White Magick doesn't exist!

reply to post by rogerstigers


If I may...?

I think the only boundary in existence is the duality inside the human mind.

Like when you are hungry you need food. In nature you will kill and eat no matter what. Killing by slow congestion fluids by a plant or strangled to death that last a 1000 years. Ripped to shreads or disolved by acid.

Only humans have empathy for their food.

"Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will"- Aleister Crowley

Basically I see Magick as a form of elevated prayer, taking your will and manifesting it to be so with all of your heart and soul. You have people that label the books as White magick because that is what they feel comfortable writing about and the audience they are writing for. Just like those who write books on Black magick,etc. Karma is strange for sure and who knows whether is just self fulfilling prophecy that we have made for ourselves or if it is "true law". it is all biased to your own reality tunnel though. love spells are generally not wise if you have a specific person in mind as you are going against that person's will. You would do a love spell to attract the type of person you are looking for. Be it as it may that there is no good/bad and all I still do my best to stay true to my will and personal morality by trying not to harm others.

reply to post by rogerstigers

Well, I think a healing spell for somebody who is sick can be white magic?

However there can be gray areas. Say somebody has lung cancer, and they still can't stop smoking.
Would it be right to perform a spell to make them quit?

Whatever, if it's an important and loved person in your life, you would do it, you would do anything...

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

I wish I could add to your collection of stars, but...

There is no White, or Black, ... good, or bad, .... and this isn't Kindergarten.

At the end of the day there is only my Will, and yours.

Prove to me that free will exists. We already know magic--black or white--does not.

reply to post by Astyanax

Agreed on problematic free will, but how exactly do we know that black or white magic does not exist?
I think most of the people here actually do believe it exists.
Actually I believe magic exists.
It is the moral and the terminology around it that is questionable.
Does magic always work as intended?
Perhaps not, but what does?

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Well, I think a healing spell for somebody who is sick can be white magic?

However there can be gray areas. Say somebody has lung cancer, and they still can't stop smoking.
Would it be right to perform a spell to make them quit?

Whatever, if it's an important and loved person in your life, you would do it, you would do anything...

edit on 25-10-2010 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

Smoking is a choice, you can't decide for others. If such a person would quit out of his or her own accord (whatever the reason, a new lover who doesn't smoke?) you could create a spell to temporarily strenghten that intention (the first days are the hardest) but you do not want to spend energy for the rest of your life to make sure a person doesn't quit. Every time the "target" would have a craving, the spellcaster would have to suppress it, this has to cost something. Unless you change something of the "target" but that would be the blackest of magic imho, might as well call it mindcontrol, the target would only become an automaton.

Where would such an intention to protect loved ones against themselves lead to? Might as well use every spell to completely isolate someone from the world and all it's possible dangers, even though free will goes down the drain in the process.

What about speech, suppose I would say all these things to a woman to seduce her and I would do this everyday for the rest of my life, would this be a kind of lovespell, one that has to be renewed each day?

What if I cast a lovespell on this woman and we would be together the rest of our lives because of this spell, but that it would make her seem happy, would she be more genuinely happy with or without love spell?

What if a woman happens to be a witch, wouldn't she want to be courted by love spells?

Point being there are strong willed people and weak willed people, then there are strong willed people who are magic users, then there are weak willed people who want to learn in order to become of a stronger will. If everyone was of equal will power, spells based on will would not work. Maybe it is a mechanism of nature.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Astyanax

 

Agreed on problematic free will, but how exactly do we know that black or white magic does not exist?
I think most of the people here actually do believe it exists.
Actually I believe magic exists.
It is the moral and the terminology around it that is questionable.
Does magic always work as intended?
Perhaps not, but what does?

If I were to travel back in time and used a wifi remote to show the medieval folks a slide show on a big tv screen, they would have thought it was magic.

Let's say there's some energy surrounding this planet, yet undetectable by scientific devices, scientists would not even be able to imagine such a field let alone create a device to detect and measure it, does that mean it does not exist?

There is free will, there are an infinite number of ways to express it yet the human being wielding that will cannot imagine all the ways yet and in this finite existence where there are many beings whose wills coincide it appears there is only a limited number of ways to express one's will.

Egocentric?
Let me have a go at it.
White or black it doesn't matter, it's all my universe anyway.

Bleh

Why do I never hear people agonizing over prayers? All prayers are evil because they interfere with free will.
If you pray for money you are taking it away from someone else. If you pray for love you are interfering with the free will of another. Oh, I don't get that right? Can't or shouldn't compare the two?

