WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

reply to post by Equinox99


I'm sure it has went on.
I just don't like being a party to it, or my country being in charge of it.

Because once we were over there, we toppled the government FAST and **WE** took control.
THE US was in charge when these incidents occurred, and we can't just hide our heads and not take responsibility.
I know I didn't do it. I know the Geneva convention was in effect. Thanks to Wikileaks we know our soldiers WERE reporting it. We know they were told not to intervene, and we know the reports went no where.
www.telegraph.co.uk... vealed-in-leaked-reports.html

The UN has called for an investigation. Let's see how ineffective they are too. lol

...and this is how America makes friends abroad? This will really help change the mind set in the middle east. America is ran by neo con cronies! People in the Bush administration need to be held accountable! Pelosi and Obama both took an investigation into war crimes and 9/11 off the table. What are they hiding or are they one of the same?

reply to post by hadriana


Yes I know, my point was that you do not make a moral decision at the expense of good strategy. Morals are a matter of opinion, psychology is something else.

reply to post by WoodEye

I wanted a link to the ACTUAL report of a senseless rape occurring while Americans stood by and did nothing

Daily Telegraph, Duncan Guardham and Paul Cruickshank; Abu Ghraib photos show rape:
Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

www.telegraph.co.uk...
We know that it happened Woodeye(is that a reference to a bibilcal quotation?) the President of the United States prevented, quite rightly imho, the publication of these photos in 2009.
Lets hear from Major General Taguba again:

I am not sure what purpose their release would serve other than a legal one and the consequence would be to imperil our troops, the only protectors of our foreign policy, when we most need them, and British troops who are trying to build security in Afghanistan

I agree, and I am also aware that some of the perpetraitiors have been subject to civil and criminal actions in the US.

Soshh, a fellow ATS member of some military experience, is trying to explain to you just why the brutalsation of an occupied population can sometimes be counter productive.
Fear is important, but so is trust.

Originally posted by WoodEye
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

No I know where the report was dumped. I wanted a link to the ACTUAL report of a senseless rape occurring while Americans stood by and did nothing... ohh I mean stood by and reported the event to superiors as ordered. As documented by these STOLEN secret documents. How about reports of Americans beheading innocents?

If you followed that link you would find it... Like i said, just search on rape in those files.... It is a lot of places...

reply to post by GovtFlu


I have heard others on here suggest that unless we have fought over there we have no right to comment.

That is absurd.

I'm sorry the military were sent out to an illegal war. But now that the truth has come out about the blatant lie on which this war was based, WHAT has the military done about that? WHY is it still consenting to be there? WHY are the military consenting to fight a war which is a war of aggression for corporate greed?

'We were just following orders', is just not a good enough excuse. Military have the right (and the duty) to refuse to follow orders which they believe are wrong. Why hasn't the military called for the impeachment of Bush, Cheney and co for sending the military into an illegal war and allowing their personnel to die for no good reason?

I know that hundreds, if not thousands of military personnel come back deeply traumatised from the horrors and hell which is are the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - but what I honestly don't understand is why anyone would choose that as a career in the first place. I am deeply sympathetic for all those who are suffering as a result of the horrors they have experienced. At the same time, I can't help wondering what exactly did they expect when they signed up to the military. US has a history of regularly being at war. Did you think war was going to be a picnic? Did you believe the hype that America is the good guy invading these countries and murdering their people to help them, even when they don't want US nor its help? Did you really buy into the KILL FOR PEACE absurdity?

reply to post by neo96


Yes, they have a future of conflict and civil warfare.

Great future for the Iraqis we set. Great.

Originally posted by WoodEye
reply to post by pazcat

 

You are just sayin' huh... Well let me just say.. I am SURE that special forces soldier enlisted and trained in hopes of going to some god forsaken land on a mission to rescue a kidnapped woman with the intent to kill her with a grenade. But thats just my point... he is on trial for this mistake. I hope you do not need specially trained forces to try and save your daughter someday because if this is how our troops are going to be rewarded for putting themselves in harms way I'm no sure to many are going to want to sign up.

I will be glad if people stop signing up to the military. That will stop bully US from throwing its military weight around all over the world.

