Palestinian terrorism- Not what you thought. (Wikipedia only)

reply to post by Eliad

I'm not sure it's up to them anymore, with Hamas in command, but seeing as we've already evacuated the settlements I don't see how they can be reestablished.. Maybe if Hamas had used these former settlements as grounds for new cities, instead of grounds to shoot mortars out of, their own people would be better off.

There are NO settlements on occupied land (as defined by the UN)?

All Settlements have been 'evacuated'?

Ha'aretz: Published 11:03 19.10.10

Netanyahu still wary of razing six West Bank outposts slated for demolition in 2004
High Court to deliberate state refusal to raze six West Bank outposts; Netanyahu: Demolition carries political implication.

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL

Israel Plans 500 New West Bank Homes

JERUSALEM — Israel announced plans Monday for more than 500 new housing units in the West Bank, following an apparent U.S. policy shift on Jewish settlements that has infuriated the Palestinians.
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129768,00.html" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">www.haaretz.com...[/ url]

Ha'aretz again. Sorry bud, easiest to find quickly. This one will make ya happy tho:

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL

Israel Plans 500 New West Bank Homes

JERUSALEM — Israel announced plans Monday for more than 500 new housing units in the West Bank, following an apparent U.S. policy shift on Jewish settlements that has infuriated the Palestinians.

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129768,00.html

But you of course were referring only to Gaza, as oppose to The West Bank, East Jerusalem and the golan heights. From Wiki:

Under Israeli law, West Bank settlements must meet specific criteria to be legal; Approximately 100[13] unauthorized small communities that do not meet these criteria have been built and are called illegal outposts.[54][71][72][73] some of the settlements have been constructed illegally on privately owned land.[63]

From AFP via Google news:

JERUSALEM — Israel has unveiled plans for more than 230 new homes for Jewish settlers in Arab east Jerusalem, reports said on Friday, in a move likely to complicate US attempts to revive the peace process

.
www.google.com...

Let me guess, you need the illegal outposts and enlarged settlements to house a burgeoning population?
An ATS member called Ubermensch1488, had some very similar thoughts:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Points 1 - 4 of his '25 points of American National Socialism are 'interesting'. Great minds, ay.

Am I seriously comparing Israeli politics to the aspirations of the white power movement? Nope, well, not with a straight face anyway.

From the Fox News link above:

In new violence, meanwhile, a 20-year-old Palestinian man was killed in the Rafah refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. Palestinians said the man was hit in the chest by random Israeli machine-gun fire.I

The army said it had fired at abandoned buildings used by militants to fire at Israeli soldiers but could not confirm hitting anyone. It said an investigation was continuing

The news about delaying further construction of the barrier/ wall was interesting, ay.

Peace.

reply to post by Eliad

Again, this isn't about who massacred who first, as I said, this is about showing that there has always been Palestinian violence.. And, of course, there has always been Israeli violence..

Two pages into the debate. Why not mention it in your OP, instead of:

Notice how important facts about this conflict are left out by both sides' propaganda, and how this short collective memory is affecting our opinions?

I can find three references to zionist/ Israeli actions in your OP:

How is it that even now outside intervention of both right wing and left wing organizations, both Palestinian and Israeli, are burning up the streets of Sheik Jarakh (A neighborhood in east Jerusalem with both Palestinians and Jews), when the both the Jewish and Palestinian community leaders are actually calling for everyone to just leave them alone to co-exist, as they always have?

and

How is it that today we ignore the fact that the Fatah preformed worst atrocities in Jordan, that were preformed on its people by Israel?

not forgetting

The truth is that the Palestinians (or more accurately, the radical elements within them) have been massacering Israelis and Jews ever since they arrived to Israel/Palestine.

Again, this one thread can't be about everything- It was supposed to be about debunking the "No Palestinian violence prior to 87' " myth.. Couldn't have people going around spreading lies, so I created this thread for reference, for when the next idiot goes around claiming the Palestinians were peaceful protesters the whole time and just snapped in 87' due to Israeli evil..

