The Sphinx Origins and a Final Link to Pre-Dynastic Egypt, page 1

Hello All,

Although this thread isnt about how or who built the Sphinx i do truly believe i may have found a link to the Sphinx that pre dates the 1st Dynasty.

I have long felt there is more to the Great Sphinx, it's links to the Pyramids and the time it was built, it has only been recently that i have found some interesting links to the pre 1 st dynasty of Egypt. I started to think that we have been looking in wrong places all this time... yes we know it has water damage and erosion and that it is out of place completly. There is no written record of it's construction, only it's repair by Kefre in the palette of the pyramids.

To begin with lets look at what we know so far, that the there is no written evidence that the Sphinx was constructed during the time of any pharoa and if so there is no trace of it. It is not widely beleieved that the Sphinx displays water damge and erosion which could not have occured on or after the supposed date of construction.

The head is out of propution compared to the body, an amzing thing comapred to the feat and detail of egyption constuction in the supposed time it was built. I will do us all the favour of skipping past the many other known facts and theories as we all know them by now.

My thread is not about what is already well know and written about but a link i have found and only very recently. To begin with lets look at the true facts:

The Sphinx is amazing, it was constructed facing East looking at the rising sun. If we believe what is now being said in the time of Leo it was facing the setting constelltion of Leo only an hour or two before sunrise, which mean that Leo would have risen at the back of the Sphinx and over the night sky would have passed over the Sphinx and set bringing the with setting of Leo the new day.

Caption: Napoleon overlooking the Spinx in awe


Lets for a moment step away from science and look at Egyption mytholgy and early religion and worship.
I want to bring to your attention the god Aker.

Have you heard of Aker? Untill recently i had not, Aker surprisingly is not as well known as many more recent gods that were worshiped in Egypt.
Before i go on i would like to share some quotes i have found online reagrding this god, i hope you can ut the link together before i share my opinion on the matter, and as i said for a moment put aside science and think in Egyption terms, in the time of ancient Egyptions..


Aker:


Wiki - '' In Egyptian mythology, Aker (also spelt Akar) was one of the earliest gods worshipped, and was the deification of the horizon. There are strong indications that Aker was worshipped before other known Egyptian gods of the earth, such as Geb. In particular, the Pyramid texts make a sinister statement that the Akeru (plural of Aker) will not seize the pharaoh, as if this were something that might have happened, and was something of which to be afraid. Aker itself translates as (one who) bends, and thus Akeru translates as benders, though in what sense this is meant is not fully understood. ''


Further sources:

'' Aker was an ancient earth-god in Egypt. He was believed to guard the gates of the dawn from which the sun rose each morning. He was portrayed as a double-headed lion, or a two lions sitting back-to-back. ''


--------

'' Aker (also Akeru, Akerui meaning "the two Akers") guarded the sunrise and sunset and the passage of Re's solar boat on its daily journey across the sky. ''


'' Sculptures of Aker were rare but pictures more common. The two lions face both ways meaning saying goodbye to the old day and welcoming a new one and their names thus were "Yesterday" and "Today", in Egyptian Sef and Duau. ''

Also i wish to give full courtesy for all quotes and all links are provided at the end of this post.

Now rememeber in the time of Leo, it would have risen directly behond the Sphinx to the West and traversed the night sky overhead and finally set directly in front of the Sphonx to the East bringing with it the new day and the rising of the Sun.

All this could only have occured in the time of Leo during that period of 10,000 - 8,000 BC. Could Aker have been the earliest god worshiped for this reason?
Twin Lions back to back and the guardian of the horizon and the gatekeeper of the night or underworld.

Further reading and link:


en.wikipedia.org...(god)

www.nemo.nu...

To the above link, do not get the red circle confused with the symbol of the Dun, this symbol actually represents the horizon.


www.dreamscape.com...

www.egyptianmyths.net...

The dream Stela, the only real post 1sy dynasty link to the Sphinx as it sits directly in front of it. The same represenation was images and shown to exist thousands of years before the Stella was created. If the links and meaning i have connected are true, then how could the Shpinx have evr watched Leo set and bring the dawn of the sun unless it was built in the time of Leo.

As stated above it was the gatekeeper of the sunrise and sunset.




- ib205.tripod.com...

The Dream Stela is direct link the much earlier representations of Aker and is placed on the Sphinx.

reply to post by mblahnikluver

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Thanks and yeag i also feel the same. I really feel i have found a link to ealry egyption times and i mean before the 1st dynasty. I started looking there as i though to myself that is the Sphonx was really there 13-10,000 years ago there must be something in Egyption history that links to it.

