Does religion/church keep people in the Dark?

Christianity holding back the progress of mankind??? Is this the Catholic Church that executed Socrates of charges of "corrupting the youth"? No, it`s the polititians and sophists in power at the time. Was it the Church that made a pariah out of Zarathustra? No, it was a large part of the people and scribes. Was it the Church that terribly ripped off, misinterpreted and turned Karl Marx's historic materialism theory (that`s probably more brillant than Einstein`s theory of relativity) into somekind of sterile political dogma? No, it`s both socialists and capitalists of the modern world that made that. Da Vinci and Copernic were rejected and misunderstood because their creations or theories were radically departing from the dominant conceptions and system of knowledge of their times. They were just as anachronists as the painter Jeronimus Bosch was in this same period.

There's been at many times in history forces of authority which keep the most brillant people from advancing in their works and bringing it as a contribution to mankind, but taht doesn't have anything to do with religion... These are only forces of authority. Man creating prisons for man. Humans controlling the lives of other humans, erroneously thinking that they have Justice and legitimity to do so! The problem is about CONTROL, social control... it's not about Faith.

You can believe what you want, and you`ve got all the rest of your lifetime to make up your mind about Faith in the Lord. Remember that God loves his childrens, and you will always be welcomed back if you happen to go see somewhere else.

Theres a big difference between Religion and Faith that alot of people just dont see.

Like the difference between Knowledge and Wisdom.

To me, religion gives little light to the path of faith in any way whatsoever. But with faith, religion isnt necessary.

Religion itself doesn't hold anyone back. On it's own it is just an idea. Used properly it can possibly give a person great insight into himself and his god.


It's the people who control it and the people who follow it blindly who make it a problem.

Oh and by the way, just a minor bit... it`s religion -no matter which one- that made possible the greatest architectural artworks of history. The cathedrals, the mosquees, the pyramids, the buddhist temples... all of these are undisputably the most awe-inspiring buildings made by man, and yet it's faith that allowed these to be built. Living proof that faith is greater than anything else...

I don't think it's religion per se that keeps people in the dark, it's the heirarchal structure of organized religion that has a vested interest in keeping people from looking elsewhere for answers. If science, the paranormal, etc. provides information that cannot be reconciled with dogma, then the leaders of organized religion condemn it. It seems, from reading history and looking at the organized religions of today, that secular power and money is the real reason for such condemnation rather than any real question of faith. The greater the secular stake, the harsher the condemnation that comes from church hierarchy.

As to translation of the Bible into languages the common folk could understand, remember that Peter Waldo was the first to translate the Vulgate into a common tongue, and as he became more familiar with the Scriptures, he became angered at the way the medieval church had corrupted the teachings of Jesus for its own profit. The Waldesians were declared heretics, and were even the subject of persecution and a mini-Crusade. Yet even their enemies could not condemn their piety, only that the Waldesians opposed the doctrines of the Church (i.e. the status quo). The Huguenots were another group persecuted for believing that people were better off with faith than organized religion, and there are many other examples.

Originally posted by Scat
Theres a big difference between Religion and Faith that alot of people just dont see.

Like the difference between Knowledge and Wisdom.

To me, religion gives little light to the path of faith in any way whatsoever. But with faith, religion isnt necessary.

Yes, you are right Scat. I, for instance, am wholeheartedly against religion. That does not mean, however, that I do not have faith. I do have faith that everything that is imaginable is possible, and although it is not and never will be proven by science, I know that it is true.