Has anyone who has replied on this thread claimed that there was no Palestinian violence before 1987? What made the Palestinians snap ? Do you think having thier country colonized by europeans who refused to integrate with the native population might have had just a little to do with it?

The Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development or Hope Simpson Report of October 1930 was an investigation into governance of the British Mandate of Palestine, which had been recommended by the Shaw Report, following the widespread 1929 Palestine riots.

It concluded that Arab fears of the destructive impact of Zionist colonization were well-founded, and thus called for controls:It concluded that Arab fears of the destructive impact of Zionist colonization were well-founded, and thus called for controls:

(p. 135

"It is impossible to view with equanimity the extension of an enclave in Palestine from which the Arabs are excluded. The Arab population already regards the transfer of lands to Zionist hands with dismay and alarm. These cannot be dismissed as baseless in light of the Zionist policy described above."

Hope-Simpson pointed out that, due to the Zionist labour policy extending to all Jewish enterprises, the displaced Arab farmer could not find non-agricultural employment, making the problem of unemployment among the Arabs "serious and widespread":

"There can be no doubt that there is at present time serious unemployment among Arab craftsmen and among Arab laborers."

"Arab unemployment is serious and general."

The Zionist contention that the Arab worker benefited from Jewish immigration was therefore refuted by the report:

(p.133

"The policy of the Jewish Labour Federation is successful in impeding the employment of Arabs in Jewish colonies and in Jewish enterprises of every kind. There is therefore no relief to be anticipated from an extension of Jewish enterprise unless some departure from existing practice is effected."

en.wikipedia.org...
D'oh!, I think I got the name wrong earlier it is actualy the Hope Simpson report. Sorry.

reply to post by joewalker

Let me guess, you need the illegal outposts and enlarged settlements to house a burgeoning population?

Come on, you already know my stance on the issue- The settlements need to go!
And of course I was referring to the settlements in Gaza! What else? At the moment Hamas is the only one still fighting.. Are they now fighting for the people of the West Bank? Who are, in turn, busy trying to reach a diplomatic agreement with us?
Instead of doing the same and renouncing terror?

The minute they start working things out with Israel things are going to dramatically improve for them- It happened in the West Bank, why not with them? Settlements aside, the West Bank is doing much better than Gaza, in part because of Israeli financial aid, and other forms of aid, that are helping them turn the West Bank into a modern, moderate country.

Points 1 - 4 of his '25 points of American National Socialism are 'interesting'. Great minds, ay.

Riiiight... So the black hebrews, the Ethiopian Jews, the Druze, the African Jews, the Arab Jews, all of which accepted as part of the Israeli culture, country and people- They don't count, right?
Or is this about being Jewish? Because the Druze, the Christians, the Baha'is, and the Muslims who live in our country will argue differently.
Granted, Israeli Arabs are still not accepted fully into Israeli society, but that's not due to some kind of crazy white power mentality, it's because there's animosity between Arabs and Jews.. Takes time to change that.

What's more you keep disregarding, avoiding and averting all of my arguments, while I at least make an honest attempt to directly reply to all of yours. Now, why don't you try replying directly to the argument you quoted:

I'm not sure it's up to them anymore, with Hamas in command, but seeing as we've already evacuated the settlements I don't see how they can be reestablished.. Maybe if Hamas had used these former settlements as grounds for new cities, instead of grounds to shoot mortars out of, their own people would be better off.

