This experiment is more important than anything happening at the LHC

pretty interesting theory. im not opposed at all to this being the truth. it really only changes the way we talk about reality, not the way we live in it. its just semantics really.

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
What a bunch of crap science...put your hand on your keyboard...then slide it down to your desk...feel the drop? that's 3 dimensions my friends.

LOL, man, you should be a scientist and publish a paper on that, you would be rich man!!

come on, this world could be virtual, in the sense of being processed in a computer, so, if the computer tells you that what you are seeing is 3D, thats what you are seeing, if they tell you that what you are touching is really there, than you will feel it ...

the reality is that we really cant prove our universe exists or is just some virtual product ... study a little more in the area before just throwing comments

reply to post by nightbringr

yea, i will. the zohar was written during jewish persecuton by the romans. when was this? about, 400 A.D. so sorry, more than a thousand years...The superstring was first mention in the zohar, for jewish mystics...

Could it be that nothing exists until its observed? That could very well be true IMO. Really , when you come down to it everything we experience , we experience in our minds.www.friesian.com...

I read an article the other day that stated that we (Humans) were actually beings from a different dimension and that we created this Universe to experience life in the 3rd dimension.

Thought it was all bunk but this makes me think again.

Its that same old Matrix question!

Peace.
ALS

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Makes one wonder, what happens to the wave particle duality?
Anyway lets wait and see the results from fermilab.
Though most of the known physics will be revamped , sooner or later

Originally posted by Gazrok

What a bunch of crap science...put your hand on your keyboard...then slide it down to your desk...feel the drop? that's 3 dimensions my friends.

It's kind of like saying your hand or the keyboard is solid though. It's all relative. However, both your hand and the keyboard are mostly empty space (i.e. all the space between the atoms and molecules etc. that make up both.)

Just that the relative densities give the appearance of solidity.

it appears it's all about definitions. what we experience and live by, is created and used according to our 5 senses. to interact with each other, we have designated "rules".
example: the speed of light is measured against a set of pre-determined human-made rules.
light can be slower or faster depending on the amount of massive gravitational interactions...simple example: no light eminating from the center of a black hole...question... has the light sped up or slowed down beyond human detection?

Science is getting too complicated for me to wrap my head around it. I already had a tough time understanding the bending of space and time, black holes, quantum mechanics, bending light around objects, the string theory, and now this comes along.

If it's true that our 3d world is just a projection of a 2d world, quantum entanglement actually makes sense.
Thanks for this OP.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Interesting notion that we maybe a hologram. And I thought the article and ATS thread I read a few days ago made my mind explode:

CERN scientists eye possible parallel universe breakthrough

ATS CERN thread

I'm just grateful that I don't lose my atoms as I go jogging and come back home in one piece and or just as dense.

reply to post by midnightbrigade

What a bunch of crap science...put your hand on your keyboard...then slide it down to your desk...feel the drop? that's 3 dimensions my friends.

Actually, no. That would be your own personal perception of pain and an event occurrence. If someone else was there to see the keyboard drop, that would be a shared experience do to proximity of sharing the same visual field with you, but they wouldn't feel the expressed pain from said event.

So that comment proves absolutely nothing.

I hate to be like this, but when I read the post, my first thought was " What is the practical application?"
If the theory does prove out, what can we do with it?
Will knowing something is not as we thought it was allow us to alter or change anything in day to day life?

Since 1972 I have always viewed the universe as a holographic system, it being in a simple sense the interference pattern created by bosons although in an extremely complex and specific manner. I guess that's one of the reasons I don't believe free will exists, it's also illusory, but unfortunately both space-time and free will are based it seems on subjective perception. I doubt 'ole Craig will get highly definitive results either way as a clock and counter is not enough. In order to determine the "solidness" of this reality, it would seem that one clock and two counters are required. One counter ported to operate through our medium, that thing will call reality, and a second counter operating through an entangled string medium, eg. a BEC, EPR/ER gateway, some Plank Length portal, particle based "spooky interaction at a distance"-Bell's Theorem, etc. If he does that, then he should find differences in local subjective time and absolute temporal frames of reference. This would also allow him to measure gravity waves as he would create a temporal interferometer that could measure the 3D+time undulation events to our local space-time caused by gravity wave movements. More importantly however, the measurement of absolute temporal frames of reference and the time-delta to our "reality" would indicate that we exist within a closed system, with boundaries and might discount a number of Einstein's theories. Maybe Craig will read this and follow the same lead as Cornell did 17 years ago ;-)

Cheers - Dave

Well, the reason they call it space-time is because time is space.

Let's separate time:

There's natural time and there's man-made time. Natural time is made up of the perceptual effects of change (i.e., the Earth rotating and revolving around the sun, the moon and sun changing the tides, continental drift and erosion).

Then there's man-made time, which is really just the metaphors we've come up with to "measure" natural time (seconds, minutes, hours, days and so on) which is a form of external processing and internal referent for us to store and refer back to information extra-generationally. In other words, a symbolic sign system that allows for the cataloging of information beyond the limiting capacity of a single human life-span (Mayan calendar, star charts, farmers' almanacs, etc.).