Maybe because that is YOUR universe, and THIS is MINE.

You take the rosary, I'll take the witch's brew. I'm not afraid to burn so I'm not afraid to fly.

reply to post by Dragonfly79

I think that if you are crazy enough about a woman to cast a love spell, then there are already energies between you.
Magic can not do movie miracles, it works with wavelengths that already exist.
For example, there are love spells for gay men, but alas, I cannot turn a straight man gay - that spell just doesn't exist. (He, he - that's why I stock up on Tequila and straight porn - joke.)
So magic also works with realism.
So magic is also growing in maturity in that way - to change what we can, and accept that many things we cannot change.
Sometimes it's a big circle and we don't know what influenced what - but, if it all seems natural and falls into place then our magic was a part of it all. And that, is the joy of white magic.

reply to post by Dragonfly79

Just to add on the smoking with lung cancer - here it is more likely to be a parent or grandparent.
As for controlling their lives, I see your point.
But, do nicotine addicts really have a choice?
I don't think so, not from what I see in that case.

reply to post by hadriana


Wow... I don't know how you got the idea my comment in any way related to rosary, prayer or what have you, but you certainly proved you own limits when you claim to live in your own subjective universe. You seem to know for sure... like any dogmatist (Christian or otherwise). ... and egocentric?,... for sure!

Thought energy is magic.

The quality of that magic depends on the individual.

Reply to post by xiphias

Agreed! Always be mindful of your thoughts,words and actions. Especially your thoughts. We should never wish bad things on others as it creates the same outcome any witch or magician can using potions and spellcasting. It is the intent of the thoughts being focused that bring it to fruition imho.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Mumbotron
reply to post by hadriana

 

Wow... I don't know how you got the idea my comment in any way related to rosary, prayer or what have you, but you certainly proved you own limits when you claim to live in your own subjective universe. You seem to know for sure... like any dogmatist (Christian or otherwise). ... and egocentric?,... for sure!

Actually, I suspect my comments were too deep for you to dive for.

You are confused of white magic. TRUE people in white magic NEVER have orgasm or release semen!!!NEVER!!! People in white magic never use magic to others. Especially at their will. White magic is all about the real being. Anyone who says they are in white magic, or white logos, and HAS ORGASM, is a false. People in white magic do the will of the REAL BEING.

inverencial peace to all!!

Originally posted by halfoldman
OK, maybe I should re-phrase that as a question, since I'm not really sure.

Of course, magick and it's cousin prayer can arise from morally complicated situations, where one may wish for an outcome that is based on various, complex emotions.

What about a love spell, a banning spell towards a person, or a protection spell that bounces the evil intention back to the sender?

I'd say all such spells interfere with the happiness of another person, and they are indeed intended black magick.
Why the hypocrisy?
A bouncing spell is tit-for-tat, a love spell undermines another's free will, and any spell affecting another person is unwanted interference (assuming any of it works).

Really not any hypocrisy going on love spells that are considered "white" are generally not directed at any specific person, but rather for God/ The Universe/ Whatever to draw a suitable love to you.

One that bounces the evil intention back isn't really a will breaker either, as it only would have any effect on someone trying to do you harm. You did not ask them to do something to you, they chose to do that on their own and are only getting back what they sent your way, for you it is karmicly null.

But in all generality "white" spells do not typically involve the bending of anyones free will, and even then it could be a little subjective, such as in the example of the smoker who couldn't quit. If they asked you for it your on good ground if you do it without permission your not.

In the example of asking for or attracting money, it isn't a bad thing you are not taking it from anyone else. It is Gods money all of it, and there is no scarcity of it.

The popular Western magic at the moment does seem rather sanitized.
In South Africa there is a widespread belief in witchcraft. One guy I heard of went to a sangoma (traditional healer/witchdoctor) to make this woman he was dating fall into everlasting love with him.
He was given some herbs to drink which caused him to vomit in a pot. He had to use this pot to cook his date one meal per day for a week. Well, so far so good.
A widespread love-spell involves the woman not washing for a number of days, then rubbing herself in fat and scraping the mixture off. The resulting paste is then cooked into food and given to the object of affection as a meal.
Yum, yum...
I guess what you don't know can't hurt you.

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst
There is no White, or Black, ... good, or bad, .... and this isn't Kindergarten.

At the end of the day there is only my Will, and yours.

who wants it more ? perceived outcomes are negligable.

edit on 24-10-2010 by IntastellaBurst because: (no reason given)

This pretty much sums it up..