- Is it up to the Palestinian people, would it be possible, in your opinion, should they choose so, for them to re-elect the PA to govern over Gaza, had they wanted to? Do they have the power to democratically get rid of Hamas? What do you think?
- Do you, realistically, think that the settlements in Gaza would be re-established the minute Hamas disarms? Is it even possible to do so, both physically and politically, what would be the consequences of such actions?
- Why hasn't Hamas used these abandoned settlements to spread their people out, taking them out of the densely populated cities and refugee camps? Instead of using these territories to increase its mortar and rocket reach?
- Is Hamas's refusal to disarm or renounce terror the cause of misery in Gaza, or are the Israeli settlements in the West Bank directly effecting the people of Gaza and are the cause of their misery? (mind you that the blockade, the fence, and the border lock down are a direct effect of Hamas's terror)


Stop dodging. Stop using my arguments as a jumping board to completely different topics- You quoted my opinions on Hamas in Gaza, and whether or not the people still have the power to change the situation, and you turned it into a discussion on white power and settlements in the West Bank and Golan, as if they have, or should logically have any direct influence on the situation in Gaza.

Peace.

Going to sleep now, will reply to your second post in the morning.

P.S-

me fail english? thats unpossible.

That's the other Simpson report..

reply to post by joewalker

Two pages into the debate. Why not mention it in your OP, instead of:

Why did I need to? Where have I ever said that there hasn't been any Israeli violence? Isn't it obvious that there always has been? Maybe not on this scale, but there has been examples from time to time.. But why does it have to be a contest of who massacred first/more? Are we that childish?
If I had wanted to show "the evil Palestinian people" I would have just put a list of all the massacres they did, and it's a long list, against a list of Israeli similar actions, which would consist of a handful of incidents, most of which by rogue elements in Israeli society or the army, but such a thread would not only be fruitless and pointless, contributing more to the hatred and the polarity here in these forums between pro and anti Israelis, it would be selectively choosing one type of violence to show Israel in a good light.

The main reason I don't mention Israel in this thread is exactly that- This is not a comparison between Israel and Palestine, this is just putting out an argument and proving it. The fact that it is not about who's right and who's wrong, about which one is worse, and there aren't any comparisons, which there shouldn't be, was meant to steer the debate away from the usual "ISRAL/PELESTIN IS TEH EVIlEST!!!11", and focus on the dry facts.

And again, look at the OP- It does not glorify Israel, it does not vilify the Palestinians, it simply shows the involvement of politics in the forming of the PLO and Fadayin.. That's not to say that the Palestinian people were living happily, having been cut out of their own country, by the same nations who were then encouraging them to fight.

Again- Say what you will, but this thread does not attempt to vilify the Palestinian people.. Show them as a political pawn, maybe, but then again I've also mentioned it in the context of Israel being an American pawn..
So why must it always be a competition?

Has anyone who has replied on this thread claimed that there was no Palestinian violence before 1987?

Not on this thread, obviously, these people are comfortable being ignorant, and anything that negates that is immediately ignored.

What made the Palestinians snap ? Do you think having thier country colonized by europeans who refused to integrate with the native population might have had just a little to do with it?

Oh, it might have had something to do with it... Could it have had anything to do with the Arab nations cutting them out of their own nation in the 1949 armistice? Or maybe the unfulfilled Arab promise telling them to leave their homes now, and not agree to live with the Jews, as they would destroy the Jews sooner or later?
Could it be that they suddenly realize that they're alone in the fight once Egypt abandons them in 1979 for peace with Israel, and then later on Jordan in 94'?
Could it be that in the 20's suddenly they understand that they're not a part of Syria, and then in 46' realize they're not even a part of Jordan?

Do you really think it's all black and white? Do you really feel that there's one, and only one reason?

D'oh!, I think I got the name wrong earlier it is actualy the Hope Simpson report. Sorry.

It's sad to see that the Jews were sold lands by land owner who could not care less for their former employees.. It's sad to see the the Jews didn't care either.. Sadly this is how the world worked back then.. No one really cared.. The only reason the Brits cared is because it caused them trouble.

reply to post by Eliad


Hi Eliad. I was cutting the replies simply to make it easier to follow and avoid pages of repeat questions/ answers/ statements. I shall cease and desist immediately if not sooner.

