How To Enhance Your AR Platform Rifle

S&F!
This is what I have on my rig.
BUSHMASTER AR15 FLAT TOP MODXM15-E2S, $1200, W/ TROY RAIL HAND GUARD $200, Troy Front Tritium folding battle sight $145, NOVESKE KX3 $125, EOTECH L552 holographic sight $550, GG&G EOTech Hood And Lens Cover $50, LASERMAX GREEN LASER $400, SUREFIRE X300 LIGHT $250, GG&G Offset Tactical Flashlight Mount $75, GG&G A2 Spring Actuated BUIS (Back Up Iron Sight) w/ Trijicon Tritium aperture $210, Combat Arms Accessories Fully adjustable cheek piece $30, Combat Arms Accessories pistol grip $41, Six-position collapsible stock with rubber non-slip recoil pad $140, Spector Universal CQB sling $50, TangoDown forward pistol grip $88, bolt buffer $40, BCM Gunfighter charging handle $48, Accuwedge $3, JP trigger $170, Oversized Magazine button $8, MI sling mounts $80 = $3873 and approx. 10, 30 rd magazines @$15 a piece.
I also use an RCBS Pro 2000, Hodgdon Varget 25.5 gr, Sierra game king #1395 65 gr BTS(Hodgdon owns IMR, Winchester powder, Clays. Speer is owned by the same company (ATK) that owns Federal Cartridge and CCI.)
Time to go shoot

Originally posted by mbzastava
reply to post by projectvxn

 

recently i have been wanting my own "survival" setup, as up until now i have only been playing with my SKS's. thinking logically, i would need to be using a weapon than can fire the same ammunition as my opposition. this restricts my choices to pretty much .223 and .308. citing exactly the AR platform's bad wrap which you mentioned, i have been more of a fan of the .308 and the M1A platform.

what is your opinion on the M1A as a survival/battlefield weapon? (personally i'd be leaning towards the scout model...)

i understand that the AR platform can also be chambered for .308? what are your opinions?

peace,
mbzastava

p.s. i must deal with kalifornia firearm regulations =/

The AR chambered in the .308 is the AR-10. I have one and don't really have any complaints about it other than the fact it seems to only operate well with Armalite magazines...and it's rather pricey. Mine has a SS barrel and will get the job done out to 800+ meters, assuming I'm on my game.

There are no shortage of debates regarding the efficacy of a battle rifle chambered in .223, 7.62x39, and .308. Owning both an AR-15 and an AR-10, I'd grab the AR-15 in a SHTF and go situation. Granted the .308 has superior knock down but I can carry twice as much .223 as I can .308 ammo. That is where shot placement comes into play. When you hear someone refer to the .223 round as a *poodle popper* ask them if they are willing to stand at 200 meters wearing a level IV vest and take one to see what they really think. Obviously that offer will be declined.

If your preference is for a rifle packing a bigger punch, e.g. the .308, I'd strongly suggest you look at the Saiga rifles. They are designed on the AK platform and are approximately half the cost of an AR-10. With a bit of tweaking, it will spit out a .308 round as far as you'll ever need it to go with a respectable degree of accuracy. I have to admit I truly love the AK platform for it's reliability. I no longer own an AK but wish I had kept at least one.

If cost is an issue, I'd strongly suggest you do a search on the Saiga rifles and take your time to familiarize yourself with them. If you really want an AR-10, I know someone willing to sell theirs with quite a few Armalite magazines...just PM me.

My two pennies worth.

