If this is true, the whole economic system is KABOOM for good

i am persuaded to trade gold for silver.
and i agree, in an extreme survival situation ,lead would be a better investment.
but although you may find yourself in deep uh-oh,
that gold coin could still buy your way out on a black market.
i stockpile rice beans oats nuts water ammo.
and knowledge- you will need lots to navigate thru these dire straits.
lotsa luck y'all.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Well the one great thing about this is maybe the Police Powers act will be a good thing. All homeowners get to keep their homes, all debts forgiven, all money kept can be exchanged for the new currency system we will inevitably have to create. And then everyone gets a fresh clean start. The only losers will really be the rich. Although many probably got rich on the backs of fraud or deceit. Those that claim they are just smarter and earned their money surely will be able to do it again once the system is redesigned and fair right?

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I dunno man, I don't think its going to be as easy as all that. Depends on how bad it is truly going to get..

I'm starting to think that we are going to see a collapse of cataclysmic proportions world-wide, and hopefully, hopefully as politics inevitably breaks down amongst the chaos no one starts throwing the big bombs at each other. I'm not ruling anything out at this point

Originally posted by Nomad451
I hope someone can answer my question here.

Lets just say the US economy goes into a very quick cascading collapse any reason and the dollar collapses...

What does this MEAN for the average man on the street? What does it mean for your job? Your pay slip?

More importantly, If any Australians could answer me what is inevitably going to happen here in Australia? We trade in the dollar, so if US dollar becomes worthless does that mean our dollar also crashes?

Will there be any point going to work? Everyone talks about what will happen to the banks, trade etc... I just want to know what happens to ME

i too would love to know. i am also in australia and have been following this for the last couple of years. i have seen interviews on youtube with gerald celente and have also followed an australian expert called steven keen from the university of western sydney. these experts say something ie: steven keen predicted a collapse of the housing bubble about 18 months ago. he even sold his own house to prove he meant what he was talking about. when it started to happen, the government then introduced the first home buyers scheme which saw the market go wild again. you couldnt tell people that even though the government was giving them a $21,000 deposit, the house they were buying was now $50.000 more than 2 months ago because of the scheme.

gerald celente has also predicted different things which have come true. he now predicts a total collapse of the economy.

after 2 years of listening to all these experts, my guts is always in a tangle. i listen to bad news, then hear from the msm and australian government how good everything is. housing just keeps going up and up. we are now one of the dearest nations in which to buy a house. i dont own a house and i am renting. this keeps going up every 6 months. i am ashamed to admit that i feel a deep dislike for the people that own my house. they live in a big mcmansion up the road, and i get this deep feeling of when is enough money and investments enough for them. i feel bad for feeling that, buts its like you are a rubber band being stretched and stretch and feel that around the next corner you will snap. my electricity has gone up from $380 a quarter to $760 in just the last 6 months.

so in summary - i too would like to know whats going to happen. the doom and gloom people say dont listen to the experts, they never predicted what was going to happen. the experts say dont listen to the doom and gloom as each period that passes and no big collapse happens they say "see, nothings going to happen". meanwhile we just keep getting further stretched financially and more stressed by the day.

reply to post by punterdeb


I think our politicians and media either A.) Know how dire and fragile the global economy is, and that Australia is by no means exempt from this global crisis, but they just don't want to admit that to the public.. OR

B.) They have their heads so far up their arse they have go no idea about anything..

I keep hearing the media here celebrating how strong our dollar is compared to the US.... Do they even realize this ISN'T a good thing? This is not a pure show of how strong our economy is.. It may just appear that way as the US continue to devalue their dollar against what China are doing, and everything else thats going on.

I really despise it, it's deceptive. Aussie economy is going to go down the gurgler along with every other nation. It really seems as though the next big economic crash has arrived, or is just arriving. All I want to know is once the US turns to CHAOS aka France at the moment times 300 million.... What global shockwaves is this going to produce and how quickly?

I often struggle with myself in trying to work out at what point do I seriously sit my girlfriend down and say "Listen, the world is literally coming apart at the seams. From this point on nothing gets better it is only going to get worse. We need to pack up our stuff and leave the city and go back to our families homes in the country. S is HTF."

Don't feel bad about your resentment towards the house owners. I rent also and have been informed of our rent likely to go up.. I take it you live in a city also? I guess we just have to wait and see how this all plays out. When the US economy totally crumbles and the financial implications reverberate around the globe, I sure as hell won't be waiting till the day my work calls me and says don't bother coming in today, we can't pay you.... I'm going to already be gone before then. Because I know the moment will inevitably arrive and by the time it does it may already be chaos in the streets.

