Auschwitz Gas Chambers a Myth?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


This topic is one that is very sensitive and I was not AT ALL intending to try and rally a lot of Jew hate as is being portrayed.

When I posted the movie I was more taken by the man Fred Leuchter.

He seems like such a straight shooter and so matter of fact and what he has had to endure merely for stating his views publicly has caused him so much distress.

I honestly feel sorry for the guy.

The way he discusses killing people is very real and he was conscious of the fact that what he was doing was taking the life of another.

I suppose that I wanted to shine the light on him.

Once again proto thanks for adding to the thread.

this is what an Auschwitz survivor has shared with me many years ago.

"Paul" was an electrician living and working in Poland (born 1915 in Germany, died 1998 in U.S.).
When the Nazis invaded and took control of the factories, Paul (Jewish) was relocated to Auschwitz as a "skilled worker".
Paul spoke Polish and German (BIG BIG advantage at the time!)
He and his wife and daughter (4 years old) lived in a 2-room "apartment" within the camp, with shared washrooms and kitchens in the same buildings.
(Auschwitz was big, about 25 sq miles in size)
Clothing and linens were delivered and picked up by other workers. some "better" clothings were available from time to time at the camp "stores".
some "entertainment" was available within the camp (for "inmates" that were not sick). Things like movies and concerts were popular as well as bowling.
there was a hospital within the camp, staffed by German and Jewish doctors.
he was assigned work at the different factory buildings within the camp, as well as out-work in other factories in other cities and camps (transported by German guards). The wife worked as a matron in a school for the kids within the camp!
He and the wife were paid with what was called "camp money", and Paul occasionally got real "German" marks
from the camp guards from time to time for extra work at their homes (German Officers) or barrack areas.
supplies and services were available within the camp, and He was able to obtain extra supplies using German money.
He says that some "crimminal prisoners" (some non-Jewish) may have been "slaves" and they were not allowed to roam the camp, and were in fact locked in jails (within the camp) when not working.
Diseases were rampant among the camp "inmates", typhus was predominent.
most Jews were exposed to the diseases before the nazi (and Soviet) occupations - there was a typhus epidemic at the time in the "poorer" urban areas!
disease control within the camp was not working (there was no cure for typhus at the time).
although He never saw the "gas chambers" himself, he believes that their were in fact showers and some disease controls for incoming people who may have already been infected with (especially) typhus and who became infected within the camp. He believes that many may have died from "overdoses" of the "disease controls" that were used.
He later found out (after immigrating to the U.S.) that the Germans were using some kind of "insecticide" for controlling the typhus. He said that some mosquito spray used here in the U.S. had a "familiar" aroma!
Paul and His family were "sprayed" one time upon arriving in Auschwitz (as was the case with many other "skilled workers")!
he knew for sure of the "crematories" in use because of the massive deaths occuring in the living quarters that were over-crowded. the camp populations exceeded the living quarter capacities (for the general workers usually with no families). He witnessed many "stacked up" bodies of people who had recently died.
he heard of many people starving to death because of the typhus symtoms.
He and the other "skilled workers" were kept seperate from most of the others (for "disease control" as they were told).
when the Allied forces were approaching Auschwitz, Paul and some other "skilled workers" were allowed to "escape" and surrender to prevailing authorities. He later immigrated (legally) to the U.S. and He and His wife and daughter became citizens, and ended up speaking English very well. He worked in the Chicago suburban area as an electrician (made good money) until retirment.

He admits that Auschwitz was no "picnic", but also does not believe some of the mass killing stories.

He says it was possible that some Soviet prisoners (and other POW's) may have been executed as spies, but he never saw anything first hand.

I also knew other Jewish camp survivors living in the Chicago area. They all have similar accounts.

Against my better judgment, you are spreading manure. It's so nice the revisionists and out right liars are posting their version of "history".

Originally posted by Josephus23

One of the reasons that I posted this film is that this gentleman Leuchter that is getting a lot of hate on this thread was an expert in executing people.
He was employed by almost every state in the contiguous 48 to perform his duty of killing people and he looked at his duty as a job and he sought to do it in the most efficient and humane way possible (if that is even possible).

On October 24, 1990 The New York Times described him as "self-proclaimed execution expert and manufacturer of death machinery" who "was charged today in a Middlesex County District Court with fraudulently practicing engineering." It quoted Dr. Edward A. Brunner, chairman of the anesthesia department at Northwestern University Medical School, as saying Leuchter's lethal injection system would indeed paralyze a condemned criminal, but far from being humane this paralysis would merely stop the prisoner from screaming at the "extreme pain in the form of a severe burning sensation" caused by the potassium chloride injection. (Potassium chloride is commonly used in judicial execution through lethal injection.)