America is just Israel's patsy. America has been annexed by Israel and is fighting Israel's wars on Israel's orders, doing Israel;s bullying. We need to say NO.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
reply to post by neo96

 

Yes, they have a future of conflict and civil warfare.

Great future for the Iraqis we set. Great.

This is exactly my issue with this... Outside of all of the individual experiences of suffering, dutifully condoned by the bush administration...(he should have waited till after this to write those memoirs), is the fact that we did not seem to care the least bit in helping the Iraqi people write a valiant narrative for this new democracy.... Instead what we have now as the narrative of democracy in Iraq is a democracy forged by rape and torture....

reply to post by HunkaHunka

I did but its not working ATM

Originally posted by WoodEye
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I did but its not working ATM

How odd... www....__._/search/?q=Rape seems to be working fine for me.

This is war. It happens in every war since the beginning of time. It's an ugly brutal affair that even the Union indulges in. What I find curious is the shock everyone has about it. Even more curious is the fact it has leaked, which shows how much of an amateur the current administration is. This will do nothing but get more people killed.

Nice...

This is US's version of nazi germany? Well done... germany was not so clever tho, maybe the US will have a little more luck... or not.

Originally posted by shai hulud
This is war. It happens in every war since the beginning of time. It's an ugly brutal affair that even the Union indulges in. What I find curious is the shock everyone has about it. Even more curious is the fact it has leaked, which shows how much of an amateur the current administration is. This will do nothing but get more people killed.

This informations leaking has nothing to do with the skill of this administration. It has to do with a cleared military intel personnel who had access to this information, and transmitted it to a well known hacker for safe keeping and eventual release.

If there is any failure with the leak, it is on the part of our entire security process...

And the mere fact that you miss that simple of an understanding casts a negative light on any other conclusion you have drawn.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


No doubt... Remember he town halls where all those people compared their fear of our domestic policies of giving people healthcare to 1930's Germany? I wonder where those conservatives are now raging about this similarity to nazi Germany?

I don't seem to hear any of them...

Probably out preaching hate against homosexuals i suppose.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Thanks for the link, the searchable version was never working for me. Ok I've browsed down through the first 3 pages of those 57 reports that include the word rape I have only found 1 so far where there is a claim of detainee rape. To which I say how many reports of detainee rape is there in just one prison in the world. This is just the disgusting reality of how man treats man.

reply to post by WoodEye


First off... Try this link instead, because its nothing but detainee rapes... 3 pages of it..

www....__._/search/?q=Rape+detainee

Secondly, i agree with you there.... This stuff happens.... What my issue is, if you watched the video on the front page of this thread, is how we were told to do nothing about it..... Nothing , and then that was updated with nothing but report it.... This is what FRAGO 242 is.... The order to simply observe and report on these atrocities.... THAT is my issue here....

These Iraqi policeman who are guilty should be tried for war crimes....

And those who argued for frago 242 should be as well

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
reply to post by neo96

 

Yes, they have a future of conflict and civil warfare.

Great future for the Iraqis we set. Great.

I am not pro war in any sense of the word, but wasn't this a volatile place for years?

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Mar 1951
Mar 7, 1951 - Although Shī̔ites, they held pan-Islamic opinions similar to those of the Egyptian Brotherhood, with which they had contacts. On 7 March 1951, one of their members shot and killed the Iranian prime minister, General Razmārā.The same combination of idealism and violence, of piety and terror, could be seen in the Iranian organization known as the Fidā̓īyān-i Islām (Devotees of Islam), which, significantly, borrowed a term used by the medieval emissaries of the Old Man of the Mountain. Although Shī̔ites, they held pan-Islamic opinions similar to those of the Egyptian Brotherhood, with which they had contacts. On 7 March 1951, one of their members shot and killed the Iranian prime minister ...
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reply to post by Stormdancer777


That's what is so sad about this,,,, this was our opportunity to not only overthrow their dictator, but to give them a turning point to end this...

But we simply turned a blind eye to these grisly acts

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I was not refering to the leak itself, but how it was handled. If you think for one second that Assange would be above ground under Bush or even boy Clinton shows how naive the perspective is of the man child and his clowns running this show. Secrurity breaches have occured for decades but none to this degree under this much ineptitude, but I suppose I just miss the point.