WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You see what you want to see. Yes there are bad apples in every bunch, I thought this was a well known fact of life. It is that people (Al Jaz) take this illegal data dump of 400,000 incidents and focus right in on a few reports of bad apples. Why do so many of YOU ALL here choose to focus on this point. I look through those logs and I just see partly cryptic military reports from our boys doing a job in what we only can imagine is a hellish frightening experience. I suppose it is up to the Iraqis to decide what they focus on... my frustration is that my country seems to always be painted in a bad light when if you stop and think of it those men and women ARE trying to do good over there.

I just read the Yahoo! version of this article and here is what some people commented about the topic:

-ASSASSINATE THIS GUY!!!!
The CIA should have put a hit out on him months ago.
DEATH FOR TREASON!!!!!!!!!
KILL HIM

-timing of this seem a little strange , this guy is a left wing nut and they never supported
the war , only the destruction of this country. bunch of jerks,commies , marxist, garbage

-One solutions: strategic assassination of anybody involved in the leak or with wikileaks. problem solved.

-The CIA needs to kill this homosexual. Send a message to the others that might be so tempted.

-This man and company are enemies to the United States and we need to detain/kill him and destroy any infrastructure the company may have.
Obama needs to show he is the Commander and Chief of this country and go after these people with everything we have. Do it in the open and without mercy.
I doubt that Obama would have the balls to do this and he will continue to show how weak he is and make this country look like more of a joke.
They would have not tried this crap with GW.

-Hang this guy from the closest tree.

-Liberals love WikiLeaks. This Julian clown (who needs a good punch in the face) is a hero to them. Imagine a world without liberals. What a wonderful place. Free to do whatever you want. No one taking your money to give to another lazy good for nothing piece of trash entitlement collecting scumbag lying liberal.

-hes a child molesting predator i hope he gets gangraped in a prison cell

It is necessary, in regard to any war, to consider, not its paper justification in past agreements, but its real justification in the balance of good which it is to bring to mankind. At the beginning of a war each nation, under the influence of what is called patriotism, believes that its own victory is both certain and of great importance to mankind. The praiseworthiness of this belief has become an accepted maxim of common sense: even when war is actually in progress it is held to be natural and right that a citizen of an enemy country should regard the victory of his side as assured and highly desirable. By concentrating attention upon the supposed advantages of the victory of our own side, we become more or less blind to the evils inseparable from war and equally certain whichever side may ultimately prove victorious. Yet so long as these are not fully realized, it is impossible to judge justly whether a war is or is not likely to be beneficial to the human race. Although the theme is trite, it is necessary therefore briefly to remind ourselves what the evils of war really are...

Of all the evils of war the greatest, in my opinion, is the purely spiritual evil: the hatred, the injustice, the repudiation of truth, the artificial conflict, where, if once the blindness of atavistic instincts and the sinister influence of anti-social interests, such as those of armaments with their subservient press, could be overcome, it would be seen that there is a real consonance of interest and essential identity of human nature, and every reason to replace hatred by love. Mr. Norman Angell has well shown how unreal, as applied to the conflicts of civilized States, is the whole vocabulary of international conflict, how illusory are the gains supposed to be obtained by victory, and how fallacious are the injuries to which nations, in times of peace, are supposed to inflict upon each other in economic competition. The importance of this thesis lies, not so much in its direct economic application, as in the hope which it affords for the liberation of better spiritual impulses in the relations of different communities. To love our enemies, however desirable, is not easy; and therefore it is well to realize that the enmity springs only from blindness, not from any inexorable physical necessity.

Bertrand Russell, The Ethics of War, 1915.

Isn't it ironic that the United States used "Saddam tortured his own people" game to go to war with Iraq, but then when the same thing happens after we invade, we just don't give a damn?

Sickening.

there are many terrible and corrupt things happening in the world of which we have no knowledge about..

all and every action in there is illegal under international law not to mention the pretext for it to have ever even become a "combat zone"...

i mean if this is how you are outwards , how are you inwards ?

I am so glad these have been released, so that historians, looking back on this pre-emptive war, can judge it and its progenitors, accurately, instead of base on all the propaganda and distortion of the "MSM" rendered view. The whole thing can be placed at the feet of Bush/Cheney and Neocon Cabal Incorporated.

And then of course there's 9/11 as the pretext, and most of us here have a pretty good idea of what when down there, and so we're dealing with crimes, and hypocrisy of boundless measure, and that's the Iraq war, more than just an "error" but a CRIME of the farthest reaching historical proportions and significance, and this leak brings it into focus, as a snapshot of what's been going on over there all these years since "shock and awe" began.

reply to post by eLPresidente


Thank you for sharing their valuable insight!

This one really is a gem:

-hes a child molesting predator i hope he gets gangraped in a prison cell

What about Blackwater running amok and being so out of control and trigger happy that they fired on American troops?

We keep focusing on the rape and torture, but there's a lot more than that in there.

