Many will abandon faith in the end times.

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posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36

Have you ever read Genesis Chapter 3:24?

Tell me the meaning of the term "Tree of Life".

Either you know the meaning of that term, or you do not know the meaning of that term.

Those who know such things were called "Gnostics" by others.

Those who merely speculate about such things are sometimes called Jews or Christians.

Michael




posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Michael,

Please explain your interpretation between "know" and "speculate".

Is it in your terms that you deem someone "knows" and someone "speculates" about

the Holy Scripture?

Anyone could cherry pick verses from the Bible and demand one to tell the "meaning" of it...

Those with wisdom will understand.


God Bless~



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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I don't believe faith will be abandoned. I suspect that it will be rediscovered -- in the true sense, not in as organized religion. Faith isn't only defined as having to do with doctrines and church teachings. It's really about loyalty, sincerity, and above all following the dictates of your heart.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by thegoodearth

Michael,

Please explain your interpretation between "know" and "speculate".


It has been said that "Those who cannot do, teach."

People who do not receive Revelations become theologians; Ph. D. theologians or 'do-it-yourself' theologians, as are some people on ATS claiming to be able to 'interpret' the Revelation of John.

They have no Knowledge. All they have are the thoughts of the 'thinker'.


Anyone could cherry pick verses from the Bible and demand one to tell the "meaning" of it...


But your claim is that there is no such thing as any 'hidden' Knowledge; either from Jesus or anyone else.

What about the Gospel of Thomas?

Was that Gospel 'hidden' or not?

Michael
edit on 27-10-2010 by Michael Cecil because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil

But your claim is that there is no such thing as any 'hidden' Knowledge; either from Jesus or anyone else.

What about the Gospel of Thomas?

Was that Gospel 'hidden' or not?



What?

I have no idea what sleight of hand was played to pull that out of, as I wrote no such sentence in any post in this thread. I claimed nothing of which you say.

And what does the Gospel of Thomas have to do with what I asked you?

Who is to say what is speculation and what is truth?

You implied to the previous poster that they couldn't possibly know the truth of the verse you asked them in Genesis, that it would be "speculation".

You didn't answer the question.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


The Tree of Life is salvation. Once mankind has returned to Yahweh they may eat of the Tree of Life and live forever. A popular misconception is that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life are the same. Either they are different or the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil changed its purpose after the fall of man. This is another area that is better explained in the Book of Enoch.
"And he [Archangel Michael] answered saying: 'This high mountain whose summit is like the thrown of Elohim, is His throne, where the Holy Great One, the Lord of Glory, the Eternal King will sit, when he shall come down to visit the Earth in goodness. And as for this fragrant tree no mortal is permitted to touch it until the great judgement, when he shall take vengeance on all and bring everything to its consummation forever. It shall then be given to the righteous and holy. Its fruit shall be for food to the elect: it shall be transplanted to the holy place to the temple of the Lord, the Eternal King"



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


The Tree of Life is salvation.


You are interpreting words on a map of a country or a territory that you have never visited.

All they are is speculation.


Once mankind has returned to Yahweh they may eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.


Words without Knowledge; something like fiat money with nothing of value to back it up, like gold or silver.

[further speculations deleted as being of no relevance, importance, or value.]

Michael



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by thegoodearth
What?

I have no idea what sleight of hand was played to pull that out of, as I wrote no such sentence in any post in this thread. I claimed nothing of which you say.


Oops.

Maybe I conflated two answers into one.


Who is to say what is speculation and what is truth?


Someone who receives Revelations is capable of determining what is speculation and what is Truth.

That, after all, is the purpose of Revelation in the first place.

Michael



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil


Someone who receives Revelations is capable of determining what is speculation and what is Truth.

That, after all, is the purpose of Revelation in the first place.

Michael



So am I right in assuming you are or have been in receipt of such a revelation(s) ?

Is it the source of your `obvious` conviction ?



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


The Tree of Life is salvation.


You are interpreting words on a map of a country or a territory that you have never visited.

All they are is speculation.


Once mankind has returned to Yahweh they may eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.


Words without Knowledge; something like fiat money with nothing of value to back it up, like gold or silver.

[further speculations deleted as being of no relevance, importance, or value.]

Michael

Apparently you missed the ENTIRE excerpt from Enoch I posted. The beginning statement was my abridged evaluation. You claim I don't know what I'm talking about, but you wont even explain what you know and how you aquired such knowledge. All your doing is proving the horrendous arrogance of the gnostics. The gospel of Thomas is crap because it was written even later than the other gospels (many of which also have questionable ages), is merely a collection of sayings of Yah'shuah rather than his acts (conflicting with the structure of all other gospels), and is the only gospel in which Yah'shuah speaks of salvation coming from within and from secret knowledge rather than Yahweh. This would appeal to Gnostics who, as their name suggests, think they know more than you do. Gnosticism is total arrogance and an undeniably heretical doctrine.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 


"12Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."

love it!

awesome post


S+F for my brother



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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Thou faith shall be lost by education; by greater knowledge of truth shall the lie of religion be finally discovered.