There is no difference between space and time. Time is just our egocentric perspective on motion and distance. If it takes me 15 minutes to walk to the store, the store is the equivalent distance. Fifteen minutes transpired because my watch says so. And the watch is based on what? The watch is based on the 24 hour rotation period, meaning that the Earth also moved 1/96th of its rotation while I was walking to the store. I could have just sat at home for those 15 minutes, not going anywhere, but the Earth would still have moved that same 1/96th of its rotation. But if I have not moved from my location, what would be the point of cataloging time during that 15 minute period? Well, that's going into social theory relating to time and the point of the OP was the relationship of depth with time to show that the universe is 2D.

I'm not sure if I understand where depth is coming from if it is 2D. If we're on a plane, how can the Earth be a sphere? I get the relationship between depth and time, but not between a plane and depth...then again, I never got to take one physics class in all my years of high school or university coursework. I suppose I'll have to look into physics on my own to figure this one out.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
What if it's not even 2 dimensional? Or 1?

What if it's zero dimensional? And we are all inside the singularity? Like the big bang never happened yet...

Or the big bang never caused disunity. And we are all still in singularity but the connection which is full cannot be perceived in the current perspective as a human being.

Originally posted by Sabreblade
I hate to be like this, but when I read the post, my first thought was " What is the practical application?"
If the theory does prove out, what can we do with it?
Will knowing something is not as we thought it was allow us to alter or change anything in day to day life?

Just look at Einstein's theory of relativity. When he discovered it, it probably sounded completely pointless to your average layman. Nowadays, it's used to make GPS work properly.

Pretty much everything discovered by science has a practical application that just hasn't been discovered, yet. If this is true (which I'm dubious about), it could mean that we could obtain even more precise measurements and improve the accuracy of clocks and other things. It's hard to say what it can be used for when you don't know if it's true or what the exact implications are, yet.

OK let me try to understand this in simple English.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So the universe we see, for example the room I'm in now, is a 2D image rendered for me to look at?
And the 3D perspective is simply an illusion? Sort of like watching a 3D movie? And the sounds and feelings we get are some sort of signal or brainwave that is also an illusion?

Please tell me if I'm getting close. Thanks.

The Holometer will finally do one thing that will open all of your eyes. You will finally see that your just a figment of my imagination.

reply to post by midnightbrigade


You'd think that the keyboard was real, but it's not.

When you touch it, and slide your hand down the surface ridge, and onto your desk...you're not even touching it, or sliding your hand down it, or even touching your desk.

Not because it isn't really there, or i should say (if this 'hologram' hypothesis is correct) not only because it isn't really there, but simply because you, me and anyone else who will ever read this post, has not in fact literally, physically touched anything...ever.

All we have ever done is interfaced our bodies atomic magnetic flux field, against your keyboards atomic magnetic flux field...and your desk's, and your kids, your wife, your husband, or anyone or anything else in this world.

If you looked at your fingers with a SEM or STM (or similar powerful magnification), you'd be able to see the individual atoms that make up your skin.

If you went further still, next would come the skin's atoms electrons...

Same thing with the keyboard, desk, trees, donuts, cars, people..you get the idea.

The EM field's generated by our skins electrons, would and do repel the keyboard's electrons, and so the atoms of each would never physically touch each other..we could argue that the action of one atom repelling another, is the actual sense of touch, as the force of repulsion would be transferred to adjacent atoms in our skin, causing a 'ripple effect' which is another way of looking at the sense of touch...rippling atoms in an EM field.

Makes sense really, as our nervous systems work on EM principles. Our brains are electric, our nervous systems are electric, messages between our cells and along nerves are achieved using bio-electric fields, so it would stand to reason our sense of touch, would be something like electromagnetic repulsion.

Even our eyes are nothing more than bio-photon detectors, which translates light energy, which again is part of the EM spectrum, into electric messages our brains can decipher and orientate into an image.

And now it seems not only have any of us never really, genuinely touched anything else, the 'us and anything else', is being thought of as not even really there at all in the first place!

Love this stuff.

What are we then..what are stars, and planets and moons?

Can we manipulate the hologram, to our own ends? Could we use it to facilitate interstellar travel in the blink of an eye?

Create our own individual worlds (perhaps we are already?) and choose the running parameters..life span, bodies (or no bodies)?

Are we like the flat prison mirror from the Superman movie, all pressed onto a completely flat plane of being, infinity wide and long, but only one atom thick?

reply to post by Thinair1


That concept of the string being the birth of existence that's in a sound/vibration form is much older. The Egyptians had a similar concept and the Hebrew myths are a conglomeration of Egyptian Babylonian stories along with their added 2cents. What's interesting in the Egyptian myth is that first RA came into existence by self realization through his name and after that all things followed out of the void of nu. Similar to genisis and the word of god rising from the void. Except the abrahamic systems negated the feminine void.