Come on, you already know my stance on the issue- The settlements need to go! Come on, you already know my stance on the issue- The settlements need to go!
And of course I was referring to the settlements in Gaza! What else? At the moment Hamas is the only one still fighting.. Are they now fighting for the people of the West Bank? Who are, in turn, busy trying to reach a diplomatic agreement with us?
Instead of doing the same and renouncing terror?

And you already know my stance; Hamas and the other resistance should renounce terrorism, cease attacks on Israeli civilians and seek a political solution.

The minute they start working things out with Israel things are going to dramatically improve for them- It happened in the West Bank, why not with them? Settlements aside, the West Bank is doing much better than Gaza, in part because of Israeli financial aid, and other forms of aid, that are helping them turn the West Bank into a modern, moderate country.

But will Israeli politicians keep their nose out of Palestinian areas? Hows that worked in the West Bank?

Riiiight... So the black hebrews, the Ethiopian Jews, the Druze, the African Jews, the Arab Jews, all of which accepted as part of the Israeli culture, country and people- They don't count, right?

They would to me, but then I don’t live in Israel. Do you really want to delve into societal problems in Israel? We can highlight that strange mix of race, religion and politics. The ashkanazi hate the haredi and they both hate the Ethiopians. Do Israeli hospitals still throw donated Ethiopian blood away?

And everybody hates the settlers; Other than the state who of course, fund and protect them and will even sabotage International law and the prospect of peace for them.

Speaking of Israel and religion, hows rabbi Ovieda yosef doing? Is he still proclaiming that Jews who go to the secular courts wont make it to the next world and that its the duty of Jews to kill non Jews.

Or is this about being Jewish? Because the Druze, the Christians, the Baha'is, and the Muslims who live in our country will argue differently.

It was actually about point 3 of the white supremacists manifesto and the similarity (in general) to the first four points of the national socialist constitution and Extreme Zionism. But then, both ideologies did originate in the same area at the same time, bound to be some cross over.

But feel free to turn this into a debate about religious freedom in Israel if ya want.
Hows the work of the counter missionary groups going?

- Is it up to the Palestinian people, would it be possible, in your opinion, should they choose so, for them to re-elect the PA to govern over Gaza, had they wanted to? Do they have the power to democratically get rid of Hamas? What do you think?

At this moment in time, prob not without a battle, no. It wasnt always that way however. Although hamas have offered to recognise Israel under certain conditions.

- Do you, realistically, think that the settlements in Gaza would be re-established the minute Hamas disarms? Is it even possible to do so, both physically and politically, what would be the consequences of such actions?

No. From the Gazan perspective however, why should they believe Israeli promises considering Israels continued presence and political influence in the West Bank.

- Is Hamas's refusal to disarm or renounce terror the cause of misery in Gaza, or are the Israeli settlements in the West Bank directly effecting the people of Gaza and are the cause of their misery? (mind you that the blockade, the fence, and the border lock down are a direct effect of Hamas's terror)

The security barrier/ fence is illegal. From my pov however, its hard to argue against it as it fulfilled its criteria of stopping terrorist attacks against civilians. My only real problem is that it smashed through and divided Palestinian homes and land but deviated around Israeli holdings.

The levelling of Gazan homes to create the security strip is a whole different thing though.

The Israeli blockade of Gaza is creating more problems than it solves and is giving a free win to the extremists. Hamas were elected only after the peace process (lol) failed yet again to produce a workable resolution. To quote Moshe Dayan:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.

Are you really holding up Israels activities in the West Bank as an example of her integrity? Thats almost as funny as the Simpson joke.

Stop dodging. Stop using my arguments as a jumping board to completely different topics- You quoted my opinions on Hamas in Gaza, and whether or not the people still have the power to change the situation, and you turned it into a discussion on white power and settlements in the West Bank and Golan, as if they have, or should logically have any direct influence on the situation in Gaza.

More of a throwaway line really, but if it makes you happy I shall never mention white power again. Ultra nationalism on the other hand...
As to dodging the question, well, I learnt a few tricks from you my friend.