He understood the difficulties that reside in killing people and disposing of their bodies and his ventures into Crematorium 2 showed exactly how small the chamber was.

It simply did not have the size necessary to do what was espoused.

Many of Leuchter's conclusions are based on the assumption that it takes 20 to 30 hours to air a room disinfected with Zyklon-B; since far lower concentrations are required when gassing people than for delousing it actually takes 20 to 30 minutes to air out the room, and the forced ventilation systems used are more than adequate to allow the gas chambers to be operated without endangering the executioners. When questioned in court, Leuchter admitted he had not seen a document by the Waffen SS Commandant for construction issued when the gas chambers were constructed which estimated they had a 24-hour capacity of 4756 people, more than 30 times Leuchter's estimate of 156.

linky

For the very dense or those in complete denial, the above quote is somewhat important. In court, a record exists that tells you of one of the gas chambers construction (not bomb shelter with toilets) and the capacity of 4756 people per day. Notice the plural in gas chambers, that means more than one. You should also note this document was from the Waffen SS Commandant and not from the Ruskies or some Jewish led organization.

I know, real history in your face is easy to deny but hard to accept especially when it disproves something so dear to your heart.

As for my testosterone level, I have been remarkable benign in the presence of a massive amount of stupidity, and have mellowed in my years. 10 years ago I would have told anyone talking about this to go to hell and say"hi" to Hitler while checking in. Then proceed to tell you why your an idiot.

Great troll thread going though, at some point you may see how ignorant this tripe is....

Good Evening

This is an interesting thread. I would like to start with that no one is in anyway saying that atrocities weren't committed in ww2, ww1, every other war, but there are some striking questions about using Zyklon B in the fashion it's been reported.

A while ago, we were having a family discussion about Zyklon B (kids, school etc). So after some quick searches we came about some sites that had some good photos of the blue walls in the delousing chambers. There were no bluish marks permeating the walls of the supposed gas chambers. The bluish marks are important as this is the gas residue that becomes ingrained within the porous bricks used in the walls. The very small delousing chambers also has some good ventilation to clear out the air of the gas.

The other really interesting point to mention, is that Zyklon B is extremely volatile in a gaseous state. So to have a gas chamber with zero ventilation 20 steps from ovens running 24/7 would have been an explosion waiting to happen as soon as you opened the door, or so I've read.

Now I am in no way trying to say that the "holocaust" didn't happen, nor that people didn't die in war. I do have doubts as to the information I've been taught about the numbers or people killed, the amount of bodies one can really put through the ovens within the time allotted and still maintain the actual ovens. (the ovens need regular maintenance). It seems to me that Germans, of all people would have been concerned with these details. (for the record I have a great respect for German engineering)

Now just because some of the points can be proven false, doesn't mean all the points can be proven false. So it is very important to understand that many people, innocents did die in ww2 et al, and we need to learn from history so that it is never allowed to happen again. But to learn from history, we must first have accurate information from which to learn. Below are some supporting links that help provide food for thought.

Very Interesting Read

Interesting Read

And here

..Ex

reply to post by Josephus23


I was in Auschwitz last year. Crematorium 2 was NOT rebuilt. The one you go into is the real thing. So are the alleged showers with nail scratches on the walls. So are the mountains of Zyklon B canisters behind the windows for you to see. So are the mountains of human hair and massive rolls of fabric made of this same material. So are the massive concentrations of ash -human- found in the soil up to 15 kilometers down wind from Auschwitz.

For arguments sake, it is true that all of the above can only go to prove that Zyklon was used for something. That gassing occured in a room for some purpose. That human bodies were burned causing ash to spread for kilometers, etc. etc. However, you'd have to be a real idiot to not connect the dots. Dr. Leuchter or not.

I just cannot believe people when they say they used a pesticide to gas them, the Germans are clever and not fools.

You're spot on with that assessment, mate. Seldomly will you see a German endeavour left to chance or that has not been meticulously planned. Auschwitz was the most well oiled, carefully planned killing machine ever designed by a human mind.

I mean it. Auschwitz was the real thing, mate. You have to be there to realize this. You have to see the lines upon lines upon lines of trodden barracks to let the magnitude of what happened there sink deep in. See the rest of the crematoriums to see what genocide really means.

What is most striking, really, is the sense of peace you get from the fields and trees and forests surrounding the site.

The idea of the holocaust is a political football and it is used for the promotion of an agenda.