Although many pre dynastic egyptions orginated from the Sth East of Egypt i still believed there must have been something that linked it to earlier times. All this time i have only followed ehatmany others have said and gone with scientific view rather than study for myself the true backgorund and beliefs of theEgpytion people and to my surprise i found the above links to the past.

It fits perfectlt to why it was there to begin with and worship of the God Aker and the meaning behind Aker. If the history was there with no scientific support it would be only half sided but this thoery supports both science and relgious in Egypt at the time.

Science and astrology tells us that Leo set directly in fron of the Sphinx in the time of Leo just before the sun and dawn of the new day, which also means that the Leo rose directly West and behind the Sphnix as very early depictions of Aker represent.

As per the meanings of Aker that he was the keeper of the horizion and guraded the passage to the underworld watching the dawn and dusk of the day.

reply to post by jlc767

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yes untill lastnight i had never heard of Aker, and is not listed on all of the websites that list Egyptian gods. Although it does make for soem interesting reading and the meaning behind the beleif truly links up the the Sphinx and how it may have been seen during the time of Leo.

In regard to the pyramids i also believe there is much to be learnt and would love to get my hands on some of the original cap stones. They were taken in the ealry years of this millenium for use in building in Cairo. Very sad for i would i have loved to see the Great Pyramid in all it's glory.

reply to post by Fryaga

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I think the second '' Sphinx or Lion '' does exist and is in plain sight - Leo

The Spinx was built on the Earth and West facing second part was Leo rising to West directly behind the Sphinx as the depiction of Aker suggests and then it would set directly in front of the Sphinx bring in the dawn of the new day with the sunrise. In the symbol i posted of Aker, the disc does not represent the Sun as with teh symbol of Ra, it represents the horizon.

reply to post by Havick007

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Nice, I see what you were saying. I was going by the image posted, of the two lions facing away from each other...so the constellation would be suitable for the second.

I still say it's probably one of the most terrifyingly old objects on the planet - I wish we had more facts to base an age on it, it has always given me the impression that if there was ever a doorway into knowing our true past, it is the gatekeeper.

Unless something more insane pops up once the icecaps melt, in which case...game on.

reply to post by Fryaga

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I still think there may be someting benath Sphonx and as soon as they find something that can be carbonn dated that would provide proof, if we were ever told about it....

Ahh yes the icecaps, i am very curious as to what lies beneath Antarctica, as it is actually a continent and made of of more landmass than ice, it is only covered in ice at the moment. Ever read about Lake Vostok?

reply to post by Fryaga

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Also i put it together as soon as i saw the image depicting Aker, Rather than look at it literally and think of 2 Spinx's i think it help to think in terms of symbology and what lad to the creation of the dpeiction in the first place.

ok, there might be a connection to the Aker god in early Egypts' pantheon of gods...



but in early Egypt before there were dynasties, the culture worshiped the Lion itself,
the Lion Cult as it were...
perhaps that monument was also a shrine, long before it was remodelded with a Pharohs
bust with royal headress.


remember the Druids built a stonehedge, the primitive society of pre dynastic Egypt
may also have both sculpted and built the Sphinx from an original vortice place,
and aligned the monument with the rising Sun & horizon...
completely independent of the later Astrological constellation 'Leo'
see: starryskies.com...

the 'lion' in the history of myth became the Leo constellation of early
Chaldean/Babylonian/Summerian astronomical sky division


i'm still waiting for a 'alter site' to be discovered between the paws of the monument,
if there's ever a way to recapture past record...or perhaps there's just a
seat or certain point one positions oneself to a line-of-sight vector that heralds a celestial timing point
like spring/summer/winter/rise of Nile or something important

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
Ever since I did a paper on the Sphinx 8 years ago in school (college) I have come to believe it is older than what they say it is and that it had the face of a lion first. It always bugged me how out of proportion the Sphinx is.

Well, it must not have bugged you too much. If it had, you would have investigated. And if you'd investigated, you'd know that there are at least two perfectly reasonable explanations for the disproportionality you noted.

For the OP:

You have the constellations rising in the west. Nothing in the sky rises in the west. Nothing.

Also, you should look into the history of the zodiacal constellation Leo. If you do, you'll see that the idea you've parroted here is simply wrong - the Egyptians (and their predecessors in pre-dynastic times) never had a zodiac, never attributed animal shapes to constellations (or any other shapes, for the most part,) and in fact never even considered constellations per se, just the general areas in the sky where they can be seen.

Egyptians and pre-Egyptians considered some of the individual stars to be important, but not the "connect the dots" shapes they make.

Lastly, the constellation we call Leo today was first mentioned by the Sumerians, and they called it the "big dog."

Sorry, but no, you're chasing shadows here.

There's little doubt that the Sphinx was carved during the Old Kingdom. Exactly when remains to be seen, but most likely it was carved during the reign of Khafre.

