I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

why do you want to reincarnate, go to heaven, or do any other after death things

this place is insane- indvidual consciousness is trapped here

at the moment of death there is a doorway of escape to freedom
EVERYTHING else is ego and vanity.

What are your evidence for your statements?

reply to post by schuyler


I feel for you. I have had many of the same thoughts in the past. Our backgrounds in research are common so I believe you will be able to understand the response here.

What you claim is the nature of reality is fairly accurate. The generalities you give are quite satisfactory, however, the problem will arise when clinging to these a little too much. We do reincarnate, but not all of us. Some are teachers and others on specific missions to aid spiritual growth, evolution, spiritual evolution, etc.. Not everyone here is caught in the reincarnational wheel. However most do fit into this category.

Life after death.Yes of course. There is no death in reality. To me that word means lack of forward progression or lack of movement. If you are in a mental state where you do not move forward then you are 'dead' for the time being until you can adjust your reality structure. There is no heaven or hell. There is no evil in fact. There is only consciousness at its various levels experiencing itself and creating itself over and over. Even our own thought forms take on a reality of their own and grow forth. In that sense we are creator ourselves.

You are wise to be cautious in your beliefs. Beliefs can be detrimental to growth. This seems counterintuitive but I will explain. Let us take the most common perception. This is not a religious comment but a comment about perception limiting our ability to grow. Many people believe there is a hell and that they will go there if they make poor choices. They are so sure and have their faith locked in so to speak, that they cannot break out of that belief to see the greater reality. This limits their growth because they can only operate within the smaller framework of the reality they have constructed for themselves. Fear based beliefs will always be very limiting. These types of beliefs cause anxiety and fear and limit more pure mental states where creating a more productive reality is possible. The point is these learning environments are very limiting because one cannot break out of that reality structure.

It is far better to believe in the infinite possibilities of reality. With this belief, there are no limiting factors other than what we create for ourselves. It opens the doorway of our own creativity and allows the Creator in us to express what we feel and what we want to experience further. I believe that we cannot hope to understand the vastness of possibilities and truths while in human form. Our physical/mental abilities are far too limited to understand the scope of what reality really is. In this form we benefit greatly from accepting that we don't know and focus more on knowing self more and more. The self is where our reality is projected from anyway.

Here is the news that is both fortunate AND unfortunate for you. We do have control over our reality. We are responsible for much of the misery we experience here. This is not the true existence for us it is merely a learning tool with which we interact and use free will to make choices. The experiment is looking at the choices we make and learning from them. Of course this will turn most people off because they believe there is no way in hell that they would purposefully put themselves through the many experiences of pain, loss, depression, etc... but the truth is as difficult as these experiences are they still are learning experiences and opportunities for growth. I am not preaching this from some gold plated chair myself. My own life has been full with these negative experiences as well and from my perspective more so than others I have met. Yet my perspective and spiritual growth has advanced greatly through the years.

Once we begin to realize that we have control then we cannot blame. We must accept and own our thoughts, emotions, and beliefs. It is far better this way trust me. It is a very reassuring feeling to be in control rather than out of choice or freedom. When we see the world around us as 'things happening to us and us reacting' this is a faulty thought form. One I was caught up in myself for quite some time. However, to break free is so much easier than living in that reality. Here is how:

Reality is based on our own beliefs. We see what we create. We create by using a combination of three things....intent, focus, and emotion.

Intent is obvious in description but not so obvious in reality. It takes quite some time to actually decide on the reality you wish to experience. There is also a gotcha here. The subconscious ALSO has intent and a level of control over reality because of it. We must communicate across this divide between the conscious mind and the subconscious and let go of old fears and beliefs. This opens the door to new experiences.

Focus is the degree of clarity you are able to generate on a belief/creation. Quick example, if you wish to have a promotion at work your level of focus will help create this. I would focus on the many aspects which may build that scenario. Create the scenario like you would a day dream and fill in as many little details as possible. The more details you are able to add and maintain within you mental structure the more focus you have.

Emotion is very important. Level of emotion is what gives energy and life to the mental creation/focus you imagine. For the example above it would be wise to cultivate feelings of gratitude for the promotion (even before you receive it), feelings that you deserve it, feelings that others feel you deserve it, joy at receiving the promotion. Since time is a tool of physical reality you will not be using it here. This is a multidimensional process which is why you feel gratitude even before you receive a promotion. Thanks before anything has happened...these combinations of things CUMULATIVELY give energy and LIFE to your creations.