I completely agree with you on this account. The holocaust has served as a blanket for Israel to get away with treating the palestinians as crap and extorting mountains upon mountains of money from banking institutions the world over.

Read Norman Finkelstein's "The holocaust industry". I promise you it will be the most illuminating experience.

Just do not get carried away with denying history, man. The jew holocaust happened. Such as the gypsie and hungarian holocausts, which are not so frequently acnowledged, even by jewish historians themselves.

Cheers.

I will just give you the numbers of the supposed "gas chambers":

There were eight [8] ovens at Auschwitz. These were coal burning ovens, using European Coal, not American anthracite coal, a hotter burning coal. Modern Crematoria with the use of propane or natural gas takes three [3] hours to cremate a corpse. Anthracite Coal ovens take five [5] hours, European Coal, more than six [6] hours... First; for the benefit of our planned Holocaust, let us look at how long it will take to burn up six million 6,000,000 jews, with eight [8] modern crematoria...

8 crematoria at 3 hours a piece...

24 hours divided by 3 hours = 8 cooked jews per day, per oven

8 per oven, times 8 ovens = 64 jews per day

pause please......

6,000,000 jews divided by 64 cooked per day = 93,750 days

93,750 days = 13,392.86 weeks

13,392.86 weeks = 3,125 months

3,125 months = 256.85 years

There is NO WAY that the Nazis cremated all of these people, as the said 'war propaganda' determined through (IMO) the PTB...the math does not add up. Also, since teeth do not cremate, where are the piles of teeth?? There would be LOADS.

reply to post by ME1981


Auschwitz was not the only extermination camp. There was also Birchenau, Belzec, Bergen Belsen, Treblinka, Dachau, Sobibor, Chelmno and Majdanek.

Get your numbers straight.

Originally posted by RadioKnecht
reply to post by ME1981

 

Auschwitz was not the only extermination camp. There was also Birchenau, Belzec, Bergen Belsen, Treblinka, Dachau, Sobibor, Chelmno and Majdanek.

Get your numbers straight.

NOT TRUE...

Originally posted by ME1981

Originally posted by RadioKnecht
reply to post by ME1981

 

Auschwitz was not the only extermination camp. There was also Birchenau, Belzec, Bergen Belsen, Treblinka, Dachau, Sobibor, Chelmno and Majdanek.

Get your numbers straight.

NOT TRUE...

Care to elaborate a little bit more?

reply to post by RadioKnecht


you left out four there was a total of 13 concentration camps...the american red cross in 1979 determined the total number of prisoners was 207,501...far cry from 6,000,000

reply to post by ME1981


Stutthof, Soldau, Potulice, Gross-Rosen, Plaszow and Zaszlow were not extermination camps, but mere concentration camps where mass killings were not held.

I thought you're "not true" statement was refering to the extermination camps as being not real

If that is indeed your position, I'd like to read your explanation.

Cheers!

The holocaust happened. Millions were gassed, killed and burned. That's the truth.

Deny ignorance.

reply to post by ME1981


Wait a second......

the fact that 6.000.000 got killed doesn't mean they all got cremated.

Warning!!! Very disturbing image. (mass grave)

The oven theory does not stand.

Peace

reply to post by RadioKnecht


ok, obviously you have emotional attachments regarding this issue. I will not debate you on this topic anymore. the numbers in itself do not add up.

open your mind,

Peace

reply to post by amazing


then i deny your response

reply to post by operation mindcrime


thats hilarious! the oven 'theory' does not stand??? im going by the numbers that society has provided that was 'killed'

reply to post by ME1981


LOL well what does that mean exactly?

That you think millions weren't killed? That you think no one was gassed or burned?

Please. enlighten me.

reply to post by amazing


obviously you are 'baiting' me...what does my beliefs have to do with the NUMBERS? all i've read so far are opinions. 'oh, the holocaust DID happen' blah, blah, blah

reply to post by ME1981


That's absolutely not true. I have no emotional attachment whatsoever. Don't have jewish heritage (or european, for that matter). I've just read the books, assessed the facts and visited some of the sites.

I do have an opinion made as to the holocaust happening or not, but I'm quite open to change it if provided with sufficient information. As you properly point out, "open your mind".

I'm therefore just asking you a simple question to a very broad statement you've just made. I can see you're new to ATS, so expect to be questioned about your opinions when trying to pass them as facts.

So, why do you say "NOT TRUE"?

Cheers.

reply to post by RadioKnecht


a response like the one you just made, is why i will disregard whatever you have to say. I dont care how 'new' i am...and the links i wanted to post in response, popped up 'website not found'...

peace