Many will abandon faith in the end times.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Indeed Michael.

Resurrection, or as we believe, transmigration, transcension.

As i said, from the original teachings from that period of history, much has been corrupted, altered to read different to what was being conveyed, over written by the perpetrators of forced conversions and slaughter of those of the old ways, my opinion is, Gnosticism was much more in line with our pagan esoterica and beliefs, it attempted to advance people, but has been ridiculed as a heresy, simply because it is so similar to our pagan esoterica in spirituality.

Is why among the Churches, the Gnostic is the only one i have respect for, as a pagan with good knowledge in our esoterica, i am not prejudiced to followers, for many know not what they actually believe in, the reality, have blind faith in the main and little actual objective perception from external viewpoints, my contention is with the religions, the monotheist theocracies, not followers of them for i see them simply as misguided, to which is not their fault they are manipulated and cult-urally programmed from an early age with what is nothing more than a form of mind control and brainwashing to compel subservience.



Peace.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


I am amazed when a read most spiritual scripture, that it rings true. And then I listen to preachers that preach ritualistic, materialistic teachings that bend away from the truth of the scripture. When we leave theology out of scripture it makes so much more sense.

In my opinion, God is truth. Those seeking truth of all things will have a open mind and heart. They will not be fooled easily by deceptive means. Those that seek truth will not go kill their fellow man because someone tells them it is justified. Those that seek truth will not allow someone to starve, because their political ideology teaches every person must possess the same skills to succeed. Those that seek truth will not allow their own personal belief to block another from theirs. While there may be disagreements between man, they are usually in the design of society, and are not because both in disagreement essentially want the same things.

I consider myself a truth seeker. I also left christianity about 7 years ago. I did not consider it a crisis of faith but rather an awakening of sorts. One of the turning points for me was when attending a church where people laid hands upon one another and spoke in tongues. A very small congregation of nice,kind-hearted people who believed every word of God's book. One Sunday while they were listening to a woman speak in tongue I happened to open my eyes. We were surrounded by demonic looking things.


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Cont. I watched as these things looked like puppet masters. The rest of the congregation appeared to be in ecstacy.It was surreal but absolutely what was happening. I grabbed my children and I never set foot in that place again. It began a journey of looking into what I had believed to be my salvation since childhood. I upset many family members as we were all cradle Christians.


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reply to post by DeltaPan

Then you, too, misinterpret what I am saying.

What I am saying is not pagan at all.

Look at the Treatise On Resurrection from the Nag Hammadi Codices in which a clear differentiation is made between the doctrine of 'reincarnation' taught by Plato and the Revelation of the "resurrection"/Doctrine of 'Rebirth' taught by Jesus and the prophets.

Only hints of that can be written down.

It is basically an oral Teaching.

Michael

reply to post by Michael Cecil


When the true Messiah arrives then people will be resurrected.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The HUMAN Jewish Messiah will accomplish the following prophecies - ALL of them with no "second coming"' * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26) * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4) * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17) * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10) * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2) *****In other words - this must all be accomplished in a human lifetime***** * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4) * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9) * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10) * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12) * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8) * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8) * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19) * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11) * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7) * Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5) * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23) * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55) * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9) * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33) * He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4) * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9).

We need the Messiah and we need him now!
Don't you agree or not?

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by Michael Cecil

We need the Messiah and we need him now!
Don't you agree or not?

No, I do not agree.

Needing a person--any person--more than the Truth is idolatry.

It makes NO difference if you call that person Jesus or the 'M'essiah or the 'M'ahdi or Maitreya.

It is idolatry, plain and simple.

What people need is the Truth about the Revelation of the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

What people need is the Knowledge Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man'.

And, because the religious 'authorities' and the media officials are relentlessly censoring and suppressing this Truth and this Knowledge--hell, even the people at Wikipedia will categorically NOT allow such information to be presented--people become DELUDED with the belief that they need a PERSON.

The Jews, Christians and Muslims of the Middle East do not need any 'M'essiah or 'S'avior of ANY kind in order to bring genuine Peace throughout the Middle East.

All they need to do is live rigidly in accordance with the Moral Law.

All they need to do is to understand the Truth of the "resurrection" as a Doctrine or 'Rebirth'; AND that, if you commit an act of immorality, injustice or violence against another person, you will receive the consequences of that evil either in this life or your next life or lives.