Thou pheasants were given religion of ancient times by pure bloodlines; it was a tool; a tool for our agenda.

Thou pheasants fulfilled our agenda; knowledge we shall now provide to sweep clear thou minds; clear of thou disease of religion.

Thou pheasants are as less as plants; as unknowing as common shrubbery.

Religion thy lie; thy bait thou taken for generations.

We shall now dessert thou of your support of that which we have fabricated.

Fools are thou pheasants whom think they are of understanding of truth in faith.

Thou fools have fallen into thy palms of thy Master; nothing further do we need of thou slaves.

The cancer shall be destroyed; Religion shall cease.


edit on 27-10-2010 by DarkRedSoda because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 


If one reads the New Testament it is hard to not see that Paul and many others believed Jesus's return, and the end times, would be within their lifetimes. When it comes to religion there will always be a certain number of people leaving the Church, if that number ever surpasses those that are remaining faithful to the Church then it could be viewed as people abandoning faith. The amount of people in who are faithfyl can only really do three things, increase, decrease or stay stagnant and prophesying ANY of those three would, at one point in history or another, accurately describe the current state of the Church.

I do agree that many people are abandoning Christianity however I also think there are currently over 2 Billion Christians... Perhaps if that number drops to 1 Billion within a month I'll consider the chance that the Bible was right however right now it just looks like decreases in superstition and religiosity are coming from things like science, logic, technology, and people being too busy to bother with a religion that has little or no relevancy to the modern world.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by DarkRedSoda
Thou faith shall be lost by education; by greater knowledge of truth shall the lie of religion be finally discovered.

Thou pheasants were given religion of ancient times by pure bloodlines; it was a tool; a tool for our agenda.

Thou pheasants fulfilled our agenda; knowledge we shall now provide to sweep clear thou minds; clear of thou disease of religion.

Thou pheasants are as less as plants; as unknowing as common shrubbery.

Religion thy lie; thy bait thou taken for generations.

We shall now dessert thou of your support of that which we have fabricated.

Fools are thou pheasants whom think they are of understanding of truth in faith.

Thou fools have fallen into thy palms of thy Master; nothing further do we need of thou slaves.

The cancer shall be destroyed; Religion shall cease.


edit on 27-10-2010 by DarkRedSoda because: (no reason given)

Oooooh edgy. I'm so impressed. Everyone clap for the edgy guy *applause*



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by kallisti36 Apparently you missed the ENTIRE excerpt from Enoch I posted.


I did not miss it at all.

I deleted it because you are claiming that it supports your position, which it does not.

You are merely reading more comments written on the map of a territory or a country that you have never visited; meaning that you can only speculate as to what those comments are referring to.

For example, you have NO Knowledge whatsoever of the meaning of the term "Michael the archangel".

It conveys a specific meaning, which can only be fully understood by someone who has received the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous livs

In any case, which "Enoch" are you talking about? There are several of them.

In 1Enoch, the Vision of the "Son of man" is referred to as the "Vision of Wisdom", which is the same as the "Tree of Life".

Michael



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


How does it not support my position? The Archangel Michael has never been allegory or symbolism for anything, he is real. You could argue that the Tree of Life is symbolism, especially if you study the Cabbalah, but in the Book of Enoch it is shown directly to him. This is not during his dream visions so it is not parable or symbolism. I'm tired of you just saying that I'm wrong without presenting evidence to the contrary. If I am wrong about the Tree of Life, then explain what the Tree of Life is. What are these past life memories you speak of but never explain? My evidence can be found in the Bible, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, and other scriptures. You act as though your evidence can only be attained by being better than everyone else and you cannot be bothered to impart it to lesser mortals. Stand and deliver my friend.



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 

Faith is destiny, beiliving and faith is two things apart.
We may not control the big picture but we make choices.
I beilive in the supreme, the divine, that is god to me.
When are people going to become aware ?
Faith, do you have any idea what words you are saying ?
Do you have any idea what you are saying ?
Alien gods that made you fight, that is no god and that is no divine.
AN- As in year un as in united nations naki.
ANUNAKI you zombie, they control you, the pupet masters, the very people that control you, that run this sharade. Feble words that you may not understand, the true nature of god is mother nature she provides and we are individuals half connected to her half on our own. The bible it's self is a good book to understand it for research. Angels is in english, english is how can I say this, "NOT IT" It INGER. Translated means IN the COLD.
DARK, where you can't see, the super natural. So they get enlighten to try to understand it, they get drunk deluded, get wasted. You see latin is not even roman. It all started somewhere else. NERO is just an imposter.
There is the natural as in nature and the above the "super naural"



