubis,maybe RA,maybe mickeymouse,who knows?

btw what are the paintings/symbols eitherside of the lions in your image,its important to include theseto see the story.

reply to post by hrmmm


It's unrelated to the symbol of Aker

Also note in the open eastern catuch the symbol for khet

Khet
This symbol represents a lamp or brazier on a stand from which a flame emerges. Fire was embodied in the sun and in its symbol the uraeus which spit fire. Fire also plays a part in the Egyptian concept of the underworld. There is one terrifying aspect of the underworld which is similar to the christians concept of hell. Most egyptians would like to avoid this place with its fiery lakes and rivers that are inhabited by fire demons.

reply to post by hrmmm


The point i was making is the that it is symbolic and i am not saying there were two sphinx's back to back. I was saying the the Sphinx was built relating to the constellation Leo.

Representing Aker - ''the guardian of the horizon''


As per page 2 of this thread, in 10,000BC The sphinx was back facing West at Sunset and looking East at sunrise. At sunrise Leo rose directly in front of the Sphinx and at sunrise Leo was setting behind the Sphinx. Leo traversed the sky through the day which also supports this quote -

As the horizon, Aker was also seen as symbolic of the borders between each day -

Aker was said to guard the entrance and exit to the underworld, opening them for the sun to pass through during the night. As the guard, it was said that the dead had to request Aker to open the underworld's gates, so that they might enter. Also, as all who had died had to pass Aker, it was said that Aker annulled the causes of death, such as extracting the poison from any snakes that had bitten the deceased, or from any scorpions that had stung them.

As the Egyptians believed that the gates of the morning and evening were guarded by Aker, they sometimes placed twin statues of lions at the doors of their palaces and tombs. This was to guard the households and tombs from evil spirits and other malevolent beings. This practice was adopted by the Greeks and Romans, and is still unknowingly followed by some today. Unlike most of the other Egyptian deities, the worship of Aker remained popular well into the Greco-Roman era. Aker had no temples of his own like the main gods in the Egyptian religion, since he was more connected to the primeval concepts of the very old earth powers.

Source

Look at page 2, there are images from Stellarium that show the constellations at Giza in 10,000BC

i see its pointless in trying to meaningfully and dectectivly converse this subject with you.
And btw its impossible for a star/constalaton to rise in the west,unless the earth was spinning in the opposide direction 12,000 years ago which would totally bunk your whole theory anyway.
nevermind it could have been a good debate if you were open to different oppinions and open minded,wanting to discover truth,but anything that dont fit your picture gets arased and stamped over with a self reinforceing self-convincing precept.

was looking forward to this thread but i see it cant be found here you really dissapoint me dude!

BTW stop looking to wiki for facts if i edit the page about the moon and re wrote it as being made of swiss cheese im sure half the internet population would believe it as FACT :'(

reply to post by hrmmm



Yes yes i mixed up East and West in that post but if you had read page two like i asked you might have understood what i was saying and if that still doesnt make any sense then on page 2 there are also pictures that help explain it if you cant understand what i am saying.


Why did you add me as a foe? Theres too much conflict in this world.......


Let me start again -


In 10,000BC as the Sun is setting in the West, Leo rises directly in front of the Sphinx to the East as the Sphinx is East facing.

It travels across the night sky and then the next morning Leo is setting directly behind the Sphinx in the West as the Sun is rising in front of the Sphinx (East)


Below courtesy Cybersky software -

Sunset - Leo Rising in the East (face to face with The Sphinx)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/efa4835db2b2.jpg[/atsimg]


Sunrise - Leo setting in the West (back to back with the Sphinx)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5a2d17359999.jpg[/atsimg]


10,000BC -

* So we have the Sphinx - it faces East.

* Leo rises directly to the East at Sunset (sun setting in the West)

The next morning;

* Leo sets in the West at Sunrise ( then you would have two lions back to back )

If you read some of the meaning and symbology behind Aker it actually does make some sense -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6231dd8416b3.jpg[/atsimg]

Aker embraces the world - he is represented as the sign of the horizon in-between two lions (sometimes these may be human forms instead) which are seated back to back (one animal faces west - where the sun sets each day and begins its journey into the night and Underworld, the other lion faces the east where the sun rises each morning free once more from the realm of darkness).

