Revolution is illegal according to the 14th Amendment Sec 4 of the US Constitution

So what you say?

If you revolt the US government won't pay your debts and they won't stop foriegn countries and private armies from attempting to collect on the debt.

So basically any breakaway regions of the US will be turned over to the vultures and left to fend for themselves.

US Constitution Amendment XIV - Section 4

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by In nothing we trust


revolution is illegal by its nature. but if a revolution succeeds then they can mint their own money and pay off the debt they incurred in revolution.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
So what you say?

If you revolt the US government won't pay your debts and they won't stop foriegn countries and private armies from attempting to collect on the debt.

US Constitution Amendment XIV - Section 4

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

en.wikipedia.org...

yes we can!!
fraud(Bailout) mortgage fraud (openly called fraud) banking fraud
and treason aiding and abetting fraud (see bailouts) is CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD! it breaks all contracts we are no longer by their own rules under any contract to business or government ! Rebel away!

Originally posted by MrsBlonde

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

US Constitution Amendment XIV - Section 4

... neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; ...

en.wikipedia.org...

yes we can!!

fraud(Bailout) mortgage fraud (openly called fraud) banking fraud and treason aiding and abetting fraud (see bailouts) is CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD! it breaks all contracts we are no longer by their own rules under any contract to business or government !

Rebel away!

But you then get to keep your portion of the debt.

I think the idea might be this.

If the US remains unified in slavery and in debt then it remains a viable entity, however if it fractures and begins to suffer breakway republics that decide that they wish to be independant and debt free then the US government will unleash the dogs of hell upon it.

I thought the point was that you can't finance your effort to rebel from the fed-head with debt that would be paid off by the fed-head in case of your failure? Rebelling against the other 49 states (or whatever number doesn't join the rebellion) would be enormously expensive. Having a system that allows the federal government to essentially finance failed attempts to destroy itself from within would be a moral hazard and would be an invitation for rebellion.

I am so tired of talk of revolution. Americans are to fat, lazy and apathtic to participate.
Besides being no leadership in America if there was a revolution,
Americans can't even agree on a single issue to boycott or strike.
Give it up, and stop talking revolution.

Originally posted by snusfanatic

I thought the point was that you can't finance your effort to rebel from the fed-head with debt that would be paid off by the fed-head in case of your failure?

Having a system that allows the federal government to essentially finance failed attempts to destroy itself from within would be a moral hazard and would be an invitation for rebellion.

No it just means rebellion is illegal and you get stuck with the consequences win or lose.

I like the idea of revolt but the reality of it would probably be a lot more horrific.... Think what happens when your revolution succeeds, you start from scratch and we are reset about 200 years.... Do you think other superpowers would leave us alone? or the people we made enemies with will? Back when our country first formed we worried about boats coming here and guys with muskets and cannons, we live in much different times now and rest assured the power vacuum will set a lot of bad things in motion....

Here is something related from my state constitution. Apparently we are not allowed to revolt either lol.

Sec. 4. Secession prohibited. This State shall ever remain a member of the American Union; the people thereof are part of the American nation; there is no right on the part of this State to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this Union or to sever this Nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the State.

www.ncga.state.nc.us...

This is why TPTB are so disappointed we haven't revolted after years of abuse.
If we had, then we would have tacitly given them authority to let the debt holders of other nations
come and police us to collect. But for some strange reason we have the patience of Gandhi.
Now they actually have to fix the problem. Even the blame game isn't working anymore.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
.
Give it up, and stop talking revolution.

You know sitting around all day doing nothing and smoking pot isn't really sounding like a bad idea.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


nun huh ! then we charge Them with the debt! that means we take their stuff, or why the hell did we rebel in the first place? By stuff I mean resources, land buildings ,you know stuff and then if 'they' want to try they can petition new courts and sue ,and try to get their stuff back

Revolution is only useful when oppression becomes violent.

In the meantime: words pack a powerful punch when shouted by the masses.

The only revolution needed is a revolution of ideas.

When curiosity becomes a crime, or words become a threat; that's when revolution is needed.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

nun huh ! then we charge Them with the debt! that means we take their stuff, or why the hell did we rebel in the first place? By stuff I mean resources, land buildings ,you know stuff and then if 'they' want to try they can petition new courts and sue ,and try to get their stuff back

Sounds like a complete waste of time to always be fighting about land and stuff.

