New EU Nations Bribed, page 2
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reply posted on 28-6-2004 @ 04:13 PM by StrangeLands
Originally posted by rustiswordz
im not interested in evidence, i know all i need to.


Yeah, I think that says it all. Whatever you do, Rusty, don't let the facts get in the way of good rant, will you?

liberals like you have my country by the balls and you love it dont you, absolutely love every miniute as you tear my country a new ar*ehole.


You know what? I do love it Rusty, I love every damn minute. I love the fact that, after all these years, your kind of politics is on the way out. I love that the dinosaurs of previous decades have been put out of their misery, and we're on the path to embracing intelligent argument as the means of resolving our problems. Most of all, I love that education and reason can defeat ignorance and petty fear every damn time.

And guess what, mate? It isn't your country. It's ours.




You make a good point about the timing, UK Wizard, and I understand people's reticence to "rush into" full integration. That's why I advocate a steady, "eyes wide open" approach, questioning and reforming at every point, but doing so in a good-natured, inclusive fashion.

The "fascist threat" I referred to was the rise of the right-wing parties all across Europe - the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, we've all been having more and more problems with neo-nazi thugs lately. I was merely pointing out to Good Old Rusty that it's the skinhead fascists who are pursuing an agenda of national seperatism - just like he is.

IRONY ALERT

To be honest, I don't know enough about the fishing policies to argue the point with you. I do know that living here in the north of Scotland, I can see the effects of a dying fishing industry every time I drive along the coast. Let me look into it, and we'll debate it another time.



reply posted on 29-6-2004 @ 09:50 AM by UK Wizard
I've done a little bit of research on the fisheries policies that the EU has and i'm disgusted

Link to site detailing EU stupidity on fish stocks:
news.bbc.co.uk...
and another one
www.greenconsumerguide.com...
and another
news.bbc.co.uk...

looks to me that the EU just wants to fish all the fish that are left,
the british fishing fleet is being cut as there is a limit on the amount of fish they can fish
but other european countries maintain their fishing fleet size by fishing in British waters, (we can't stop them because of EU laws)

this is the fishermen's point of view:
www.sovereignty.org.uk...

EU Law:
''British fishing grounds are due to become a 'common resource' for fleets from all over Europe under the existing policy."


The EU really does have something against the UK

[edit on 29-6-2004 by UK Wizard]


reply posted on 30-6-2004 @ 12:58 PM by StrangeLands
Okay, I've taken some time to study the information you linked to, and conduct a bit of research myself, and I've come to this startling conclusion.

I don't really know what your problem is, UK Wizard.

For those of you who haven't been following this fascinating issue - and I can't say I blame you - here are some of the interesting minnows I dredged up.

See? A fishing metaphor! Ha!

Fish stocks in the seas around Europe are dwindling fast. Because of overfishing, there are fewer fish than at any point in recorded history. Some people in the EU decided in the 1970s that, so that our children can enjoy a seafood platter when they are adults, stocks should be conserved and limits imposed on how much fish a given boat is allowed to catch. Straightforward enough, you might think, except that the EU has, rather than adopting a simple, transparent approach, created an incredibly complex set of rules knows as the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP). All the information you could possibly want on the CFP can be found
here.

So there have, in the past, been some conflicts about who can fish where, notably between the fishing fleets of the UK and Spain. Meanwhile, the amount of fish that a boat can catch in a given period is being reduced every now and then, to further protect the poor fishies while letting the fishing industry down gently. Now, it turns out, the EU hasn't been strict enough, and several species of fish are facing extinction in European waters. The solution should be fairly easy to see - tighten the restrictions!

But that, of course, isn't the problem. If rational debate and logic carried the day, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If only it were that simple.

The following quote comes from the last link you supplied, UK Wizard, to a statement by Mr. Tom Hay - click here.

British fishermen have since 1983 been ordered by this unelected bureaucracy to dump hundreds of thousands of tons of prime quality fish all dead back into the sea in the name of conservation, to pollute the fishing grounds in almost every area where our vessels operate.

That is a transgression against the highest moral law, since thousands, yes, millions die of starvation only a few hours flight from Britain's shores.


That's right, ladies and gentlemen, you did read that correctly. No, I know what you mean, but go back and read it again. It really is as crass and ridiculous as you thought it was.

Let me get this straight. British fishermen are being ordered to return some catches to the sea - not all dead, by any means, despite what he says - in the name of conservation, while some people are starving somewhere in the world? Is Mr. Hay suggesting that, if he were allowed to keep the excess fish which he shouldn't have bloody well caught in the first place, he'll go out to the Sudan and make everyone a tuna mayonnaise sandwich? I doubt it!

This is exactly the type of hysterical nonsense that gives the pro-fishing lobby a bad name, and leads to the public perception that our fishermen are being screwed. Mr. Hay doesn't have a problem with the EUs management of the seas, he has a problem with not being allowed to go out and catch every damn fish between Aberdeen and Norway!

So, in conclusion, UK Wizard, I'm not really with you on this one. Yes, there are legalistic loopholes, and yes, there has been some decision-making which could have been more transparent. I can see, too, how it seems that the UK has got a rough deal out of EU legislation on fishing, but, trying to be objective, I can see their point. Fish stocks must be conserved if there are to be any left in the future - and while the implementation of some of the legislation may be a bit questionable, it doesn't change the fact that fishing industry throughout Europe is too damn greedy and needs to be cut back.

And if the problem is one of communication and transparency, surely that's another argument in favour of closer ties with the EU. If we're on the inside, we can examine and influence the whole process, and ensure that, in the future, British fishermen aren't penalised because our politicians aren't in Brussels arguing in their defence.
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