Shall we get back on topic? Aka, your dubious attempt to research only one side of the argument.

That's the other Simpson report..

Thanks for the laugh bud

reply to post by Eliad

Why did I need to? Where have I ever said that there hasn't been any Israeli violence? Isn't it obvious that there always has been? Maybe not on this scale, but there has been examples from time to time.. But why does it have to be a contest of who massacred first/more? Are we that childish?

Its a case of language and inference. The Wiki page on the Israeli policy of reprisal is interesting. Especially if you click edit history and compare the various revisions. Note the changes from neutral language to something else.

If I had wanted to show "the evil Palestinian people" I would have just put a list of all the massacres they did, and it's a long list

That is kinda what you did. The headline links from your OP are:

List of attacks on Israelis by Palestinians prior to 1967 (when the Palestinians were still under Jordanian and Egyptian rule)

The Fadayin- The first Palestinian terrorists (Notice the political involvment of Egyptian radical leaders in their establishment, rather then them being born out of the suffering of the people themselves)

The PLO- est. 1964, and has been involved in terror ever since, not just against Israel (again, notice the amounts of anti Jewish/anti Israeli Arab politics and politicians involved in this conflict, much prior to 1987).

All of the Palestinian political violence from the begining of the 1900's to this day

You then provide vague references to Israeli/ zionist actions being no where as bad as those nasty Palestinians and most def not in any way, shape or form political.

but you didnt provide any context or history because:

but such a thread would not only be fruitless and pointless, contributing more to the hatred and the polarity here in these forums between pro and anti Israelis, it would be selectively choosing one type of violence to show Israel in a good light

The main reason I don't mention Israel in this thread is exactly that- This is not a comparison between Israel and Palestine, this is just putting out an argument and proving it. The fact that it is not about who's right and who's wrong, about which one is worse, and there aren't any comparisons, which there shouldn't be, was meant to steer the debate away from the usual "ISRAL/PELESTIN IS TEH EVIlEST!!!11", and focus on the dry facts.

As long as those 'dry facts' only confirm your bias,er, I mean conclusions.

And again, look at the OP- It does not glorify Israel, it does not vilify the Palestinians, it simply shows the involvement of politics in the forming of the PLO and Fadayin..

But again, no consideration of the politics/ ideology which drove zionism. So only one side of the story of the radicalising of the Arab (Christian, Moslem etc) population of Palestine is told..Oh wait theres more:

That's not to say that the Palestinian people were living happily, having been cut out of their own country, by the same nations who were then encouraging them to fight

So its the fault of other Countries, but still no mention of zionist colonaization( Jabotinsky's words).

Again- Say what you will, but this thread does not attempt to vilify the Palestinian people.. Show them as a political pawn, maybe, but then again I've also mentioned it in the context of Israel being an American pawn..

So you are now blaming the Americans for Israels actions? But most def not political zionist thought.

Not on this thread, obviously, these people are comfortable being ignorant, and anything that negates that is immediately ignored.

Too easy.

Oh, it might have had something to do with it... Could it have had anything to do with the Arab nations cutting them out of their own nation in the 1949 armistice? Or maybe the unfulfilled Arab promise telling them to leave their homes now, and not agree to live with the Jews, as they would destroy the Jews sooner or later?
Could it be that they suddenly realize that they're alone in the fight once Egypt abandons them in 1979 for peace with Israel, and then later on Jordan in 94'?

So apart from suggesting the Palestinian people have been consistantly shafted in post war history, what does that prove? How does it explain the rise in Palestinian violence Pre 1948?

Could it be that in the 20's suddenly they understand that they're not a part of Syria, and then in 46' realize they're not even a part of Jordan?

Now you are getting closer. The league of nations deal between Feisal and Weizmann would have been a better starting point, as would the fall of the Ottoman empire, as would an explanation of modern (Hertzl etc)zionist thought.
You really should research your own history. You may even find some quotes which back up your narrative.