Either economic meltdown or civilization meltdown, I think the elite are preparing and building underground shelters for the chosen few.

In the past week there have been 44 earthquakes just north of Little Rock, Arkansas. This is an area that hardly ever gets earthquakes.

earthquake.usgs.gov...



ALL of the "earthquakes" have been at a depth of 3 miles or less. VERY shallow for earthquakes.

More like a depth for some very large underground tunnel blasting.

Also take note of the longitude and latitude. They are almost identical.

earthquake.usgs.gov...

reply to post by ..5..


When the dollar crashes, modern society as we know no longer exists. So there will be no more electronics industry.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
reply to post by Chai_An

 

And the layers of fraud come with layers of contracts.

We are virtually armored with contractual laws and regulations.

But the armor serves to strip us bare,and bind us from mobility.

Slavery.

I understand your point but it would certainly be interesting to see all those entities fight each other over who's the owner of a constantly resold mortgage. :-) Somehow I don't think these mortgage backers (banks, investors, etc) have any armor to protect themselves due to the fact the contracts were created due to fraud being committed with each resell. So as for a homeowner caught in middle of this confusion I would tell them to lose no sleep when the tiny wizard can no longer hold the curtain up showing a working economy.

i follow gerald celente also- seems pretty level headed and pragmatic.
like an uncle that taps you on the shoulder and gives you a heads up..
to me is like watching wiley coyote plummeting..he has time to scribble a little sign..
FUBAR AINT IT?
we continue to plunge and i shudder to think.
i follow james knustler a bit..global research.ca seems straight on.
definitely wean off tv..sports-all the distractions.
no it aint all that fun, you'll loose some friends-
as you hunker down an study up..survivalistboard.com
be prepared.

If you trade violence for dollars it's foolish as well, TPTB profit from that too.

Working for money is just as foolish as putting it in the bank.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I foresee a day when we will begin to trade in violence, not dollars.

I hate to think about it.

If you have your money in a bank you are a fool.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

If you have your money in a bank you are a fool.

+1

Originally posted by erumisato
Yep, it's a giant Ponzi scheme and it's days are numbered. People for the most part aren't willing or able to wrap their minds around how enormous the fraud is, and how low we are about to sink. Zero Hedge readers have been awaiting the finale for many months now, and I'm pretty sure that it will be very soon.

You are correct, and in fact it was ZeroHedge you came out with the Robosigning issue a month ago. They even said that this issue would blossom into a monster and it did. We talk about other countries not being so open about their financial sector, but look at us. It's starting to dawn on alot of us in this country and overseas that our financial system is a big ponzi scheme.

reply to post by Nomad451


its so stupid. im not sure but its like we about 2 years behind the u.s and europe. all you keep hearing is how good it is. we dodged the bullet. we came out best in this crisis yet speaking to the man on the street its not so. every night on a current affair and today tonight they have the real estate experts saying this suburb or that suburb is the next big boom. and i sit there thinking they are crazy. instead of showing on the news the rioting in europe they show how good it is that our dollar is now equal to the u.s dollar and to get on the internet and start shopping overseas.

the greed is whats getting to me.....the insullation scheme greed, the schools building programe greed, the greed of the big supermarkets like woolies and coles who have forced the little businesses like the bakers, butchers and fruit and veg shops out of business, then they start importing all the cheap stuff from overseas.

maybe we were better off when we did not have the knowledge that we do now. maybe there comes a time when you have to say, right if it doesnt collapse or nothing dramatic happens by say february next year, im turning the internet off and just living my life again. take it as it comes.

im not very religious but sometimes you do hope there is a god and all these greedy people will be struck down. i know of a certain person involved in the drug business. everyone knows whats going on, he just bought his 5th house, never worked a day in his life in a tax paying job...our kids went to school together and while his parents booked out complete skate parks for his birthday parties, ours had to be content with 5 friends at mcdonalds. and all the time you think his day will come, then it doesnt, it doesnt come and he just gets more and more.

maybe we are indeed the lucky country?, maybe we did escape, but i really dont think so. i think this christmas will be the telling story. but then again i thought that 2 years ago until the government gave all families thousands of dollars. we all went out like sheep and spent our money and the shops said there was no problem with our economy, its just plain crazy

(p.s) i hope i dont sound like a crazy person...im really not...lol

"Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her,death, mourning and famine".

"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her, and shared in her wealth, see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off, and cry, Woe, Woe, O great city, O babylon, city of power, for in one hour thy doom has come".


