WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


Just FYI.
It is not war that is killing us.
Next time just Google causes of death.
Now that's entertainment.

reply to post by flyingfish


Malignant neoplasms is pretty high on the list.

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


Yes,Why would a organism kill it's host?
Answer.We are a veritable multiplication machine. Should the host die that is an unfortunate side-effect. All a virus does is turn a cell into a virus-making factory.

Originally posted by Ahmose

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by Ahmose
I know exactly what it is,
no need to look it up.

"I" Don't have 'my own' definition of genocide,
Genocide is Genocide.

Only one definition.
No opinions,
no "what I think genocide is"..

Personal opinions/ideas dont matter here..
It is what it is.
Genocide.

Very simple.

Ill wait for you to pull up the definition.
It's a very simple one.

Now, go on and read what defines "Genocide"..
and then come back and honestly tell me that this is not genocide.

You couldn't.
Because it is.

Bull#. This isn't genocide.

Genocide is the systematic destruction of a group of people. Funny, when I was in Iraq, I wasn't doing anything of that sort. Horrible to admit, but if the US was committing genocide on the Iraqi people, we'd have wiped them out by now.

Looks like you're a no-go at this station. Move out and draw fire.

lol, riight.
whatever helps you sleep at night my friend.

I just want to comment on how funny it is that you made yourself look like an idiot over the definition of genocide then disappear for the next 12 pages =) God I hope somebody else noticed it. Made reading 18 pages worth it.

Most of the new information that can be gleaned from these documents only confirm what most already assumed. Torture has been an acknowledged tactic in US and Iraqi methods, albeit a tactic taboo to discuss in mainstream conversation. I am personally surprised, however, at the scarcity of files dealing with extraordinary rendition cases.

The bigger issue that has been brought to light thanks to Wikileaks' recent efforts are, in my opinion, the now proven links the Pakistani military, our supposed ally in the region, has to taliban elements in funding and intelligence. Where is the discussion on this? I haven't heard much at all, even though it eclipses the torture revelations in importance.

I agree with the OP there should be an investigation into the leadership reguarding FRAGO242.We claim to be the beacon of freedom and a champion of human rights the world over and yet here we are...

Anyone else spend hours clicking and realize that a lot of these deaths could for the most part not be considered our fault? Yeah we went in, but if they are killing each other in the process of trying to kill us the media shouldn't be covering this story like we are the ones doing the killing.

Rumsfeld corrects the Military Officer to say that he shouldn't intervene if torture is seen, just to report it.

Rumsfeld is as twisted as Sadam Hussein I guess, because Hussein didn't stop torture under his reign either. So should Rumsfeld meet the same end as Sadam Hussien? This is primarily why the rest of the muslim world hates us. Not that we have a different religion like some would have you believe, but because of the deepest, darkest, evil things we let some people perpetrate onto these other people.

Torture of a 15 year old boy?! We have progressed technologically, but stayed in the Middle Ages emotionally.

Originally posted by AndrewTB
Anyone else spend hours clicking and realize that a lot of these deaths could for the most part not be considered our fault? Yeah we went in, but if they are killing each other in the process of trying to kill us the media shouldn't be covering this story like we are the ones doing the killing.

And if the military officers saw your sister or brother being tortured, you'd be okay with having our troops just file a report. When it's not your family or friends you seem to feel it's okay.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
This is very disturbing...

I agree HunkaHunka.

Think if this happened in our country. An occupational force that bombed, used chemical weapons, raped, tortured, shot, ran over people, etc. It wouldn't be forgotten.

We've opened the seal to Pandora's Box and the next coming wars will crack the world open and cause rivers to run red. Hate and violence seems to be the only thing some people love, cause they certainly don't love people. I wish I could ship all the haters to another planet. I certainly don't want them here.