He guarded the eastern and western borders of the netherworld and protected the sun god Ra when he first entered the netherworld at sunset and again when he returned to the world of the living at sunrise and bore the sun on his back through the underworld.


* ''The two lions were called Sef and Duau, which means "Yesterday" and "Today" respectively''

* It is believed that Aker is probably a more ancient earth god than the Heliopolitan god, Geb.

Source

Source 2

Source 3

Does that make the theory easiere to understand easier to understand?

nice article

Science and astrology tells us that Leo set directly in fron of the Sphinx in the time of Leo just before the sun and dawn of the new day, which also means that the Leo rose directly West and behind the Sphnix as very early depictions of Aker represent

reply to post by torontoguy123


Sorry it's my fault, i have done it a few times in this thread, mixing up East and West.

I just edited my above post if you wanna have a look.


So Leo rose in the East ( infront of the Sphinx ) and the next morning it set behind the Sphinx in the West. Which is where i linked it to Aker and symbology and myth behind that particular God.

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by torontoguy123

 

Sorry it's my fault, i have done it a few times in this thread, mixing up East and West.

I just edited my above post if you wanna have a look.


So Leo rose in the East ( infront of the Sphinx ) and the next morning it set behind the Sphinx in the West. Which is where i linked it to Aker and symbology and myth behind that particular God.

The problem with that idea is that the Egyptians didn't recognize Leo. Even in Sumer, it was originally called the "big dog," believe it or not.

I realize you're not talking about the Egyptians if you're talking about 10,000 BC. But you sure are talking a lot about the Egyptians for someone that's not talking about the Egyptians.

Anyway, because of precession, every zodiacal constellation will eventually rise directly in front of the sphinx and set directly behind it. Why do you pick Leo? Because the sphinx is a lion? But, again, the Egyptians didn't recognize Leo, they didn't have anything like a zodiac and only had a handful of star patterns they recognized. Most of their astronomy involved single stars.

Sorry, the sphinx has nothing to do with Leo.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Thats your opinion but you say it like it is a proven fact....


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc3b2e767466.gif[/atsimg] Above: A drawing of symbols and glyphs from the tomb of Seti I (1200BC )

Constellations specific to ancient Egypt


Ancient Egyptians called the northern stars around the circumpolar star “Ikhemw-sek” (imperishable stars) and the southern stars “Ikhemw-wredj” (unwearying stars). This naming (tireless stars) is probably because the southern stars especially on and about the celestial equator travel a very long distance after they rise above the East horizon before they sink below the West horizon, while the northern stars move counterclockwise around the celestial north pole.

On ancient Egyptian tombs and ceilings of temples, northern constellations were discovered. These stars are called “Ikhemw-sek” (imperishable stars) because they are generally assumed to be “northern circumpolar stars” never sinking below the horizon. The oldest existing northern constellation is a constellation named “Meskhetyw.” It was drawn as a forefoot of a bull on the interior lid of the wooden coffin for the man named Idy which dated from the First Intermediate Period (from 2145 B.C. to about 2025 B.C.) and was excavated in Asyut.

 

There are two famous constellations among the southern stars called Ikhemw-wredj (unwearying stars): a constellation called Sah corresponding to the current Onion's Belt and Sirius called Sepdet. The name Sah was first found in the “Pyramid Text” engraved in the Pyramid of Unas, the last king of the 5th Dynasty, Old Kingdom (reign: from 2340 B.C. to 2320 B.C.).

Source

So are you saying they didnt use constellations at all and only focused on single stars?

Yes i am talking about Egyptians because the Sphinx is in Egypt but instead of refering to current day or the Egyptians of the Dynastic periods i am going further back. I picked Leo because that is the entire point of this thread and how it relates to Aker.

Dont patronise me!


Not just the fact there are two lions in the symbol for Aker (sometimes also represented by two Human heads on either side of the horizon symbol) but because at that date in time it fits well with the myth and meaning behind Aker, the location of the Sphinx, the direction it faces and the stars at dusk, through the night and at dawn.