The case for Quetzalcoatl

It is believed by many that Christ visited the ancient Americas during his ministries. I present some information on this topic and request further discussion since I am just starting my research into this.

...his story is found most frequently in North American legends, which reveal more infor- mation about his appearance and the nature of his arrival. In Middle and South America, he was known respectively, as the "Feathered Serpent" (the Mayas' Kukulcan and Aztec Quetzalcoatl), and "Sea Foam", Kon-Tiki- Viracocha, to the Incas. North of the Rio Grande River, he is generally referred to as East Star Man, Peace Maker, Pale One, Dawn Star, etc.

Native accounts tell of his arrival from the direction of the rising sun, after which he set up a priest- hood among his followers, known as the "Wau-pa-nu" (the spelling is phonetic). They were said to have healed the sick and instituted new laws. Blood sacrifice was for- bidden and replaced by the use of tobacco, today an important element in all traditional Native American ceremonies. Among many eastern tribes, East Star Man is regarded as the son of the Great Spirit, the Creator.

www.ancientamerican.com...

BEHOLD MY HANDS

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a1e2b3c3b3fc.jpg[/atsimg]

Excerpt below from Dr. Steven Jones
Retired Professor, [email protected]
who is Dr. Jones?
web.archive.org...://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/greener%20figure.jpg

The Bible states that Jesus "showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days" and that this witness of Christ would be "unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:3-8) and that Jesus would indeed visit "other sheep" (John 10:16).

Several years ago, an idea popped into my head: Would people in the New World who also saw Jesus Christ leave memorials of this supernal experience by showing marked hands of Deity in their artwork? So I began a search with the following hypothesis-to be tested: Ancient artwork portraying a deity with deliberate markings on his hands will be found somewhere in the Americas. A crazy idea, maybe - but wait till you see the artwork of the ancient Maya!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c076ab5dd0be.jpg[/atsimg]

web.archive.org...://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/handstext+and+figures.htm

Another website reveals this;

www.yucatan-revealed.com...

When the Spanish first came to the Yucatan in the early part of the sixteenth century they encountered amongst the native Maya, many Christian like observances and practices; baptism, blessings, washing and anointings and a strong belief in a God who had come down out of heaven to bless the sick, heal the infirm and raise the dead.

Lizana, an early Spanish historian of the 17th century wrote of the Maya:

“The King or false God Itzamna, was represented by the Indians in the form of a hand and they say that the sick and dead were brought to him and that the God cured them by touching them with his hand and that is why the temple is called Kabul, which means the miraculous hand, the temple where so many miracles were performed was the object of numerous pilgrimages.”

The apostle John recorded in the New Testament that shortly before his death, Jesus proclaimed;
“I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep and am know of mine. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; they also I must bring and they shall hear my voice and there shall be one voice and one shepherd. “
Many biblical scholars have pondered over the meaning and fulfillment of these words.

Christ’s words seem clear that there were others, other than those He had been ministering to in Israel, that He would minister too. Who would learn to know him as well.

However, His statement came at the very end of His mortal ministry and either the New Testament writers failed to record the events that would clarify his meaning or they were fulfilled after His resurrection and were unknown to his disciples in the Holy Land.
With this in mind it is interesting to note that there are numerous accounts of early Spanish soldiers and priests who destroyed Maya images, which were considered sacrilegious because they portrayed the Mayan God Itzamna with pierced hands, similar to the hands of the crucified Christ, and in some cases holding a sacramental type cup.

Is it possible then that Jesus, after his crucifixion and resurrection, visited the Mayan world and left his stamp so firmly upon it that 2,000 years later there would still be evidence of there once having been a belief in him?

This question has long been avoided by archaeologists and anthropologists, despite significant evidence of a real Christ-like figure, because to even examine it would require one to make certain assumptions that are taboo in the scientific world. These assumptions all relate to the reality of God and are:
That the man Jesus of Nazareth actually lived.