I personally think 5.56 gets a bad rap regarding knockdown power. I've personally seen it destroy a human being efficiently.
The proof is in the pudding basically, it was adopted in the late 1960's. If it was inferior it would have been replaced by now. Also, everyone should be aware that there are certain differences with military ball ammunition and civilian defense and hunting rounds. Military ammo is designed not to fragment, its designed with a steel penetrator over a lead or tungsten (for the new "green" ammo) core. Its designed to punch through light armor and as such needs to retain its mass behind the steel bit to effectively defeat armor. Once it hits a hydraulic target it begins to yaw, or spin along its vertical axis, which causes a lot of damage. Many exit wounds associated with military ball ammo, the bullet exits backwards or sideways.
Civilian ammunition is designed to perform more traditionally. Its designed to deform and expand inside a hydraulic target, and transfer as much energy as possible from the round into the target causing the maximum amount of trauma.
The major problem with 5.56 ammunition in the circles I run are not stopping power, but its tendency to over penetrate. While jacketed hollow point ammo will expend energy in a target reliably, and usually slow down significantly before exiting, FMJ ball is likely to exit a target at lethal velocity causing a threat to anything behind the intended target. This is referred to as "background damage". Its a fairly serious issue with military ROE's and police policy, as the guy behind the threat may just be some bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Federal and Hornaday both market "Tactical" rounds designed to defeat soft body armor and reliably fragment in a hydraulic target, giving maximum wound trauma and minimal risk of background damage. These apparently work, as all LE guys I know in special threat teams tell me that they have switched out their pistol caliber carbines for short barreled 5.56 systems, most using Federal T-3 ammo.
5.56 is a highly reliable man stopper within its effective range, obviously its not intended for long range shots past 600 meters. A 7.62 or .30 caliber magnum weapon would be a better choice at long range, but for a grab and go fire superiority rifle, I'll go with my AR-15.

I really want to get an AR15...

I have an SKS (composite with folding stock and bayonet with a truglo red dot) which is actually a really nice weapon for those who have never fired one or used one. I was really impressed with how much more accurate the SKS is than the AK-47. Although one could argue the 5.56 vs 7.62 all day long. There is a difference don't get me wrong but it's not much of one.

Anyway thanks for the info!

reply to post by bozzchem


thanks for your response! I am also an SKS lover, i have 3 of them to keep me company for any close quarters situations.

this is exactly why i have been leaning more towards the .308 for its added "utility," if you could call it that... i can bunker down somewhere with my SKS's and thousands of rounds of ammo, but if i have to leave the base surely i will want a firearm that is capable of reaching useful distances of at least 600yds. the point made of being able to demobilize reinforcements is exactly the type of scenario that would be of most value to me. i also find myself wanting the guaranteed ability to shoot through multiple/heavy obstacles to reach my target. something i'm not entirely sure the .223 is capable of. maybe i'm wrong, those new magnum rounds sure sound fun.

i once had my eye on a SOCOM 16. will be looking into the saiga as you suggested, and will also keep your AR10's in mind. i'll probably come back here with more questions.

peace,
mbzastava

also, if anyone is wondering why i own 3 SKS's...

1) You may need to arm more than just yourself.

2) when you can't have removable mags, at $180 a pop and someone to reload for you, 3 SKS's can turn you into a very capable sentry.

How to improve on the AR15 platform? Sell it and buy something that doesn't use DI. AR's are great range toys, and you can dress them up just like a barbie doll for boys. Anything that needs THAT much stuff just to run correctly is useless in my opinion. Just like 1911's but thats another story.

reply to post by Rubicon1


Well that's not the point. The AR system will work just fine as is. But these are enhancements to the rifle that improve reliability and accuracy. The AR system does have problems, but so does every other weapons system.

As to the point on direct impingement systems, I agree. I prefer gas piston system myself, and have been considering purchasing the Bushmaster ACR as an upgrade to my weapons collection.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Rubicon1

 

Well that's the not the point. The AR system will work just fine as is. But these are enhancements to the rifle that improve reliability and accuracy. The AR system does have problems, but so does every other weapons system.

As to the point on direct impingement systems, I agree. I prefer gas piston system myself, and have been considering purchasing the Bushmaster ACR as an upgrade to my weapons collection.

Bushmaster ACR, sounds great choice.

reply to post by projectvxn


Do you perchance watch Sons of Guns?

reply to post by fredvcall


It's a good show.

I've only caught the last few episodes though. Didn't know about it till someone here made a thread on it.

Good posts! Good information!

I have a Colt AR that I've left pretty much stock as it will do what it's supposed to do as a .223. I've used them in combat, and out toward 200 yards, the results of the .223 are mixed - at best.

