Republican congressional candidate says violent overthrow of government is 'on the table'

he's a texas pasture alright- with yards of bull#.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Dammit, if we can't win in a fair election, then we must murder those whom oppose us.

its the American way.


The scary thing is that he is probably not a lone voice of crazy...hell, there are plenty here on ATS that would think the same.

Sorry, but if your going to try and overthrow a elected government by the people, that makes you an enemy of the state and about as american as genghis khan

This all depends on your 'givens'. Or at least what you believe to be true. You take it as a given that the election process is still 'fair'. I'm one of those who is of the opinion that it is not, and that it hasn't been for some time. So our givens in interpreting reality are different. Because of my perspective I'm one of those people who feels that a conflict or 'revolution' may very well be the only way at this point to pull this outta the ditch. On that note (and for other reasons I won't bore you with) I find 'enemy of the state' an absolutist and propaganda-ish statement. It makes you sound brainwashed frankly. Stop spouting partisan driven propaganda and start thinking. (Now, before you write me off because I hurt your feelings, please read the rest.)

However...

For all of you ready to let loose the dogs of war there...

I would like to use this opportunity to say that revolutions are chancy things. It is a uh... malleable time. Humans are reactionary under stress and these things tend toward behavorial feed back loops on a mass scale. Fun, fun.

You may very well start out a revolution with two opposing forces and points of view. Fine. Nice, and clear. Unfortunately, usually relatively quickly into the the chaos the other points of view with their own splinter agenda's start crawling out of the woodwork to take advantage of the opportunity for change.

So, then you have a dozen plus different ideologies conflicting, and you'd be surprised how many of those can pack a punch on the populace to get what they want when infrastructure breaks down. You may have consolidation of different factions at some point (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), which may or may not break down later, or morph into a different ideology entirely.

Not to mention, there are plenty of other countries that would just love to come in and take advantage of such chaos and gain power/resources or simply kick the colossus while we're down. My point with the rambling here is that no matter what you think when you start down that 'Revolution' or even War Road, you don't know what you'll end up with. It's absolutely unpredictable.

Also, most populace driven uprisings against The Establishment fail... Horribly... And the United States Military is the greatest military force to ever stride the earth. Just a thought.

On another note... What he is speaking of sounds like partisan against partisan. In short, part of the establishment against part of the establishment; which would probably be more akin to a civil war along strictly ideological (rather than even remotely geographic) lines. So, really messy, and unpredictable, but might have at least a snowball's chance in He** of some sort of success. Even if they won it's still hard to say what we would end up with though. Worst case scenario... The thought of having a bunch of Patriarchal Fundamentalist running the country scares me juiceless actually. Welcome the Christian version of Sharia law; and if they do start shooting that is a possibility when the smoke clears and the bodies are buried, make no mistake.

For all of you saber rattlers... War sucks, and I'm not just talking about for soldiers. Read up on it, and look at the pictures. Revolutions usually fail, and with dire consequences for that failure; and you still can't guarantee what you'll be living with when you 'win'. In the end, you may find that you lost limbs or your family fighting for something that not only you don't believe in, but is actually worse than what you had. If you wanna fight at least make an informed decision. Think really hard.

reply to post by hadriana


Elected by the people... hahaahaha. With electronic voting machines owned by the parties in power with no paper trail.

Give me a break, ``elected by the people``.


Now of course this retard probably says that because it's democrats in power.

Fact is both parties are responsible for all the bad things done by congress and in the presidency. They should all be arrested, tried, and if found guilty, shot.

After all, the declaration of independence says this :

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
Now if you've read the news in the last...TWO DECADES or so... You know for a fact this is no longer true.

Now what happens then? Let's continue...

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

It even says that people should not overthrow the government if it's just a few treasonous actions... but when it goes on and on and on and on, like it's been happening FOR AT LEAST TWO DECADES, something needs to be done.

Or maybe you think the founders of the US were crazy nuts and that America should have licked the boots of the British King forever.

Originally posted by illuminotreal
What makes this cat think a revolution would automatically favor his party and beliefs? H

The delusion of all politicians, especially one believing he does Gods work .. they firmly believe they can do no wrong. I expect he thinks we'd crown him King or Emperor.

Originally posted by illuminotreal
What makes this cat think a revolution would automatically favor his party and beliefs? H

Answer is one or more questions:

What would liberals fight a revolution with?

And don't liberals count on government to solve all their problems? So, libs have a genuine catch-22 situation when they need government to solve their problem - which IS the government.

That statement alone should start most thinking liberals on the path to changing their political philosophies.

I think for me, the big point is when the hell have we ever heard a congessional candidate even ellude to the possibility of REVOLUTION? I think that deep down, it's on the table for millions, hidden in the subconscious. They know deep down that this system is unsustainable and evil and it's got to stop. Peacefully, no more violence please.

Originally posted by centurion1211


And don't liberals count on government to solve all their problems? So, libs have a genuine catch-22 situation when they need government to solve their problem - which IS the government.

Funny.