What about burning an infant courtesy Blackwater? (lol, name changed to protect the guilty)

You know what... im against the War and all but this really doesnt have anything to do with the United States.

What do you want the US to do? Iraqi authorities are hired by Iraq not the US. We need the Iraqi authorities help and investigating them and arresting them for whatever they do is not going to help us in the war. Its a war, sometimes you gotta do some # thats not ethical. If anything, this proves that the US did not torture any prisoners.

Originally posted by WoodEye
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

You see what you want to see. Yes there are bad apples in every bunch, I thought this was a well known fact of life. It is that people (Al Jaz) take this illegal data dump of 400,000 incidents and focus right in on a few reports of bad apples. Why do so many of YOU ALL here choose to focus on this point. I look through those logs and I just see partly cryptic military reports from our boys doing a job in what we only can imagine is a hellish frightening experience. I suppose it is up to the Iraqis to decide what they focus on... my frustration is that my country seems to always be painted in a bad light when if you stop and think of it those men and women ARE trying to do good over there.

You keep missing the point...

The topic of this thread is FRAGO 242... That has nothing to do with a few bad apples... It is the formalization and order to military personnel not to intervene when torture is observed.

The issue is that those who committed these crimes, should be tried for war crimes, and those who signed, and are otherwise responsible for frago 242 should be as well.

reply to post by WoodEye


if you are led by hatred and revenge, nothing good for you - you will get what you deserved
and i will repeat: between rulers of US and Saddam are NO difference

reply to post by zerbot565


The misfortune is that those responsible within the US government for this happening will never be brought before any international tribunal or inquiry.

OK, so these 400,000 or so pages give you a little of the story.

What about the other 99.9%?

Face it, we're all screwed and have been since the first caveman punched the second.

Assange kept the CAVIER all for himself (insurance files) and give us the DOG FOOD the crap that got released didn't tell us nothing new. Assange lost all credibility with me and he is a media money whore no better then the rest of the shadow government.

A case were the chips will fall were they are.People will pan out. It's not our place to judge, even if it took a bullet to start the fall.

Amnesty Statement re Iraq Document disclosure:

"The US government must investigate how much US officials knew about the torture and other ill-treatment of detainees held by Iraqi security forces after new evidence emerged in files released today by Wikileaks.

We have not yet had an opportunity to study the leaked files in detail but they add to our concern that the US authorities committed a serious breach of international law when they summarily handed over thousands of detainees to Iraqi security forces who, they knew, were continuing to torture and abuse detainees on a truly shocking scale.

The new disclosures appear to closely match the findings of New Order, Same Abuses: Unlawful Detentions and Torture in Iraq, a report we published last month detailing the widespread torture and other ill-treatment of detainees by Iraqi forces, committed with impunity. Thousands of Iraqis who had been detained by US forces were transferred from US to Iraqi custody between early 2009 and July 2010 under an agreement between the USA and Iraq that contains no provisions for ensuring protection of the detainees’ human rights.

These documents apparently provide further evidence that the US authorities have been aware of this systematic abuse for years, yet they went ahead and handed over thousands of Iraqis they had detained to the Iraqi security forces.

The United States is a party to the UN Convention against Torture, the main international treaty prohibiting torture, which requires all states to prohibit torture and to refrain from transferring detainees to the authorities of another state at whose hands they face torture.

Amnesty International continues to campaign for full accountability for those detainees tortured and ill-treated by USA military personnel in Iraq, such as those in Abu Ghraib prison.

The US authorities, like all governments, have an obligation under international law not only to ensure that their own forces do not use torture, but also that people who were detained and are being held by US forces are not handed over to other authorities who are likely to torture them.

The USA failed to respect this obligation in Iraq, despite the great volume of evidence, available from many different quarters, showing that the Iraqi security forces use torture widely and are allowed to do so with impunity.

The information said to be in these documents also underscores the urgent need for the Iraqi government to take concrete measures to end torture, ensure the safety of all detainees, and root out and bring to justice those responsible for torture and other serious human rights abuses, however senior their position.

Join us in calling on President Obama and Congress to respect human rights and counter terror with justice."

blog.amnestyusa.org...

reply to post by wcitizen


Let us preview your paragraphs.
The US government.
We have not yet.
The new disclosures.
The documents.
The United States.
The USA failed.
Hmm what branch are you from?

I am not sure what monster mankind has become. We destroy ourselves, others, the animals we are left charge of and the planet made to nurture us. The heart of mankind is truly blackened and diseased. Something wretched has taken hold of humans.

I really do not know what else to say. The world is full of psychopaths.

Raist

Originally posted by shai hulud
This is war. It happens in every war since the beginning of time. It's an ugly brutal affair that even the Union indulges in. What I find curious is the shock everyone has about it. Even more curious is the fact it has leaked, which shows how much of an amateur the current administration is. This will do nothing but get more people killed.

Right, because the wars aren't doing enough of that already.

But I suppose since this is war we're talking about, it just happens.