Let's just speculate that "magick works", it makes you question: what do you really need? And how that contradicts with what you want? One of the biggest gifts of esoteric studies is the self knowledge and something that could be called "illumination" (at least on some level).

But I think that magic is simply a shortcut to achieve things you should work for. So usually you have to pay a price for it.. unless performed from completely unselfish basis (does that even exist?).

Originally posted by halfoldman
OK, maybe I should re-phrase that as a question, since I'm not really sure.

Of course, magick and it's cousin prayer can arise from morally complicated situations, where one may wish for an outcome that is based on various, complex emotions.

One thing I've noted about "white magicians" is that they follow religious terms like "karma" (reap what you sow), or "no curses".
What about a love spell, a banning spell towards a person, or a protection spell that bounces the evil intention back to the sender?

I'd say all such spells interfere with the happiness of another person, and they are indeed intended black magick.
Why the hypocrisy?
A bouncing spell is tit-for-tat, a love spell undermines another's free will, and any spell affecting another person is unwanted interference (assuming any of it works).

If it was ever proven that spells or prayers really worked, there would be a lot of lawsuits for psychic assault or religious manslaughter.

edit on 24-10-2010 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

Number one you need to study before making assumptions as assanine as these.
One:"banning spells" or really binding spells is the correct term, and it is to bind a person from causing the one doing the binding any harm. If they weren't causing havoc in the first place, there would be no reason to bind them, this spell just stops them from continuing, and it is for protection, let me ask you if you had a gun and someone comes into your home uninvited and has a knife and cuts you, what're you going to do? shoot him to protect yourself right, well same concept! A love spell should never be used on any particular target a love spell following thecorrect guidelines is to only attract the right person to you, to make your being meet with the one who should be your perfect "IDEA" of a partner but never intended for a particular person as a target. If you are using a protection spell against someone who is sending negative energy to you that bounces it back to them, oh well, they made their own bed, If they were not being evil to begin with it would not be, so if they stop, it will also stop. But in my case I usually just use a basic protection spell which blocks it from ruining me and sends it back to the Earth or it will disperse it generally I do not use the ones that send it back to he sender. But I am very extra super cautious myself. Anyway thats about all you asked about.

In my beleif Generally, you never use a target for a love spell you just list the qualities you would like in the person and physical attributes and stuff that is very generalized, and I beleive in never sending the negativity back to the source, but just to keep it away from me, and bindings I have not actually have ever had to use...
My philosophy is you never ever mess with a person's freewill, or send back bad energy because it always come back to you threefold!

reply to post by halfoldman

Agreed on problematic free will,

Yet many modern soi-disant magicians have stated that magic is nothing but the trained exercise of the will. Crowley famously wrote, 'Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law.' Magic demands the existence of free will; it cannot exist in a deterministic universe.

but how exactly do we know that black or white magic does not exist? I think most of the people here actually do believe it exists.

Well, their belief does not make it so. Magic is the child of wishful thinking.

I could give a long list of proofs to show why magic cannot exist, but then I should appear to be in the same case as the Jesuit astronomer who produced forty-odd arguments against Newton's Principia. So rather, I shall confine myself to just two disproofs, namely

1. The principles of magic are fallacious.
   
2. Evidence of magic at work is lacking.

The principles of magic are two in number.

First, like breeds like. This implies that if certain actions are carried out correctly, results bearing a symbolic relationship to those actions can be brought about. So shamans pour water on the ground in hopes of making rain, and Arab sorcerors hammer a nail into a board and tie a scarab to the nail with thread, believing the inward spiral of the beetle's course will draw their enemies to them that they might do them harm. Clearly this is a specious and childish way of reasoning, unfounded in logic or experience.

Second, virtue is transferred by contiguity. The bone of a saint contains some of his holiness. Ash from a funeral pyre added to someone's food makes them waste away and die. Again, this is unfounded in both logic and experience.

Some people like to quote a third magical principle, 'as above, so below', but it is only a restatement of the first.

As we can see at a glance, these principles are fallacious. Still, we might yet believe in magic if there were any evidence that it works. Sadly there is none. All over the world, magic-workers have been exposed as frauds, often self-deluding ones, such as this Tantric guru exposed on Indian television.

I live in a famously superstitious South Asian country. I have seen more of this kind of thing than you might believe exists. None of it convinces.

Actually I believe magic exists.

You have my sympathies. To believe in magic is to live in a world of irrationality and terror. Free yourself and feel the world open up to you like a flower.