from(The Bible Fraud , by Tony Bushby )Pope Leo X (1513-1521) " How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us."
Just who where the parents of Jesus Christ, Christian Dogma would have you believe that Mary was a simple Jewish girl who miraculously conceived a child and remained a virgin as a result of devine intervention.
It is known by myself and many other scholars that historical documentation dose exist in Greek Latin and Hebrew that clearly give the genological tree of Mary and and the twins she bore Yes! (I said twins) the church has strived for two thousand years to conceal the truth.
The Gospels of Matthew and Luke stated that Jesus Christ was the first born of Mary and Joseph and that he had four younger brothers and at least two sisters(Mark 3:6) Ther Roman Chatholics would have you believe that these were the children of Joseph from another marriage . BUT! (Matt.1:25) eliminates the church's contention that mary was a perpetual virgin. and from the statments of Mark and Matthew it is clear that the brothers and sisters were subsequent children of Mary in the fullest sense.
Joseph returned to Galilee with the intention of marrying Mary. They were betrothed according to the Gospels However upon his return it is apparent that Mary "was with child "(Luke 2:5) and it *could not be hid from Joseph" from the description of the Gospels it was clear that Joseph was not the biological father of Marys child (turned out to be twins) So who was the father???
A common applelation for Jesus in the Talmud was Yeshu'a ben Panthera this alludes to the Jewish belief that Jesus was the result of of an illegitamate union between his mother and a Roman soldier named Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera , an archer, native of Sidon, Phoenicia , who in 9AD who was transferred to service in Rhineland (Germany)
Scholars have for centures, discussed at length why Jesus was so regularly called ben Panthera. Adamantius Origen, an early christian historian and church father(185-251),recorded the following verses about Mary from the research records of a highly regarded Second century historian and author named Celsus (c.178):
Mary was turned out by her husband, a carpenter by profession,after she had been convicted of unfaithfulness. Cut off by her spouse, she gave birth to Jesus a bastard; that Jesus on account of his poverty was hired out to go to Egypt: that while there he aquired certain (magical)powers which the Egyptians pride themselves on possessing. Later in passages 1:32, Origen supported the Jewish records and confirmed that the paramour of the mother of Jesus was a Roman soldier calles Panthera a name he repeated in verse1:69 Some time during the 17 century the sentences were erased from the oldest Vatican manuscripts and other codices under church control.
The traditional church writings of St. Epiphanius, the Bishop of Salamis (315 - 403 ) again confirm the ben Panthera story So thus we have two early champians of Christian orthodoxy and a saint of Roman Chatholicism frankly stated : Jesus was the son of a certain Julius whose surname was Panthera.
In the sacred book of the Muslems , the Koran. it is stated that "a full-grown man' forced his attentions on Mary, and in her fear of disgrace that would follow she left the area and bore Jesus in secret. ( Rape was a common event in palistine during the Roman occupation and soldiers were notorious for treatment of young women. It would be unthinkable for Mary to admit such an event had occurred for , under the law of Moses, a betrothed virgin who had sex whith any man during the period of her betrothal, was to be stoned to death by the men of the city(Deut.22:21)
The majority of this article was derived from the Book ( The Bible Fraud --- written by TONY BUSHBY) Much more about the genology of Mary and much more a real eye opener

pantheria,

I had read this version of the story of jesus and family, one advise get ready for the religious and righteous to nail you, next make sure you have some references about this, they are going to get you.

People tend to react to anything that brings long held assumptions in to question in a very hostile way, no one likes being lied too they have a right to be angery just be sure that frustration is directed in the right direction.

There's been at many times in history forces of authority which keep the most brillant people from advancing in their works and bringing it as a contribution to mankind, but taht doesn't have anything to do with religion... These are only forces of authority. Man creating prisons for man. Humans controlling the lives of other humans, erroneously thinking that they have Justice and legitimity to do so! The problem is about CONTROL, social control... it's not about Faith.

for about 1800 years of the CE the Church was the Government, the powers that be as it were.

Has anyone noticed that societies in which Christianity is the dominant religion are the most technologically advanced? That the citizens are treated more humanely?

lets see. Argentina, Columbia, Brazil, Italy ( especially during WWII) Spain,
and im sure i left someone out .

During the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church hoarded knowledge

and still does today.

Does religion hinder progress? Yes and here is why.

Religion is based on tradition and prior events. Since religions are fixated with specific historical occurances or writings (ideas) (ie. Christian bible, Koran, etc.) they are not allowed to change or evolve, to deviate that much from the original idea. This goes against the very definition of progress or evolution.

Now if you mean "keep people in the dark" as in hindering progress, then yes it does.

Originally posted by Jonna
Does religion hinder progress? Yes and here is why.

Religion is based on tradition and prior events. Since religions are fixated with specific historical occurances or writings (ideas) (ie. Christian bible, Koran, etc.) they are not allowed to change or evolve, to deviate that much from the original idea. This goes against the very definition of progress or evolution.

Now if you mean "keep people in the dark" as in hindering progress, then yes it does.

Excellent explanation. I shall use that often, if you don't mind!

Originally posted by iceofspades
Excellent explanation. I shall use that often, if you don't mind!

No problem. I should have worded it a bit better, but you obviously caught the idea that I was attempting to convey.

People can hate religion or the church for many (usually personal and possibly valid) reasons - but generalizing and saying that religion, organized or otherwise, is "bad" because it stands in the way of progress is not correct.