I love the .308, as it's good for the 200 to 800 meter range where the .223 leaves off, and I do love the M-14 for the range and reliability.

Boys, just a few years ago, an AR that could shoot a minute of angle was something really special.

Now I'm flying wood because of the Les Baer AR in .308. My Lord!

One gun, with accuracy out the butt, right out of the box, that will reach out comfortably to 800 meters.

Holy crap!

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by fredvcall

 

It's a good show.

I've only caught the last few episodes though. Didn't know about it till someone here made a thread on it.

You can watch episodes on the internet. They usually re-run episodes on Sunday afternoons.

I'm not one much into reality television. But this is one program that has made me aware of how important it is to prepare. Your weapon, any weapon, can be modified to fit your particular needs. They've made bazookas out of pipes for a World War Two re-enactment groups. They've made multi-tube rocket launchers. They've enhanced weapons for police and private security members.

It's worth the watch if you are going to watch any reality television. Than and NASCAR.

Okay, a question.

The Hi-Point .45 caliber semiautomatic can be had for around 260 dollars. Cheap. Buy two. One for each hand.

Granted, the Hi-Point is not a precision piece of weaponry. But I was talking to a fellow in Colorado who opined that he has one behind every door in his house. At that price, it is affordable. You either have a Remington 870 with double aught, or maybe a Hi-Point .45 caliber behind your door for quick access during the unexpected.

Anyway, this fellow in Colorado's philosophy is that he chose the Hi-Point over the short barrel shotgun.

I've checked around gun shops. Gun shops want to sell more expensive weapons. Yet, gun shop owners admit they have a backlog on orders from people waiting for the Hi-Point .45.

What say you?

reply to post by fredvcall


They have a backlog because they are cheap, no other reason.

I've owned two Hi-Points and have been miserably disappointed with them.
I used to think that the people who talked them down were just being snotty
about it. But they're really not.

Don't entrust your life to something that can't even strike the primer hard enough
to make it go boom.

reply to post by projectvxn

Amen, brother!

The worst sound in the world when you pull the trigger, is to hear a "click." You can survive that crap on a firing range, but not when it's for keeps.

If cost is primary, then there are some good, used firearms available everywhere. Name-brands are good to stick to, and a check-over by a gunsmith can give you a degree of faith in reliability.

Since you mentioned a .45, even the top-name high-dollar 1911's need at least 500 rounds put through them to make them reliable.

Clean it every fifty to hundred rounds, and get through that part as quickly as you can. Nothing fancy, just .45 ball.

reply to post by FarArcher


Some people really believe that having ANY gun is better than no gun.

I simply don't buy into that. The fact is a reliable gun is preferable to a questionable gun any day.

If you have 200 bucks to put into a Hi-Point just wait till you have another 200 bucks and put in for a decent Ruger
or Taurus.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by fredvcall

 

They have a backlog because they are cheap, no other reason.

I've owned two Hi-Points and have been miserably disappointed with them.
I used to think that the people who talked them down were just being snotty
about it. But they're really not.

Don't entrust your life to something that can't even strike the primer hard enough
to make it go boom.

Thanks. I've never owned one. Caveat Emptor: Always ask before buying.

Originally posted by commdogg
I personally think 5.56 gets a bad rap regarding knockdown power. I've personally seen it destroy a human being efficiently.

I've put a 5.56 through a plate of 3/8 cold rolled steel. It's got penetrating power, for sure. When it tumbles after hitting bone, it makes a mess.

The problem with the Colt M-16 during Vietnam is that it got too many Americans killed. Worked fine if it was eighty five degrees and not raining. In a jungle, time to look for an M-14, an AK or even a shotgun.

reply to post by fredvcall


Well, during Vietnam the Pentagon told soldiers that the new rifles would not require cleaning and the barrels were not chrome/molybdenum lined, so fouling was a much more serious issue. The only place the rifles were tested were in controlled lab settings prior to being sent into combat.

Once the Pentagon figured it all out they started issuing rifles with a chrome/moly lining and cleaning kits, the black rifle started to function much better.