Just a thought....

I think the system will go down at some point. A system based on infinite growth cannot exist to long in a finite world.
Greed is indeed the problem, it has become the norm, it has become the false meaning of success, it is what modern western society rewards in the form of shiny beads/ bling bling to the greediest and there for most useful slaves. It sickens me to see ingrained mentality of greed and selfishness in modern western society and something has to give eventually.
And to the "im smart and i deserve the massive fortune i amassed with my intellect" arguement, i say, I dont care if the cure for cancer shot from your anus, no one should have the kind of money/power that some have now days. There is no deed or act or work in the known universe that warrants the rewards some get these days.
We need to purge the parasites and the parasitic industries they use to suck the life and resources from the rest of the world for their own benefit.
Most folks don't even understand whats going on though, its almost like a matrix situation, except the bs matrix is layered directly over reality and not seperate, and folks like us here at ats are the unplugged ones. Those still plugged into the system will defend it and cling to it till its gone, as they are totally reliant on it. Reliant on the system for their food, shelter, entertainment and everything else, right down to their self worth and the meaning of their existance. Folks look at me funny when i ask them where would they get their food if they could not purchase any, whether you have the money or not. How would you feed your family if there is no food for sale anywhere, and i get a blank stare, and that for me is the sad part.
The system will take alot of folks down with it, but not all of us by a long shot
much respect
ooter

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


if we could trade in violence i'll make forbes top 100 wealthiest people in the world. i have allot of it to dish out to the idiots who run the world. if you have money you're a fool, let alone in a bank. give to caesar what belongs to caesar, also means that it was caesars to begin with. the more money you have the more you belong to caesar. you're bought plain and simple.

best case scenario, convert your worthless printed paper into as much gold as possible, since if there is a total economic collapse resulting in an apocalyptic type scenario, the powers that be will fall back to gold to build up their demonic finiancial empire.

there's a reason gold is hoarded and buried in heavily armed underground fortresses. paper money can always be reprinted. gold can't.

spend your money on yourselves or help others, don't become like those fortune 500 hoarders who stock pile their wealth in offshore computer files to the detriment of others.[

Originally posted by djtek

Originally posted by Vitchilo

The game was to move money under a scheme of deceit and fraud. First sell the bonds and collect the money into a pool. Second take your fees, third take what’s left and get it committed into “loans” (which were in actuality securities) sold to homeowners under the same false pretenses as the bonds were sold to investors. By controlling the flow of funds and documentation, the middlemen were able to sell, pledge and otherwise trade off the flow of receivables several times over — a necessary complexity not only for the profit it generated, but to make it far more difficult for anyone to track the footprints in the sand.

I have just started about a month ago getting into this economic disaster and fraud situation so I'm not familiar with all the terms yet. Can someone explain to me what this paragraph means in layman's terms? Please don't just write that they traded money that didnt exist etc.. im looking for a good explanation, thanks

Let me try

Basically the large investment banks (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc.) got the idea for selling bonds backed by mortgages. In order to be able to do this however they needed a way to transfer mortgages quickly and cheaply in a universal way across state boundaries. This led to the Idea of MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration system). It became a universal electronic way to transfer title - well not really but thats what it claimed. Really what it was was an agreement that everyone will start using it and bypass the existing systems for title transfer - and even though it is illegal by state law no one will stop us if we all do it. MERS let people become their "employee" by buying a kit from them. HINT you are not an employee if you don't get a salary. These "Employees" then proceeded to claim they were bank vice presidents for multiple organizations and transferred titles willy nilly and basically became the only way titles for residential property got transferred after 1999. There are several problems with this - number 1 it basically violates most states laws, 2. The "employees" were not actually vice-presidents so they had no legal right to transfer title - so it is quite possible all loans transferred through MERS will become unsecured since the title was never legally transferred. This of course has led to the banks filing false paperwork to claim they have actual title and just lost it in order to foreclose.

Any way so the banks bought up most of the mortgages from 2003 on or so and began to sell Bonds that were secured by the mortgages. The idea being the bonds were safe because they were backed by people paying for houses or the proceeds from foreclosure on the few nonperforming loans. So this sounded like a pretty safe investment to insurance companies, pensions, hedge funds - basically anybody that had a lot of money that wanted to earn a relatively safe return without having the hassle of having to buy up the loans or collect the money themselves. The investment banks got to take fees for packaging up the loans into neat little packages.

Demand for the Mortgage backed bonds (MBS) was huge as they paid better interest than government bonds and most figured they were just as safe.