Do you really think it's all black and white? Do you really feel that there's one, and only one reason?

No.

It's sad to see that the Jews were sold lands by land owner who could not care less for their former employees.. It's sad to see the the Jews didn't care either.. Sadly this is how the world worked back then.. No one really cared.. The only reason the Brits cared is because it caused them trouble.

Hope Simpson, wrongly summed up in five sentences and some ellipses.

But the problem is that most anti Israeli posters in this forum don't have the knowledge or mental tools to deal with this debate.. They can only deal with strictly anti Israeli threads, in accordance with their rhetoric..

Unlike the pro Israeli posters.

reply to post by joewalker

But will Israeli politicians keep their nose out of Palestinian areas? Hows that worked in the West Bank?

I don't know how it's worked out in the West Bank, to be quite honest.. Question is what would Israeli politicians want with Gaza or the West Bank? And vice versa... I'm sure there'll eventually be something.. But that'll be a good sign, won't it? I mean, if politicians from both sides start to meddle in each other's business we'll start putting down the walls between our two peoples.. Metaphorically and physically..

The ashkanazi hate the haredi and they both hate the Ethiopians.

lol there's the ashkenazi and sefaradi, there's the russian jews, there's the etheopians.. And the secular people hate the haredim, and it's all really massed up... But it's not as bad as, let's say, what the white people did, and are still doing, to the black people in America, for example. And the differences are fading.. Two generations ago people still had accents of their old countries, still spoke the languages of their old country.. Now a days everyone is Israeli, for better or for worse. Even the Israeli Arabs are slowly getting more and more accepted by Israeli society (has a direct correlation with the drop in terror attacks, if you ask me..).

And everybody hates the settlers; Other than the state

True... They thought they could get away with it, but they neither took care of the Palestinian people as if they were Israeli, nor did they allow them to govern themselves instead. Epic fail. Now they realize we need to pull out..

Speaking of Israel and religion, hows rabbi Ovieda yosef doing? Is he still proclaiming that Jews who go to the secular courts wont make it to the next world and that its the duty of Jews to kill non Jews.

He's still a demented old 90 year old...
But he's never said that it's the duty of Jews to kill non Jews, he said that the non Jews live to serve the Jews or some other dumb #..

But then, both ideologies did originate in the same area at the same time, bound to be some cross over.

lol so was the Marxist ideology Originating at the same time doesn't make them similar.. I just don't see how Zionism is even remotely similar to white supremacy.. If there hadn't been a problem with the Palestinians, do you still think there would have been hatred?

But feel free to turn this into a debate about religious freedom in Israel if ya want.

*shrug* As long as we're having fun..

Hows the work of the counter missionary groups going?

What's that?

No. From the Gazan perspective however, why should they believe Israeli promises considering Israels continued presence and political influence in the West Bank.

Pinky promise?
Yeah, but nobody asks them to give away their weapons or anything.. Just.. Cut it out with the whole death to Israel thing... Make us trust you..

My only real problem is that it smashed through and divided Palestinian homes and land but deviated around Israeli holdings.

You're thinking West Bank, not Gaza..

The levelling of Gazan homes to create the security strip is a whole different thing though.

Now you're thinking Gaza..

The Israeli blockade of Gaza is creating more problems than it solves and is giving a free win to the extremists.

No doubt...
This whole embargo thing.. I just don't get it.. No toys? No candy? Who do you think you're punishing? Hamas doesn't care, they can get whatever they want, whether you let them or not..
I mean, what kind of short sightedness led to the conclusion that devoiding the people of Gaza of their candy is going to make them hate Hamas and love Israel? What kind of morons run this joint?

Are you really holding up Israels activities in the West Bank as an example of her integrity?

Why would I do that?

As to dodging the question, well, I learnt a few tricks from you my friend.

When have I ever done that?

Its a case of language and inference.