iraq is a mess and the US isn't helping...
but throughout this "discussion" i have only heard how everyone finds the situation (incl. the torture) horrible or not...
it has been primarily a discussion of personal values or even morality.
war is gruesome, ugly and cruel. always... the main problem we have with war is that all the "democratic" and "free" governments try to teach us that war can be humane... that there really is a "black and white"...
"We are the good guys!" Hollywood preaches heroism in battle... and the good guys dont torture bad guys...
the simple truth is that war is a demonstration of power... always selfish...
leaning towards the expansion of oneself or self preservation... as much as the US tries to make the Iraq War sound like the latter, Iraq or Afghanistan never were a serious threat...
the situation has worsened... the taliban have been strengthened... the islamist extremists have grown in power...
let us for one accept that war is selfish... despite all the propaganda... and then look at the torture videos...
they are a tool to fulfill a goal; held by someone who doesnt care about anyone except himself...
and yes... the situation is #ed up, but any one with any sense will not debate that...
the real question to ask is what can we do except debate?
now that wikileaks has so much proof against one of the greatest "democratic" civilizations against the world are we just going to sit at our screens and write deep and heroic thoughts on forums?
if we go to the root of the problem we find that it is actually in most of us... me included...
are we willing to give up our comfort... our electricity, our tv, our friends, our wife, our food, our future and even our freedom for someone else?
are we willing to stand up and truly risk our comfort for the freedom of a prisoner in guantanamo...
we are the change... and usually we dont change anything.
i have the feeling that soo much is said and agreed upon... everything is just right, going the right direction...
the runner is running towards the sand-pit... sprinting, everything is perfect... and in the end he just forgets to jump.

I have spent many years in Afghanistan, a couple in Pakistan and I know first hand what people suffer and what the media exaggerates or ignores...
We have the same problem today that Germany had before and during WW2... the Germans were to comfortable to do anything about the jews being deported... they chose to shut up and sit down... to close their eyes when they could...
but most of them would sit at the dinner-table and declare their anger or even their disgust if the matter was adressed... but only one in a million did anything...
nothing changed except that with the "freedom of speech" the dinner-table has grown...
now the dinner-table is on the inet and we can speak in relative safety...
but what are you willing to give up for someone else?

reply to post by ATSxOG


its all the same political crap...
the us knows about pakistans support of the taliban... everyone who does any research does.
pakistan supporte the taliban to keep them out of pakistan. that backfired.
maybe what the US is doing, is making sure the war stays in the Middle East so that it doesnt travel somewhere else... say eastern Europe or even North America...
while children die through IED's in Afghanistan, they dont die in the West.
It's selfish, it's ugly but it is disgustingly plausible.

reply to post by AndrewTB


Andrew, once again, FRAGO 242 made it like this.... The fault which should be called out is that our military peronsnnel wer ordered not to intervene when atrocities or war crimes we occurring....

It's called guilt by association...

Those who made this order are guilty of war crimes

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
The fault which should be called out is that our military peronsnnel wer ordered not to intervene when atrocities or war crimes we occurring....

It's called guilt by association...

Iraqi on Iraqi was not and is not considered "WAR CRIMES" that's the distinction....

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
The fault which should be called out is that our military peronsnnel wer ordered not to intervene when atrocities or war crimes we occurring....

It's called guilt by association...

Iraqi on Iraqi was not and is not considered "WAR CRIMES" that's the distinction....

If sodomy with a water bottle by police, while we turn a blind eye is not a war crime, then perhaps the definition is a bit acute.

Assange cries WAR CRIME and RAPE in iraq. When questioned of his own raping he gets upset and leaves an interview. We know who the RAPIST is don't we Assange>?
You speak the truth and the people will hate you for it.

Look around some people are still so stuck on Assenges left breast they can't see how he is just as bad as any government he keeps the CAVIER for himself (the insurance files) and feeds his people DOG FOOD (the so called old news top secret documents)

He cries rape and rapes women himself.....

You flash some money you can get people to say just about anything rape charges true or not say anything for cash. Assange you are discredited sir.

WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242
Very deceptive, there is no torture video its a rehashed you tube video with random pictures.

reply to post by thecinic

He cries rape and rapes women himself.....

Care to back that assertation up with proof?

The Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops occurred on March 12, 2006, in a house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, which is south of Baghdad, Iraq. Five United States Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with the crimes: (i) Sgt. Paul E. Cortez, (ii) Spc. James P. Barker, (iii) Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, (iv) Pfc. Brian L. Howard and (v) Pfc. Steven D. Green (whom the Army discharged before the crime's discovery). Abeer Qasim Hamza was raped and murdered, after her family was murdered: her mother, Fakhriyah Taha Muhsin, 34; father, Qasim Hamza Raheem, 45; and six-year-old sister Hadeel Qasim Hamza.[1] As of September 2009

Important Topic Updates
, Spielman and Green have been convicted and three others have pled guilty

en.wikipedia.org... extra DIV