Although this is universally accepted as true by Christians, there are many that still debate its reality.

That the man Jesus of Nazareth was actually the Son of God and that although he was born into mortality and lived as a man, he nevertheless had power over life and death.

This assumption is highly disputed even amongst seminary students and doctors of theology. A recent poll indicates that a large percentage of those who enter the Christian ministry believe that Christ was a great teacher and that his philosophy was a blueprint to happiness, but do not believe that he was actually born of a virgin, nor that he was literally the Son of God and the creator of heaven and earth.

That Jesus was crucified and then rose from the dead. That he showed himself first unto his disciples as recorded in the gospels and then unto thousands and that he retained his mortal body, with the marks of the crucifixion in it, as recorded in the 24th chapter of Luke.

Even amongst those of the Christian faith this is a highly disputed topic.

That as a resurrected being, Jesus rose into the heavens and then crossed continents and oceans to visit and declare his word to a people that lived half a world away in Mesoamerica.

This requires no more of a miracle than to raise from the dead. But, it meets with great resistance amongst the academic world because there are no known scientific laws to explain how he could do this without the aid of advanced modes of travel.

The Mormons seem to be in line with this belief.

Native American spiritual traditions contain several shadows and semblances of the visitation of the Messiah to this continent. The oral histories of many tribes include one or more stories of a personage visiting them long ago, which are very similar to what the Nephite Record teaches about the Savior’s visit to the land of American.
One of the accounts about which there is surviving information is the Mayan tradition of Itzamna [also spelled Itzam-Na]. Itzamna was worshipped as a god by the Mayan people – as the Creator of mankind and heavenly beings. Itzamna was believed to have been the Great High Priest; He appointed the first Mayan priests, and from Him they received their priestly authority. Itzamna was considered to have been the founder of the Mayan empire. The ancient Mayan priests told the story that Itzamna died, descended into he earth and then rose again from the grave, having overcome death. Tradition says that He gave sacred writings and books to the ancient Mayan people. These are conspicuous things about Itzamna that excite the interest of people who are familiar with the Nephite Record.
The Nephite Record records the event of the Messiah visiting the native peoples of America, following his resurrection. During His visit, He invited the people to “feel the prints of the nails in My hands and in My feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world. And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into His side, and did feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record that it was He of whom it was written by the prophets that should come.” [3 Nephi 11:14-15]
There are a number of ways in which the many Mayan drawings and statues of Itzamna parallel Jesus Christ. Itzamna was almost always portrayed with pierced hands [and, often, with pierced feet]. In some images, Itzamna is depicted as holding his hands out in front of himself, as if he were showing the holes to someone. [Note the large holes in the hands of the statue of Itzamna.] The glyph symbol that represents Itzamna is a hand with a hole in it. Itzamna’s face was most often portrayed with high cheekbones, a narrow nose, and sometimes wearing a beard...
www.lionofgod.com...

So is it true? Did Christ visit early Americas?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0f8b86609f06.gif[/atsimg]
clay tablet unearth in Michigan in the early 1800's

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/82c9a2202d12.jpeg[/atsimg]
oldest depiction of Christ found in the Dominican republic 16th century.


More interesting reading:
taleof2nations.blogspot.com...

Not scriptural and thus not acceptable by true Christians.

Not to sound putting-off, just a cold, hard opinion. I commend you for the research, though. The only thing considered compelling was the 1800s piece of art, but thats 1800 years for the gospel to reach the area, which it probably did in one way or another.

reply to post by againuntodust

So your belief is that if it isn't in the "scriptures" (Bible) then it has no basis?
The only mention of it is when he states that other sheep he has that are not of this fold, He couldn't actually say "I have more people in America" since this continent hadn't yet been discovered. How would they mention a continent that didn't yet exist, in their eyes?