It just wasn't relevant.. Adding Israeli massacres or attacks would not have changed anything as this is not about who's more evil, it's about the politics behind Palestinian terror, and how old this conflict really is..
If someone had made a thread on the amount of money Israel is getting from the U.S, should he also add in the amount of money the PA gets? Why? How is that relevant?

Note the changes from neutral language to something else.

Wow, an interesting feature.. Yeah, I'm guessing it goes back and forth all the time..

That is kinda what you did

lol it seems I did.. Wow, that OP was, like, 20 years ago in forum years..
What I meant was I could've made a big giant list of each individual massacre with the link and number of dead and wounded, etc etc.. Instead I just chose the first four, for people who are too lazy to look at the lists, just to show that it did exist prior to the first Intifada...

You then provide vague references to Israeli/ zionist actions being no where as bad as those nasty Palestinians and most def not in any way, shape or form political.

Did I? In what way?

but you didnt provide any context or history because:

I did provide history.. This *is* history.. As for context- Had my point been "The Palestinians are evil terrorists, see how evil they are? They like to slaughter Jews" then, yes, this whole thing would have been out of context, but seeing as how I only wanted to show that these things happened, period, I didn't really think any context was needed.. Same goes for the politics thing.. I mean, what kind of context could I have added? "There was a war"? "The Arab nations lost"? "They don't like us"? These are facts everyone knows.. Pretty trivial if you ask me.

This was never meant to be a comparison of who's more evil, it's just a discussion on a certain aspect of Palestinian terror, and how politics fit in the middle east...
But the thread sort of evolved funny, it started out as trying to disprove the myth or no Palestinian violence, and then got added the politics thing, and it ended up neither here nor there.

As long as those 'dry facts' only confirm your bias,er, I mean conclusions.

Are the conclusions really biased?
Which ones?

But again, no consideration of the politics/ ideology which drove zionism. So only one side of the story of the radicalising of the Arab (Christian, Moslem etc) population of Palestine is told..Oh wait theres more:

Pretty trivial, don't you think? I mean is there anyone who doesn't think that Palestinian radicalization was caused by Jews settling in their country?
Again, this *is* the other side, this is the side no one knows..

So its the fault of other Countries, but still no mention of zionist colonaization( Jabotinsky's words).

Jewish colonization is one thing.. Declaring war on a day old nation is another thing, and not forcing the Jews back to the U.N division at the end of the war is just frustrating! I just don't get it.. Why didn't the world say to the Jews "Fine, you won the war, now go back to the U.N division borders, or there's no armistice...
A day old country, against the world... It would have withdrawn..

So you are now blaming the Americans for Israels actions? But most def not political zionist thought.

Was I? Read again.

So apart from suggesting the Palestinian people have been consistantly shafted in post war history, what does that prove? How does it explain the rise in Palestinian violence Pre 1948?

These are all contributing factors to why they snapped in 87'... The question was why did they snap...

You really should research your own history.

I am... Hardly knew a think before I landed in these forums a few months ago.. Didn't care about politics either.. Just figured they're all assholes.. Hell, I didn't even vote.. And I found out a lot of things I didn't like about my country, and I found out a lot of misconceptions and disinformation too.
And I've been learning more and more ever since.

You may even find some quotes which back up your narrative.

Don't presume to know my narrative..

Hope Simpson, wrongly summed up in five sentences and some ellipses.

Uh huh.. Go ahead, let's see how you sum it up in 5 lines..

Unlike the pro Israeli posters.

Exactly.


WOW, this is long..

reply to post by Eliad


S&F and very accurate. These things did of course happen and should be condemned and NOT forgotten. But of course there ARE two sides to every story. The Zionists terrorist activities were in fact much worse. Urgun, The Huganuh and the cowardly Stern Gang literally terrorized the entire non Jewish population of the West Bank decimating 356 Palestinian villages, killing thousands and causing hundreds of thousands to flee for fear of their lives. The leaders of these terrorist organizations rose to positions of power even becoming Prime Ministers of Israel. THIS also should be condemned and NOT forgotten. Those were dark days in history