If you think about it this way you can understand why it is so... We are not really here. Our true self is projecting this experience like a movie is projected onto a screen. We are simply projecting onto a physical 3D screen and focusing SO intently that we believe we are in the experience. There exists a field of 'energy' (call it what you want) which allows mental focus, intent, emotion to create this projection. We, our-selfs, are within this field. As part of the consciousness which created our physical selfs....we can access the same field of creation.

You can deny all this if you wish, speaking generally to everyone, but it will cost you nothing to try. This will only open more doors for you in the end.

I dont aprove your post


the amazing thing is that you based your HOLE idea on the fact that when people are in a near death experience, a lot of them see the loved ones.

whats amazing about that? probably all those people were already influenced by some religion or culture that presented to them a "fact" that when you die you see your loved ones

lets say I go thought a experience like that: it would be clear to me it was probably my brain trying to use some kind of protection, since it releases '___' if I am correct, or something else, but it does a chemical process

plus: we all dream every single day, we imagine completely different worlds, so, its not hard to understand that we have that ability

reply to post by KingKickass123


I couldn't agree with you more.
However..............
Even the most minor infraction to the societal status quo, can and will get you killed.
At gun point, you do have a choice, but who wants to die?

Not much of a choice if you ask me.
The only way for humanity to end the condition we're in is to "end it".
There in is the problem.
No one will ever get everyone on the same page. At least not in this lifetime.
Too many agendas, too many hold outs, too much greed, corruption and evil egos.

(schuyler)

Like I said, there are so many variables out there, that sometime the math just works against us.
The results of everything we do affect everything else.
Something like the butterfly effect.
All you ever hear about is the bad crap though.
That's what sells.
The miracles of everyday life, most people take for granted.
You woke up this morning, you are ambulatory, you have loved ones and are loved.
Those are miracles my friend.
People never take the time to see that.

I don't have all the answers, but I do have hope.

It is great that you understand the fact that no one ever really dies...

But you also seem to suggest that you are trapped...isn't this a contradiction?

You could always leave...if you really want to.

reply to post by Faiol


So you're telling me that what's happening to people, is that when they are dead, and there is NO brain activity at all, they are actually dreaming.

And all these dreams just HAPPEN to describe the same phenomena, even down to the details. I don't know about you, but I don't normally dream about being in heaven or leaving my body, or meeting Jesus.

Also, people have accurately recalled conversations in another room that were happening while they were dead. But I guess that's just the '___' talking too.

It is illogical to dismiss all the evidence that NDE's are real. There's just too much of it. If you think something like '___' is the culprit, you obviously haven't spent much time researching this kind of thing.

Why in love of all that is holy pick today's age to live in?
I know em and i would have picked the western days where i could shoot a criminal for breaking in my house or stealing from me lol
And when if your kid hit you or cussed .
you could whoop the crap out of em with a switch and it wasn't called child abuse.

There is no way i was reincarnated cause personally i think this era we live in sucks

Provocative OP. Fabulous responses. Thank you.

Originally posted by Chett
good/evil
black/white
male/female
yin/yang

There is where I found my answer, one does not exist without the other. The concept of good is nothing without the evil to oppose it.

Agreed. And this is where I find my solace - Life is to be experienced more than understood. The understanding, I hope, comes later. "The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine."

reply to post by BobbinHood


This is death in a nutshell...don;t read if you get the creep from death.

When you sleep and then you wake up..and remember no dreams at all..Remember doing that?
You could care less if you was dead or alive.
Just darkness.

Same thing happens when we die end of story.
Without brain activity...We would have nothing but darkness.
Darkness so deep we could care less about.
Why not care..do you care about the darkness when you sleep?

Close your eye's.
Try to picture nothingness...A void..No light no sound...No picture yourself not caring about all of the darkness.
Cause that is death folk's.

How about this for a thought? We are all immortal being based in the spirit world, 4th or beyond dimensions, heaven, hell, another plane of existence, whatever. Being immortal, we have existed for an unimaginable period of time, and boredom has set in. A boredom unlike anything you can imagine. Each minute of each hour of each day feels like an eternity and may as well be as the endless expanse of time lays out before us. When our universe colapses in a "big crunch" many years from now, we will endure and continue on for an infinite amount of big bangs and crunches or whatever the reality of the universe and beyond may be.