In the Mohawk language his name is Tekanawita. It means Peacemaker. When he came to us, the Iroquois,we were fighting amongst ourselves. He brought us The Great Law. It united the nations and we became the Iroquois Confederacy. He was born of a virgin birth. He came to us paddling a stone canoe. Some people here believe that he was Christ. We have a great feathered serpent in our traditions. What amazes me are the parallels between the cultures.

Great amount of compelling research. I obviously need to spend a bit more time reading this. I've spent much much time attempting to connect the dots over the years. I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. I am completely intrigued by how many variations of the "same" religion could just "pop up" in so many places at once.

A thousand different angles exist through which a distorted view may develop. I've decided that because I can decide, I can see. . .and what I see is that the moon is the moon, no matter the name. Such should be the case for the name of any saviour, villain, or god.

I find this highly ironic that it was so many years ago after purchasing a vase that depicted the feathered serpent that I began researching. It was my, either blessed or cursed, luck, that I arrived at ATS.

Perhaps I am conducting a temporal experiment, and I have arrived at the point when I realised I have contacted myself from an older post, so many years ago! Wait. . .this is what year?

Feathered Serpent.. more than likely he was just another advanced entity who came with the fire of Prometheus.

I hope someone gets that. lol

hint: Light Bearer.

reply to post by purplemonkeydishwasher


I got it. . .until you wrote "I hope someone gets that."

Prometheus...not just talking chopped liver, I tell ya!

reply to post by Divine Strake


Not to mention the roundabout way of referencing Lucifer

Edit to add, Lucifer was a mistranslation from the very beginning - the original story in Aramaic speaks of a Babylonian prince who fell due to pride, from what I understand. Yeshua made reference to himself as the Light Bearer, also it is an astrotheologic reference to Venus.. but yar.. I digress a bit.

In what language would he have spoken to the Mayan people?

reply to post by purplemonkeydishwasher


Oops. My little thing under my name says lighter of lamps.
Too true, pride sure did him in. . .quite an achievement, something to write home about eh?

Needing sleep.

reply to post by serbsta


It's been my belief, that such an entity would be able to "speak" in such a way that it would be considered universal. I guess, a sort of telepathic way. Then again, some of these beings communicated by showing images "in the sky", or something similar.

I've heard that the voice of god is such that no mortal body could withstand the sound. . .that it would essentially obliterate all who "heard".

reply to post by serbsta


Must deception exist as the will of man, or does deception speak of its own will?
2nd.

Just sayin', I've been hovering around this thread, alas, nothing changes til morrow's break, eh? I wish you well in your research, just remember the volatilities of the written word. Deception is abound, tread well on broken stone. I am almost somewhat poetic when I've had no sleep.

Originally posted by serbsta
In what language would he have spoken to the Mayan people?

Here in this book HE WALKED THE AMERICAS by L. Taylor Hansen it tells of legends where he stayed with the tribes long enough to learn their language.
here is the book online (difficult to read due to the annoying background)
www.wolflodge.org...
or you can still buy the book at amazon,
www.amazon.com...

reply to post by i am just saying


Hmm, well we do not know everything that has happened in Jesus' life, there are many years which are unaccounted for. All we have is this:

(Luke 2:52) And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

www.rickrichards.com...

reply to post by serbsta

True, alot of his life was left out of the Bible by Constantine.

After all, he was the savior of the "world" not just the middle east.

reply to post by i am just saying

All of these symbols refer to the same Vision; a Vision referred to as the "Tree of Life" in Genesis 3:24, the Vision of the "Son of man" by Daniel, the "Vision of Knowledge" in the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the "Night Journey" of Mohamed (on al-Buraq) in the Quran.

This Vision is also symbolized by Pegasus and the caduceus--two serpents winding around a central winged staff echoing the symbolism of the crucifixion of Jesus "between two thieves at the place of the skull"--of Greek mythology; and the "Thunderbird" and the "Horse With No Name" of the American Indian tradition (and the song by the music group "America")...

Additional information about which is found on my website.

Michael