The best evidence that the Sphinx dates to the reign of Khafre is based on archaeology and architecture. The location of the Sphinx and the architectural similarity of its temple to Khafre’s valley temple make it most likely that the statue dates to Khafre’s reign. In addition, the temples are both built on the same terrace, and some of their walls are aligned. A drainage trench running along the northern side of Khafre’s causeway and opening into the Sphinx ditch proves that the Sphinx was carved after the causeway was built, since the ancient engineers would not have designed the trench to drain into the ditch. All of these things point to the Sphinx having been created during the reign of Khafre.[3]

Source: PDF

The above is only one example. Khafre's Causeway appears to have been constructed before the sphinx, as one wall of the sphinx enclosure is not square with the others, rather it runs parallel with Khafre's causeway. See the linked pic below to understand what I'm saying here:



Also, it has been shown that Khafre's temple predates the sphinx temple, and the sphinx temple has been shown to have been constructed from limestone blocks that were removed from the sphinx enclosure, part of the process of excavating down to carve the sphinx.


Harte

Physical evidence links the Sphinx to Khafre.

ATS thread: Cosmos - Riddle of the Sphinx

Then, in 1980, Lehner recruited a young German geologist, Tom Aigner, who suggested a novel way of showing that the Sphinx was part of Khafre's larger building complex.

Limestone is the result of mud, coral and the shells of plankton-like creatures compressed together over tens of millions of years. Looking at samples from the Sphinx Temple and the Sphinx itself, Aigner and Lehner inventoried the different fossils making up the limestone. The fossil fingerprints showed that the blocks used for the wall of the temple must have come from the ditch surrounding the Sphinx - as the statue was being carved, the quarried blocks were being hauled away to build the temple.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

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I tend to disagree

'' American Egyptologist Mark Lehner has analyzed the repairs to the Sphinx [15] and concluded that, despite his own evidence to the contrary, "To seek agreement with known historical facts [e.g., his contention, among other things, that the Sphinx was carved in ca. 2500 B.C. by order of Khafre], we should probably expect the earliest restoration to have been done in the New Kingdom [ca. 1500-1000 B.C.].[16]

In summary, in order to save the attribution of the Sphinx to King Khafre and ca. 2500 B.C., Lehner suggests that the earliest level of "large-block" (Old Kingdom-style?) masonry was added to the monument during the New Kingdom, over 1,000 years later. Furthermore, he points out that this still leaves only on the order of 500 years for the majority of the weathering and erosion experienced by the Sphinx to have occurred. Taking not only Lehner's work into account, but also the evidence for a two-stage construction of the Sphinx-associated temples (discussed above), the research that has been carried out concerning different modes of weathering on the Giza Plateau (discussed above), and the seismic surveys in the area of the Sphinx complex which give data on the subsurface depth and distribution of weathering around the monument (discussed below), and considering the fact that attribution of the carving of the Sphinx to Khafre is based on circumstantial evidence to begin with, I find one conclusion is inescapable: The initial carving of the core body of the colossal sculpture predated the time of Khafre. Lehner's own work is more easily reconciled with the hypothesis that the Fourth Dynasty Egyptians merely restored, refurbished and added on to the Sphinx and its neighboring structures, rather than being the original creators of this Giza Plateau complex.''



I also beleive that he may have carried out repair work on the Sphinx but not commisioned it.

'' A reasonable hypothesis is that when Khafre repaired and refurbished the Great Sphinx and its associated temples in ca. 2500 B.C., he had the back (western end) of the colossal sculpture carved out and freed from the cliff (or enclosure wall). It is difficult to argue that the rump of the figure was carved any later than Khafre's time; the base of the rump has, like the rest of the core body of the Sphinx, been weathered and repaired with limestone blocks. Furthermore, one must account for the non-trivial four feet (1.2 meters) of subsurface weathering detected in the area behind the carved figure, between the rump and the enclosure wall. If, for instance, one hypothesized that the rump of the Sphinx had been freed during New Kingdom restoration efforts to the sculpture, how could we account for this deep subsurface weathering, given the prevailing and conditions on the Giza Plateau from New Kingdom times to the present and the historical fact that the Sphinx enclosure has been filled with desert sands for much of the period since the New Kingdom?''


All quotes courtesy of:

circulartimes.org...

reply to post by Havick007

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No, I've never heard of this lake.

Do you have more information you could U2U or share about it?

I recently read an interesting article from original source, Histories & Mysteries by French author and researcher, Antoine Gigal. It seems there is historical evidence of a second Sphinx.

A Second Sphinx at Giza?