I mean if they want it so bad maybe we should just give it back to them and avoid the whole lawsuit and hand to hand combat fighting thing.

The we just won't buy anymore stuff.

Problem solved.

revolution only means change.

you can look it up.

Originally posted by justadood

revolution only means change.

Nothing ever changes

What has been is what will be again

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
.
Give it up, and stop talking revolution.

You know sitting around all day doing nothing and smoking pot isn't really sounding like a bad idea.

edit on 24-10-2010 by In nothing we trust because: (no reason given)

Politicians do it all the time

The point is moot. Should a revolution ensue and the American government is overthrown, they will not be responsible for anything let alone protecting us from our debt. The whole point of a revolution would be to usurp the US government of the responsibilities, most of which they fail to uphold anyway. So the change wouldn't be as drastic as one might think.

Let's not forget, if a group accrues enough firepower and manpower to be able to successfully break away from the current regime, they will also more than likely have enough to defend themselves. Much more, do you honestly think that the US government would give up a large chunk of its land to a foreign nation willy nilly? Not likely, regardless of whether it is full of revolutionaries or normal citizens.


To the comment that times have changes and before people were "waiting for men with boats and muskets", do realize that back then the people were just as armed as the armies that might attack. Today, the people might not have quite the caliber of weapons on a large scale, I guarantee you our population has more weapons on average than any other country in the world. Let them try to take us.

Due note, the Constitution NEVER flat out states that revolution or insurrection is illegal. I don't know how many times I have to point this out. Let us look at another document that is equally important to the country's history, the Declaration of Independence to see whether revolution is acceptable or not:

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

People tend to ignore the Declaration as if it doesn't exist when in reality it is the cornerstone, the foundation of this country for which we stand. The fact is, the Declaration of Independence was and still is the very first document that came to free this nation, and it will forever stand at the top of the list as detailing the reasons and struggle which led to the revolution for our liberty.

To ignore this is to be ignorant and to ignore the similarities of today's situation as compared with the situation then, albeit with an enemy closer to home, is to simply be blind.

Originally posted by gwydionblack

... do you honestly think that the US government would give up a large chunk of its land to a foreign nation willy nilly?

Uhhhh yeah

What do you think the open border policy is all about?

... the Constitution NEVER flat out states that revolution or insurrection is illegal.

But it does say that it (The federal corporation) will not pay, "... any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave ..."

Originally posted by gwydionblack
The point is moot. Should a revolution ensue and the American government is overthrown, they will not be responsible for anything let alone protecting us from our debt. The whole point of a revolution would be to usurp the US government of the responsibilities, most of which they fail to uphold anyway. So the change wouldn't be as drastic as one might think.

Let's not forget, if a group accrues enough firepower and manpower to be able to successfully break away from the current regime, they will also more than likely have enough to defend themselves. Much more, do you honestly think that the US government would give up a large chunk of its land to a foreign nation willy nilly? Not likely, regardless of whether it is full of revolutionaries or normal citizens.


To the comment that times have changes and before people were "waiting for men with boats and muskets", do realize that back then the people were just as armed as the armies that might attack. Today, the people might not have quite the caliber of weapons on a large scale, I guarantee you our population has more weapons on average than any other country in the world. Let them try to take us.

Due note, the Constitution NEVER flat out states that revolution or insurrection is illegal. I don't know how many times I have to point this out. Let us look at another document that is equally important to the country's history, the Declaration of Independence to see whether revolution is acceptable or not:

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

People tend to ignore the Declaration as if it doesn't exist when in reality it is the cornerstone, the foundation of this country for which we stand. The fact is, the Declaration of Independence was and still is the very first document that came to free this nation, and it will forever stand at the top of the list as detailing the reasons and struggle which led to the revolution for our liberty.

To ignore this is to be ignorant and to ignore the similarities of today's situation as compared with the situation then, albeit with an enemy closer to home, is to simply be blind.

Excellent post and well said! Having said that I doubt there will be a hot revolution anytime soon. We are experiencing the beginnings of some change but will take decades if not a century to complete.