People thought this because - 1 Historically people default on their home loan at a very low rate (less than 5%) 2. The Bonds all had written guarantees that if the loans weren't the quality described the buyers of the bonds could demand repurchase at 100% of the original cost. 3. Ratings agencies (Moodies, Standard & Poor etc. supposedly looked at a sample of the mortgages in each bond package and verified the borrowers were of a certain quality - (verified the paperwork debt to equity , appraisal etc - which they received a fee for. 4. The Investment banks bought insurance with others - such as AIG that supposedly guaranteed payment.

These securities were so popular and the investment banks wanted more and more mortgages. Well slowly but surely this lead to more and more lenient lending practices because the lenders didn't really care because the investment banks continued to buy the loans. The investment banks didn't care cause people were buying the trash without ever looking at it. The ratings agency's didn't care cause they got fees for rating everything AAA, AA, or BBB regardless of the real quality. Everything would be fine as long as house prices kept going up because people would not stop paying on an appreciating asset. The lenient lending practices allowed more mortgages to get created, and kept prices going higher as supply was lessened.

Still it wasn't enough for the insanely greedy bankers, they came up with a scheme to sell Derivatives(bets) on the loan packages paying out or defaulting. Supposedly they always got bets on both sides before selling, but either way they got a fee for essentially becoming a bookie on bets on whether people would pay on a bunch of loans.

All was going great - Record bonuses for everyone, government paid off, and home buyers ecstatic that their home doubled in value in 5 years or less, all of these factors let them continue the fraud.

Pretty soon most of the new mortgages were garbage as lenders were signing up anybody with a heartbeat - this is probably what lead the banks to start pledging the same mortgages - the ones from good buyers multiple times. (This is just my theory)

So anyway end of 2008 comes and the inevitable happens everything starts to collapse. The fed gov immediately gives AIG whatever money they need - because they could start dominoes of trillions of dollars worth of derivative failures and the end of the economy as we know it.

So now in just the last few months, people have become aware the banks cannot produce valid title for many of the foreclosures they are attempting, and some of the buyer of MBS are attempting to force the banks to buy back the bonds at 100% of the price they paid - as the contract says they have the right to if they can prove the loans did not meet the standards they were sold at - and there is already a ton of evidence that tons do not.

Now lawyers are starting to smell blood, and are trying to get at the books of the banks - which no doubt will prove fraud like crazy. The fed has literally bought more than a trillion dollars of this MBS trash because they know it is toxic - and they want to buy more to keep this fraud from becoming known to everyone - That is the true reason for QE2 in my opinion.

Problem is I think it is now to late - many lawyers now know there are huge problems, and pension funds are required to sue to get back the 100% they are owed by contract if the MBS do not perform. Many are working on lawsuits right now. So not only are the banks facing buy backs of 100's of billions of dollars - they also face paying off on derivatives on the same garbage - often multiples of value higher than the real cost.

There is not enough money in the world to bail the banks out if the derivatives start blowing up.

Steve Jobs is the answer to this economic crisis.... Jobs is a genius and a humanitarian.... I wish he would run for president... but he is probably over qualified for the job.... I remember the old Apples lol.... wow look whatta difference a day makes

reply to post by proximo


Thanks for taking the time to explain everything. I have a much better understanding now, appreciate it.

My question now is. what happens if HR 3808 gets sent to Obama again and he quietly passes it this time? The banks go free and QE2 kicks in...but how much longer can this last?

This thread shows that many people are fully aware of the house of cards the world economy really is.
It is not "IF" but rather "WHEN" the total collapse will take place, and like many have stated for the first time in human history gold will not be of that much value. It reminds me of a scene from the sinking Titanic when a desperate man tries to bribe an officer with money(could substitute Gold) to get onto the life boat. He looks at him with the look of your riches are of no value in this situation, and he didn't get on the lifeboat. That type of scenario is coming.

The bible isn't to much into economic prophesy but it makes a few that pertain to what people have already have posted in this thread.
Ezekiel 7:19a

19They shall cast their silver into the streets, and their gold shall be [discarded] like an unclean thing or rubbish; their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath

Zephaniah Chapter 1 (Edited)

"The day is coming soon, very soon.
On that terrible day,
fearsome shouts of warriors
will be heard everywhere.
It will be a time of anger
--of trouble and torment,
of disaster and destruction,
of darkness and despair,
of storm clouds and shadows,
Not even your silver or gold can save you on that day."

Sounds exactly like what ATS members see and feel coming, doesn't it?