WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

reply to post by neo96


One of my best friends from school (Danny :'(), who I loved, respected and sorely miss, was killed over there, I hold no hatred to the civilian population, we are trying to bring peace, that's a good thing, but civilian deaths aren't gonna win the coalition brownie points with the locals!

Originally posted by jaynkeel

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
NBC just reported that the pentagon says that the information should have never gotten to the public in the first place....

REALLY? REALLY?


That can't seriously be what they think shouldn't have happened in the first place.... perhaps the most recent place, but not the first place....

This shouldn't even be an issue in the first place....Meaning it never should have happened. Just to clarify I am talking about the actual crimes that were supposedly committed, I say supposedly because I have not had the liberty to review everything yet, just basing judgment on what I have seen thus far and heard.

I agree wholeheartedly...

reply to post by woogleuk


This is why it appears so counter productive to me to have condoned all of this...

Originally posted by woogleuk
USA Citizens, most of you are decent people, who's hearts are in the right places take a stand for the reputation of your country, yes your troops fight for a reason, but this is unacceptable, for the love of god, show the world you are good people and cry out against this massacre of innocent human beings. Most of your troops will be decent people, some of the above figures probably were unavoidable, but not all.

u r correct, there are lots of good people here
in the US. I am taking a stand, but there is
only so much a disabled man can do.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


and just how would you have stopped it? how? the us couldnt have done nothing

man quoting a christian belief in a predominately muslim country well maybe if they were christian maybe the torture wouldnt have occured.

its like me telling you to stop doing something really how can i make you do anything that you want to do?

Originally posted by woogleuk
A small selection of civilian casualties due to the USA:

Japan 1945: 393,367

I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, the Empire of Japan started World War 2?

How does this grab you: The Rape of Nanking. Do some research and get back to me when you're through.

reply to post by woogleuk


first off you have my most sincere condolences of the loss of your friend.


there is noone that likes civilian deaths but they happen and sometimes they are unavoidable in a war

there is not one soldier in iraq or afghanistan that wake up and say hoooooooooorahhhh i wanna kill me some civis

not even your friend thought that i have problems with blanket statements about people who they dont know personally.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
No wonder so many military vets
commit suicide. They can't live
with this. And the top brass
wonders why they are doing it?

How about the vets are depressed because civilians that have never been in the military and have never been in combat and have never been in Iraq are constently screaming at them they are murderers without having a freakin' clue about what goes on over there?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

and just how would you have stopped it? how? the us couldnt have done nothing

man quoting a christian belief in a predominately muslim country well maybe if they were christian maybe the torture wouldnt have occured.

its like me telling you to stop doing something really how can i make you do anything that you want to do?

Given that there were so many civilian deaths caused by this, means that it was a lot of wasted effort, alot of wasted lives... in vain... for no reason...

I would have simply not allowed it to occur.... teach the beasts how to be civil and have pride in themselves but no... that's not what happened

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by woogleuk
A small selection of civilian casualties due to the USA:

Japan 1945: 393,367

I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, the Empire of Japan started World War 2?

How does this grab you: The Rape of Nanking. Do some research and get back to me when you're through.

Japanese civilians did not start WW2.
Their military did. The rate quoted was civilians.

And I know ur not trying to justify
civilian torture and murder with ur
comment? Are you?

reply to post by HunkaHunka

I would have simply not allowed it to occur.... teach the beasts how to be civil

i think your overestimating your own power the power you seek is that of what saddam gave himself

Originally posted by boondock-saint
Japanese civilians did not start WW2.
Their military did. The rate quoted was civilians.

And I know ur not trying to justify
civilian torture and murder with ur
comment? Are you?

Rape of Nanking. Check it out and get back to me. I'll give you a hint, Japanese Army personnel raped and murdered THOUSANDS of Chinese civilians.

Oh, and I really don't read too much about how Japanese civilians were protesting their governments involvement with the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I would have simply not allowed it to occur.... teach the beasts how to be civil

i think your overestimating your own power the power you seek is that of what saddam gave himself

Not at all.. its simply a matter of not condoning torture...

Originally posted by signal2noise
How about the vets are depressed because civilians that have never been in the military and have never been in combat and have never been in Iraq are constantly screaming at them they are murderers without having a freakin' clue about what goes on over there?

dude, I think ur getting ur conflicts mixed up.
That happened during Nam
but I have yet to see nothing
but support for our troops
in the ME.

people scream at the Gov and the
politicians and the pentagroin
but not the troops.
At least from what I have seen.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
dude, I think ur getting ur conflicts mixed up.
That happened during Nam
but I have yet to see nothing
but support for our troops
in the ME.

people scream at the Gov and the
politicians and the pentagroin
but not the troops.
At least from what I have seen.

Oh, really? I'm in the US military. I've been called a liar, a murderer, a war criminal. And all here, on wonderful ATS. You yourself said that it's genocide and a war crime.

wow....

talk about Genocide.........
[ yes, this is genocide]
look up the definition if you must.



nothing further to add......

Originally posted by signal2noise
Oh, really? I'm in the US military. I've been called a liar, a murderer, a war criminal. And all here, on wonderful ATS. You yourself said that it's genocide and a war crime.

what the people in authority in the military
did was war crimes. Are you the authority
for Iraq? Or do you take orders from your
1st Sgt? If you take orders, then the responsibility
of those crimes goes UP the ladder, not down.
the person in authority is held responsible
for the actions. So if u were taking orders
and following them, then u should have
the sense to know those comments were
NOT directed at you .... but your superiors.

Oh, really? I'm in the US military. I've been called a liar, a murderer, a war criminal. And all here, on wonderful ATS. You yourself said that it's genocide and a war crime.

I'm not attacking you at all here, i'm just curious.

How is it that you serve under liars, murderers and war criminals yet don't consider yourself part of the problem?

Again, i'm really not attacking you just trying to understand where you are at.

Cheers

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by woogleuk

 

first off you have my most sincere condolences of the loss of your friend.

Thank you

there is noone that likes civilian deaths but they happen and sometimes they are unavoidable in a war

there is not one soldier in iraq or afghanistan that wake up and say hoooooooooorahhhh i wanna kill me some civis

For the most part, yes. But the army, just like civilians has it's wackos, you hear about rape stories committed by the "good guys" and beatings and such like, look at that Canadian commander who has just been jailed for torturing and sexually abusing one of his own troops, and he was high up in the ranks! Of course there are soldiers there who just want to kill people regardless, and there is mis-communication between ground forces and aerial, there is loads of reasons why it happens, and it needs sorted!

It only takes a few idiots to make the majority look like muppets.

what the people in authority in the military
did was war crimes. Are you the authority
for Iraq? Or do you take orders from your
1st Sgt? If you take orders, then the responsibility
of those crimes goes UP the ladder, not down.
the person in authority is held responsible
for the actions. So if u were taking orders
and following them, then u should have
the sense to know those comments were
NOT directed at you .... but your superiors.

So, if going by your way of thinking, I could be a hired hitman taking orders to kill yet not be personally responsible? The person paying me is the one and only criminal?

Cheers