edit on 28-10-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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hey there , michael cecil....the words in the bible, both old and new covenant are supernaturally powerful. God made that just for a help and instructions on this earth.
we can be aware of the existential writings and yep, i like enoch to pieces for a special view of reality, reincarnation is your stance...please refuse to be a victim of that possible fact but off the target mindset. you are way above deserving that, being lied to. as we read the word it IS A SEED for us that AUTOMATICALLY changes our thinking, and we don't even have to try to change...it happens without effort. cool huh!
now if a lie is up for discussion, who would that be from. no matter, i want you to refuse to be a victim of what ever is lying to you.
it takes time to let the word soak in, but it is supernatural, just what we want in our plain old world here. reincarnation may be valid.....reincarnation may be truth.....but we follow what is written in the basic instructions before leaving earth to find peace and the easy life in this world
so, i'm saying Jesus didn't mean reincarnation as his foundational secret...that would still leave us in a physical realm...not allowing for spirit supernatural "beyond what we can dream" deal, that phrase Jesus said is a real hint or truism...when He said God is a spirit!


ps....i liked the readings on your link seven seals
edit on 28-10-2010 by GBP/JPY because: the ps



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36 The Archangel Michael has never been allegory or symbolism for anything, he is real.


(Sigh)

The word "archangel" means something. It has a meaning. That meaning is derived from the Revelation of the "resurrection". If you do not know that, I certainly cannot tell you.


You could argue that the Tree of Life is symbolism, especially if you study the Cabbalah, but in the Book of Enoch it is shown directly to him.


Says you. Reading from the map. But what do the words on the map mean? And who said that, in the Kabbalah, it is anything other than the Absolute Real?

There is a difference between the "Tree of Life" in Genesis and the "Book of Life" in the Revelation of John.

These are different Revelations.

And then there is the "Book of Truth" referred to in the Book of Daniel Chapter 10:20-21.


I'm tired of you just saying that I'm wrong without presenting evidence to the contrary.


Why would I go to the trouble of saying that you have no Knowledge if you have Knowledge? Do you 'think' that this is a personal issue, that I do not like you, or that I am trying to embarrass you? None of these things are involved here. I've got much more important things to do than to criticize what you have written for no good reason at all. You may very well be a nice guy. Maybe we agree on any number of things.

I read what you have written. There are no hints that you have any Knowledge of what you are talking about. That is not intended to offend you. I am merely making an assessment of the information that you have written.


If I am wrong about the Tree of Life, then explain what the Tree of Life is.


There is a term in theoretical physics which is bandied about probably more often than appropriate: "Not even wrong."

By which is meant that you do not have even enough information about the reality for anything you have said to be considered either right or wrong. You are simply not informed; that being informed consisting of a Revelation.


What are these past life memories you speak of but never explain?


Can you explain to me what the taste of an orange is like?

Of course not.

Memories of previous lives are memories of previous lives. What's to be 'explained'? They are precisely what they are.

Were you to have received such memories you would understand that nothing can really be said in 'explanation' of those memories except for the details of what those memories consisted. Those are of no immediate or particular relevance.


You act as though your evidence can only be attained by being better than everyone else and you cannot be bothered to impart it to lesser mortals.


(Sigh)

For the consciousness of the "self", this always comes down to a personal affront.

That is the only category of meaning that the "self" has in which to classify such information: that it is being, in one way or another, threatened; and that such a threat is to be understood as one variety or another of evil.

You do not appear to be accepting or understanding of the little information I have already given you; and yet you want more. It doesn't work that way.

Michael



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


You haven't provided ANY information. I'm not taking this personally, I understand that you have a very different view of spirituality than I. However, you have offered no evidence or this personal experience you are alluding to and keep repeating that I am wrong. What Revelation have you recieved? A revelation can be explained even to the "uninformed". John seemed to have been able, as well as Enoch and Ezekiel. Your doctrine of reincarnation is not supported in the Bible, it just seems like a hodgepodge of Eastern and Western philosophy. John warns us of this soft Christianity and combination of religions in his revelation, which makes me very retiscent to trust you (hence the "This man is a liar" comment I made earlier. Sorry btw). Still, I am open to any explanation you have to offer, I just won't accept this "You wouldn't understand. It is likened unto trying to explain color to a dog" tripe. As for as "I wouldn't understand"; I have experienced multiple lives at once, but I was very very high. I consider that to have been an immsensely powerful spiritual experience, but I also accept that I may have just been really really high. As far as I'm concerned it served no other purpose than blowing my mind and doesn't offer any evidence for reincarnation. That being said I have seen things you wouldn't believe and I am an experienced oreinaut; try me with this information and we'll decide if I can't wrap my mind around it. If you can't explain, I will simply write you off as an arrogant gnostic and a disinformation agent. What good is a revelation if you can't find some way to explain it?





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