Can you say "Protestant reformation?" Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism is the most famous look at this issue.

In 1904 the sociologist Max Weber published The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. Weber argued that the Reformation, that is the 16th century movement which challenged the hegemony of the Catholic Church and saw the emergence of new Protestant religions, such as Lutheranism, Calvinism, Methodism, was a precondition to the growth of modern capitalism.

Hope that helps!
P.

Originally posted by Pauldoe
Can you say "Protestant reformation?" Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism is the most famous look at this issue.

Indeed, the Protestant reform was a step in the right direction. However, you fail to realize that there are different levels of impedment that occur as a result of religion. Roman Catholics, for example, are much more regressive than say modern Deists. Protestants although reformed to a more progressive stance are still a road block for society.

I love religion, I feel strongly that any one who rejects it is ignorant. Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion and some say ignorance is bliss. Church is just a governing body and since humans run it, it is going to be flawed. The close mindness in some followings is still holding us back, extreme views fueled by religion still play a big role in the US government, like it or not.

Originally posted by jrod
I love religion, I feel strongly that any one who rejects it is ignorant. Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion and some say ignorance is bliss. Church is just a governing body and since humans run it, it is going to be flawed. The close mindness in some followings is still holding us back, extreme views fueled by religion still play a big role in the US government, like it or not.

I don't think you understand the difference between religion and faith, do you? Being against religion has nothing to do with others' faiths or opinions.

Yes i undersand the difference between religion and faith, im not some lost idiot here. Those who reject religion tend to lack any sort of faith in my observation.

for about 1800 years of the CE the Church was the Government, the powers that be as it were.

You'd better read your history books once again... or change the sources! So the Catholic Church has been the one and only governing body in the World for the past 1800 years???

First if all, Christianity was introduced only during the 19th century in Asia, and in America since the 16th century. In Africa, Christianity might exist since the beginning of colonization by European empires around the 16th or 17th century. As for Russia, well it`s only since Tsar Alexander that Christianism is there. So before the 16th century, Christianity was dominant only in Europe and Middle-East (well, until Muslims and the Ottoman empire just punched them out from Constantinople).

Secondly, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches of Europe never, ever had any direct power on nations or kingdoms as a governing body. Of course there were many feudal lords and kings that had to cope with Rome -or the Anglican Chruch for britons- in order to maintain their power and wealth, and most, but not all, were claiming to receive their authority from God. It`s no secret, also, that the Church has been "forcing" people in Europe, for many centuries, to convert themselves, go to church every week and pay tributes to the Church, but that was only since the Inquisition was created at the end of the Dark Ages, and it was far from being applied all trough Europe the same way. The Church never had any real political powers, aside from the ones it`s imposing on itself (the hierarchy and obedience). Before capitalist industrialism became dominant, and thus republican or "democratic" governments taking power, the feudal kingdoms were the sole government that existed. The Chuch was only been profiting, or parasiting the political powers of kingdoms for some centuries, but it had no real poers on the people as a public governing body.

for about 1800 years of the CE the Church was the Government, the powers that be as it were.

You'd better read your history books once more... or change your sources! So the Catholic Church has been the one and only governing body in the World for the past 1800 years???

First if all, Christianity was introduced only during the 19th century in Asia, and in America since the 16th century. In Africa, Christianity might exist since the beginning of colonization by European empires around the 16th or 17th century. As for Russia, well it`s only since Tsar Alexander that Christianism is there. So before the 16th century, Christianity was dominant only in Europe and Middle-East (well, until Muslims and the Ottoman empire just punched them out from Constantinople). So I don't know where you have found the 1800 years.

Secondly, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches of Europe never, ever had any direct power on nations or kingdoms as a governing body. Of course there were many feudal lords and kings that had to cope with Rome -or the Anglican Chruch for britons- in order to maintain their power and wealth, and most, but not all, were claiming to receive their authority from God. It`s no secret, also, that the Church has been "forcing" people in Europe, for many centuries, to convert themselves, go to church every week and pay tributes to the Church, but that was only since the Inquisition was created at the end of the Dark Ages, and it was far from being applied all trough Europe the same way. The Church never had any real political powers, aside from the ones it`s imposing on itself (the hierarchy and obedience). Before capitalist industrialism became dominant, and thus republican or "democratic" governments taking power, the feudal kingdoms were the sole government that existed. The Chuch was only been profiting, or parasiting the political powers of kingdoms for some centuries, but it had no real powers on the people as a public governing body.