Antoine Gigal has unearthed historical evidence that shows that until the 11th century AD, a Second Sphinx existed on the Gizeh plateau, which has since been dismantled. In 1858, François Auguste Mariette was charged by the Duke of Luynes to verify the proposition of Pliny the Elder that the Sphinx had been constructed, and was not monolithic. He opened a trench near the pyramid of Khufu (4th Dynasty, 2589-2566 BC) and in a sanctuary of Isis (dating from the 1st century BC), where he found the so-called “Inventory Stele”. The stele states that “during the reign of Khufu, he ordered the construction of a monument the length of the Sphinx.” This logically concludes that the Sphinx was already there, and that the standard theory, which is that the Sphinx is contemporary with Khafre (4th Dynasty, 2520-2494 BC), is incorrect.

There is also a text from Pharaoh Amenhotep II (ca. 1448-1420 BC), in which the Sphinx is mentioned and is labelled “older than the pyramids”.

Most importantly, in the Inventory Stele, there is mention of a lightning strike that struck the cap of a Second Sphinx, as well as a sycamore tree, a sacred tree in those days, which was burned by the same lightning strike. The lightning strike marked the beginning of the end of this Second Sphinx.

According to archaeologist Michael Poe, who refers to papyrus fragments from the Middle Kingdom, the Second Sphinx was located face to face with the still-existing Sphinx. It was located on the other side of the Nile, and was destroyed by a violent rising of the river Nile ca. 1000 AD. The local people took stones from the structure to rebuild their villages.

This thesis is confirmed by other texts, such as those of the great Arab geographer and scholar Al-I-Drisi (1099-1166 AD) in his two geographical encyclopaedias (Kitab al Mamalk, Al-Mamsalik, and Kitab al Jujori).

Other authors also mention the existence of two sphinxes. The famous historian Musabbihi writes about a “sphinx smaller than the other” (likely because the other one had deteriorated badly by that time) on the other side of the Nile, made from bricks and stones (Annals of Rubi II, ca. 1024).

Also -

''Returning to the Inventory Stele, there is mention of Khufu repairing the Sphinx rather than building it. If it is accepted that the Inventory Stele is a genuine copy of an earlier document, and not a fake, this would undermine the belief that Khufu’s son Khafre built the Sphinx. Thus, the evidence from geology and the Inventory Stele, together, support the view that the Sphinx is far older than the 4th Dynasty.''

Source: www.hallofthegods.org...

reply to post by Havick007

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Something further to the above -

'' In Egypt, geologists have found that the combined effects of melting glaciers coupled with a steep rise in precipitation levels in Central Africa, around 10,000 B.C., caused the Nile River to swell hugely in size washing out its entire valley throughout the length of Egypt. At the same time, the Mediterranean Sea began to expand due to rising ocean levels from the meltdown of the northern glaciers. It has been established that for a brief period its waters actually flooded the lower Nile Valley. These inundations are believed by geologists to have been the last major flood events in Egypt’s history. Consistent with this, a fourteen-foot layer of sediment was discovered around the base of the Great Pyramid. It was found to contain many seashells, and the fossil of a sea cow, all of which were radiocarbon dated to about 10,000 B.C.

Legends and records also relate that, before the Arabs removed the Great Pyramid’s outer casing stones, water marks were visible at around the 240 foot level. When the Pyramid was first opened in relatively modern times, incrustations of salt an inch thick were found inside. Most of this salt was revealed to be natural exudation from the rock walls, but chemical analysis also indicated that a proportion of the salt had a mineral content consistent with sea salt. By analogy, if the flooding of 10,000 B.C. was the last major inundation of Egypt, the Great Pyramid must date from a period before the flooding occurred. ''

Same source

reply to post by Havick007

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There is actually a book out now called "The Sphinx Mystery" by Robert Temple and he goes on to say that it was originally a carving of Anubis(Anpu) that was destroyed by a Pharaoh. He says that there was a lake in front of the paws and it was a representation of Anubis in Dog form guarding the lake of souls in the underworld as written in the Papyrus of Ani(The Book of the Dead) I sadly have not finished the book yet but figured I would see if you have heard of it.

reply to post by Harte

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The off-site content you posted, is that the best ''proof'' you have that it was built in the same period? Sounds more like speculation, i do realise i am also speculating at this point but i mean...come on??


Let's see, the sphinx ''resembled'' the surrounding area? It and the temples were built on the same terrace? The building were alligned?

Well, i could say many hundreds of Egyption sites resemble each other but they were built hundreds if not thousands of years apart. The terrace is not relevant, in 1000 years time they may find 2 buildings on the same street built at totally different times but because they are on the same street or ''terrace'' doesnt mean they were built at the same time. The same goes for allignment with temples, the temples could have been built to allign with the Sphinx, or maybe the temples were already there as well but was remodelled and recarved at a later time?

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