That is EXACTLY what the Republicans are offering TO 'fix government' with government.

Originally posted by jtma508
reply to post by illuminotreal

 

That's the thing. He's not saying 'the Constitution has been subverted we need a violent overthrow of the government'. He's saying 'if the election doesn't gpo the way I want it to then...". Scrap them all. Time to roll-out the guillotines.

Agreed. Let's give all candidates a comprehensive psychological/intelligence exam. Only a brilliant, sane person should be allowed to run for the highest office in the land!

Perhaps lt's not as outrageous as it sounds... After all,they did it to JFK and Bobby and Martin Luther King... and one lunatic in particular, threatened to take out Obama, in his infancy as president! America seems to have a penchant for killing/assassinating those it does not like! The Republicans killed everything that was beautiful/progressive and forward thinking... They killed the dream!

reply to post by SaturnFX

They will do as ordered...to defend the republic from domestic enemies whom would try to overthrow the will of the majority

a poor understanding of the constitution and the amendments is no excuse for attacking elected representitives.

And here we have the root of the problem. This country is not based on the rule of the majority, it was never meant to be. Democracy is mob rule...we are a democracy not a Democracy...ya know? I realize his comment is hyped up crap, but if a pattern of deviation from liberty is seen (as has been for the last...ohh 100 YEARS) then a violent overthrow is the duty of the people (yeah, the same retards that voted the clowns in, I know).

reply to post by centurion1211

Nobody should ever apologize or cave in for supporting liberal or left wing beliefs! These ideas, wether you like it or not, are the voice of reason! You can stick Nixon/Thatcher/Reagan etc where the sun don't shine!

Originally posted by Culdeeson
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Nobody should ever apologize or cave in for supporting liberal or left wing beliefs! These ideas, wether you like it or not, are the voice of reason! You can stick Nixon/Thatcher/Reagan etc where the sun don't shine!

And if it were not for Reagan and Thatcher, the place where the sun would not shine would be in the basement of Lubyanka, and our alphabet would be Cyrillic. I think the guy is just angry with whats going on in this country when it comes to Politics. Granted its a bit over the top, but his sentiment is echoed by many others in the US who want change, and not just lip service..

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by illuminotreal
What makes this cat think a revolution would automatically favor his party and beliefs? H

Answer is one or more questions:

What would liberals fight a revolution with?

And don't liberals count on government to solve all their problems? So, libs have a genuine catch-22 situation when they need government to solve their problem - which IS the government.

Liberals participate in a revolution every 2 to 4 years.
we tend to call it voting however..more offical

That statement alone should start most thinking liberals on the path to changing their political philosophies.

I think "thinking" may not be the best word. If a liberal has suddenly gone violently retarded, then ya, philosophies may indeed change to a more neo-con kill government when you disagree mentality.

reply to post by SaturnFX


No that's not right at all.

If you actually thought about the history of this nation and or read the documents written by it's founders, you would understand what this is about.

He's referring to the continued abuses against the constitution with no apparent redress and that as a last resort when people's rights are being infringed upon with no potential redress, a violent response may be necessary, atleast that's what I hope he is referring to.

Try reading the declaration of independence. There were many people who were apathetic to the crown's abuses upon the people of the colonies who didn't want to mess with the status quo. "From time to time the tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots".

Study history or you are doomed to repeat it, The last few generations have repeated it and that MAY make it necessary for us to repeat it in a different way as well.

Apathy is the first step to loss of liberty and the excuse for impotence...

Jaden

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


Exactly, I hate the term democracy being thrown around....we are not and have never been meant to be a democracy....

We were supposed to be a democratic Republic, we are a republic....

Since the new deal however, we have been a socialist republic and are becoming more socialistic at the cost of individual liberty (what this nation was founded on and what the COTUS guarantees) every day.

Jaden

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

The ability to overthrow the Government, as goofy as it sounds, is in fact allowed. It's based on our Government ignoring the citizens and failing to represent their interest.

Actually, what is allowed is for the people to defend the government from enemies, both foreign and domestic...and to rise up against entities that would try to destroy the republic. AKA, if we were invaded and some dictator tried to rule.
it was not meant for duely elected representitives of the republic to be slaughtered because someone disagreed with their point of view, no matter how much you twist its meaning.

Good question on what the military might do being they take an oath to protect and defend the constitution.

They will do as ordered...to defend the republic from domestic enemies whom would try to overthrow the will of the majority

a poor understanding of the constitution and the amendments is no excuse for attacking elected representitives.

What you've stated here is a bastardization of the truth... It's not foreign and domestic enemies of the republic they are sworn to defend against, it is foreign and domestic enemies of the constitution and individual liberty.

If those voted in do NOT start to restore the liberties that have been stolen from us, Eminent domain being one law that is an infringement on those liberties and the TSA being an example of another one, then it is the citizens DUTY to overthrow that governement and institute the constitutional principles of individual liberty that they are sworn to protect against those enemies who are not fullfilling their sworn obligations.

Jaden