So, we create a world and people and put our spirit forms into the people to experience SOMTHING beyond the vast endless boredom that has been our existance. We actually PREFER the pain of starvation, torture and such as it is better than our endless existence! Maybe, just maybe this is better! Who said the afterlife is all flowers and roses?

Chew on that!
ps

reply to post by TheAmused


I believe there is evidence to the contrary, some of which is in my last post that you just responded to... Which you didn't even really address

What many of you are talking about is polarity:

In order to understand something, the opposit must exist to see it in context. For example, if you were born in a square room, you would not be able to comprehend it unless you were introdcued to the concept of round. To you, square would be the only reality. Something opposing or opposit must exist to see it apart from reality.

The problem with polarity is that it's opposit is often very unpleasant. Highly advanced societies don't need to experience polarity in order to comprehend reality. They just assume polarity exists but choose not to experience it.

Earth is still in kindergarten.

We still need to experience polarity in order to create a context for reality.

What is the meaning of life?

There is NO MEANING, except for the meaning that YOU give it.

You impart meaning on your own reality---what is important to you, how you interpret life, etc.

This is called creating your own reality.

What is the meaning of life?

The meaning that you alone assign to it.

I think the secondlife comparison may be closer to a truth than you may give credit for.

So...when you log into SL, does your avatar become frustrated that you logged in?

Originally posted by die_another_day
What are your evidence for your statements?

Evidence for philosophy and metaphysics?

0o

Originally posted by BobbinHood
reply to post by Faiol

 

So you're telling me that what's happening to people, is that when they are dead, and there is NO brain activity at all, they are actually dreaming.

And all these dreams just HAPPEN to describe the same phenomena, even down to the details. I don't know about you, but I don't normally dream about being in heaven or leaving my body, or meeting Jesus.

Also, people have accurately recalled conversations in another room that were happening while they were dead. But I guess that's just the '___' talking too.

It is illogical to dismiss all the evidence that NDE's are real. There's just too much of it. If you think something like '___' is the culprit, you obviously haven't spent much time researching this kind of thing.

edit on 10/21/2010 by BobbinHood because: (no reason given)

good that you did your research

people in NDE cant keep track of time, so, how the heck do you know that when they experienced those hallucinations they didnt have brain activity? just because they say it looked like it past 5 minutes ,it doesnt mean they had brain activity for 5 minutes, probably everything happened in just one second

watching documentaries about it, thats the huge problem they face when they try to study this

I guess everything you said could be true. Or, maybe you just die and that's it. Like a fire, you just burn out.

People are so negative. Accept this life for what it is. A chance to live. Without it, you wouldn't have had a chance to start this thread.

I don't necessarily believe that people just die and that's it. But, I'm certainly not going to wonder through my life fearing that my sin may cast me into a lake of fire, or that after I die I may end up a slave in ancient Egypt.

It's life! Enjoy.

Originally posted by Faiol
lets say I go thought a experience like that: it would be clear to me it was probably my brain trying to use some kind of protection, since it releases '___' if I am correct, or something else, but it does a chemical process

Fair enough, however, how do you know that this reality, right now, is neither a dream state, nor a near death vision of sorts? How can you be sure this is real?

I have asked people about NDE's. General agnostics and such, and they all accepted it could be some brain screwup, however, they said that what happened to them was just as real as this reality...not a foggy absurd dream state..and it even felt "more real"..like they were waking up.
One guy, a MENSA member whom was a soft athiest beforehand (simply lacked any belief in such things) and simply spent his time working on his neural network computer prototypes told me it would be easier to accept this reality as the illusion verses what he experienced personally, however he realized also there is no way to prove anything he said...because of the nature.

I have my beliefs on the matter, but won't discuss them too much beyond..lets wait and see.

(I wonder, if a person whom demands nothing after death will get what they demand...if we all get what we are comfortable with)

people here talking about the concept of duality

thats simply CLOSED MINDED

the reality is that you simply cant classify something as good or evil; you can only do that if you purpose some rules, or base in your own understanding, perspective ...

there isnt duality, its just humans thinking they know everything