The political nonsense referred to as the "peace process" is a complete waste of time.

What is needed is both Justice and Compassion--in accordance with the Moral Law--to resolve these issues.

In any case, I simply eliminated your fundamentally nonsensical screed about what this 'messiah' of yours will accomplish.

Why?

Well, in order to accomplish any of these things, everyone must first believe that he is this 'messiah'.

But, in order for them to believe that he is this 'messiah', he must FIRST accomplish these things.

It makes no rational sense.

It is more magical 'thinking' comparable to the Christian florid delusion of Jesus 'riding a white horse out of the sky'.

Michael

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Well that is in the OT! I'm sorry but you can't change God and the Messiah is supposed to accomplish everything I posted earlier. If you don't believe it fine!

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by Michael Cecil

Well that is in the OT!

Well, if you can't understand the meaning of Genesis 1:27, 2:7 or 3:24, you cannot possibly have an understanding of anything as complicated as the Doctrine of the messiah. It would be like trying to read War and Peace without having learned the alphabet.

Maimonides never received any Revelations.

Like Paul, he was nothing more than a metaphysical philosopher, who attempted to substitute metaphysical philosophy for the Revelations received by Moses and the prophets like Paul substituted pagan idolatry and metaphysical philosophy for the Teaching of Jesus.

Titling his witless 'magnum opus' as the Mishneh Torah--that is, a second Torah--for example, is a monstrous blasphemy.

That he had no Knowledge whatsoever of either the Vision of the "Son of man" or the Revelation of the "resurrection" is also very clearly explained in his vile and scurrilous Epistle To Yemen.

I'm sorry but you can't change God and the Messiah is supposed to accomplish everything I posted earlier.

I would not trust a metaphysical philosopher, claiming to pen a second Torah to replace the only Torah, to tell me the time of day....

Much less anything about the messiah.

But the cost of following such witlessness will be in human blood.

Michael

reply to post by Michael Cecil


You have complained and hollowed that everything that Christianity has to offer is proof. Studying Judaism and the OT I see Jesus as false. I don't see why you read the links I offer and quotes. Now Jesus is the son of man? I thought he was bastard born of a virgin who was his own God. The jokes can't get any worse what you have to offer. I was a Christian and to me leaving my faith was the best thing in my life. I love being a Jew and following the true words of God. Not a false Messiah and false Prophet.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by etherical waterwave

The second beast which rised out of the earth has two horns, just like a lamb, and it talks like a dragon. For the first beast to see it practiced all its power.

Once again, these passages have an esoteric meaning and a meaning with regards to the space-time reality.

In terms of consciousness, the "first beast"--that is, the "beast of the sea"--is symbolic of the consciousness of the "self", which includes the 'unconscious'; whereas the "second beast"--the "beast of the earth"--is symbolic of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Exoterically, the "beast of the sea" is the international political establishment; whereas the "beast of the earth" is the international monotheistic religious establishment.

Additional information about which is found on the website under my signature.

Esoterically, the "dragon" is the duality that arises from the 'movement' of self-reflection, which is the origin of the 'fallen' consciousness or the consciousness of the "self", referred to in Genesis Chapter 3 as the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", which is opposed to the "Tree of Life", which is symbolic of the Vision of the "Son of man".

Exotericaly, the "dragon" is symbolic of the mainstream, international and Internet print and broadcast media, by which the politicians and the religious 'authorities' propagate their lies and through which they retain their power.

Michael

This man is a liar, everyone. The resurrection is NOT a heretical doctrine. You are, I assume a Ishmaelian Muslim or a very misguided Jew or Christian that has allowed too much gnostic bs into your religious belief. The teachings of Yah'shuah are not occulted, if they were that would make Yahweh impotent and everyone for the past 1,000 years would be going to hell for "heresy". Warning lights should be going off when you see that he has injected Fruedian psycho-babble into his post. However, I must agree that the media is a product of apostasy and the only place to recieve the truth is the internet. Even so, the internet is a convoluted mess and the truth is hard to find, so you must do some soul-searching when faced with information or disinformation in this case. So much disinformation on ATS nowadays. Ignore him.

How many people commenting on this thread are actual practicing Christians?
Ones who physically read a Bible every day? (an actual Bible, not internet passages)
This is in absolutely no way any kind of accusation, I am simply just curious.

Originally posted by kallisti36
This man is a liar, everyone.

What is the source of your 'authority' for saying such a thing?

The resurrection is NOT a heretical doctrine.

The doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave is a pagan-Egyptian doctrine and the rationale behind mummification. The Pharisees 'tweaked' that doctrine for their own purposes.

This doctrine was specifically contradicted by Jesus, who taught the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; which is why he had to be eliminated by the Jewish priesthood.

Michael

reply to post by thegoodearth


I read the bible at least once a week. I am not a Christian though. I guess the church would call chastise me for not going to church. However, I find the bible has more meaning between me and God then listening to the preacher interject a physical interpretation of the scripture that I find is totally symbolic of spiritual meaning. For instance I do not believe god said we couldn't do certain physical acts in this world; rather, he said that we will lose our way if we become attached to those physical acts. I also enjoy cross-referencing the bible with other religious text. When leaving names out of religious text, knowing there can only be one god, and the messages are the same when interpreted from a spiritual viewpoint then I believe the name does not matter.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I guess I ask only because I can't tell you how many times I have seen Scripture "quoted" on here and checked it only to find it completely wrong or added to or warped and twisted. Because the Bible is not required to be "sourced" people believe what they see.

I just find it comical that so many educated, intelligent people at ATS, who ridicule others for their bad snippets will take Biblical quotes at face value, and never question that many who probably haven't held a physical Bible since they may have been forced to go to Sunday School with Grandma are just ripping quotes off somebody's MySpace page and throwing them up here to "prove" a point.

Same probably goes with a lot of theories. Not all of them, but a lot of them, if you google the main parts of a OP, is a rip off of some dude on the internet's ideas.

That's why I ask. It isn't a condemnation at all. Just a caution to everyone to be careful of what you read as Biblical "fact". No one ever questions quotes from the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran. Always check them.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Do you have any proof for this? The majority if scripture, apocryphal or not points to ressurection, including the ancient texts that were "tweeked" as you say. I've heard all of this gnostic crap before and that's just what it is: crap. Gnostics would have you believe that since there was some obvious tweeking of the Bible by the Romans (I do not deny this) that you have to throw the baby out with the bath water. Gnosticism is pure arrogance. Yah'shuah came to Earth to bring salvation to everyone, a gnostic would tell you that there is a hidden truth that only the intelligent and speshul people can find. So, either you are a Jew or Christian that has given too much creedance to gnosticism or you are a Muslim and don't believe that Yah'shuah was the Messiah anyway. Which are you, if any?

I guess I ask only because I can't tell you how many times I have seen Scripture "quoted" on here and checked it only to find it completely wrong or added to or warped and twisted. Because the Bible is not required to be "sourced" people believe what they see.

Well there are 2 reasons behind that. First reason is the Doctrine and the second reason is the fact that the "Bible" was written and rewritten endless times. In that process many Original Texts were erased or been formulated according to each Christian Denomination.

And to answer the question on the topic as to "Many will abandon faith in the End Times", in my opinion is that because the people will begin to understand how their Faith was poisoned, by the Doctrines.

there's no end. only cycles of infinite proportions.

and the truly wise ones will just go with the flow while the foolish ones are afraid of what comes to them.

maybe all of this was about them worshiping one man and building massive churches where they lie to you and steal your money?

o surely that cant be it.... , it must be science and all deaths of babies it has prevented.

reply to post by thegoodearth


I have recently had a reawakening as a Christian. I was for a long time a luke-warm Christian teetering on the edge of agnosticism due to the domination of the atheist agenda on the internet (don't believe a minority of less than 20% can do that, look at the youtube comments for videos regarding religion and atheism) and being bombarded with anti-Christian dogma for years. Then when studying the Bible and eheh... joining the choir at my new church (inconcievable at my old church because those people were self righteous bastards), I began to feel something. It was an all encompassing feeling that I found vaguely familiar; it felt right. I came to understand this as the Holy Spirit. My ever present depression vanished, I felt amazing (almost euphoric), and I noticed things that I hadn't noticed before. Since then, I take time every day to read the Bible and have come to understand it more through careful study. Through careful study you gain context, which is something the sites that claim it is false and condones all manner of horrible things lack. The Bible has been adulterated throughout the years, but that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I would recommend the King James Version for the new testament and the original Talmud for the old testament and also the Book of Enoch for a better understanding of Genesis and the Messiah.