"Newborn child taken away because of a bagel"

This story, dated October 15, 2010, appears on the ABC news website. This happened in the state of Pennsylvania. A mother ate a bagel with poppy seeds on it the day she gave birth, and the hospital ran a routine test on the mother for drugs, which showed a positive for opium, because it comes from the poppy plant. The police and child protective services came to the mother's home a day later, took the child, and it took 5 days for the mother to get her child back.

I hope she owns the state. The first few days are so important for mothers and babies to bond, not to mention the colostrum in the mother's milk that is vital to a baby's immune system. Bastards.

Just so you guys are aware Medical staff, Law Enforcement, Counselors and teachers are whats called a "Mandatory Reporter". If these people come across a situation where there is potential abuse / endangerment of a child, they are required by law to report it. If they do not, and something happens, then they can be held liable for failing to act.

Doctors and Law Enforcement can "seize" a child using an emergency hold (In my state we can only seize a child for 12 hours, after which we have to go see a judge).

This is not the first time a poppy seed bagel caused an issue. A while back an officer ate a poppy-seed bagel, and got hit with a random drug test that day. It showed in his system, and it took a few days to clear up.

Common sense should have been applied to this situation, and obviously it was not.

I've been looking for information about what is considered due process for child protective services, but after googling it I see that this is a huge topic and I'm at a loss as to where to focus.

My impression from listening to Alex Jones, who talks about CPS often, is that there is an administrative judge, as opposed to a regular court where the parents would be represented, that makes decisions about taking children away from their parents. That's a lot of power to give to one person.

Except if she was not telling the truth about the poppy seed bagel and the baby get sum cracked up milk in her system. There are too many cases of drugged mothers to not have a standard. It was not the same day either it was three days later.

www.telegraph.co.uk...
"ACLU attorney Sara Rose told WPXI-TV that Lawrence County Children and Youth Services officials came to Elizabeth Mort's home three days after she gave birth at Jameson Hospital in New Castle last month. "

Once again drugs separate people.

Originally posted by KopKoos
Except if she was not telling the truth about the poppy seed bagel and the baby get sum cracked up milk in her system. There are too many cases of drugged mothers to not have a standard. It was not the same day either it was three days later.

www.telegraph.co.uk...
"ACLU attorney Sara Rose told WPXI-TV that Lawrence County Children and Youth Services officials came to Elizabeth Mort's home three days after she gave birth at Jameson Hospital in New Castle last month. "

Once again drugs separate people.

Yeah, ban the bagel... Down with dough.

Stupid ridiculous laws like this - there is often a history with these so called 'mothers with no standards' where they have a record or have easily provable signs of being a drug ABUSER.

But nah, don't check her history or check her for signs - she's instant criminal, remove the child.

You have to wonder just how many people have lost their jobs over rubbish like this...

drugs separate people... sure...

reply to post by KopKoos


The important question is due process.

Court hearings are where all the facts come out. This won't happen if only one side is represented.

Also, suppose the mother abuses drugs. The baby is better off in the hands of the government? These are difficult questions.

reply to post by Mary Rose


Depending on the State, there will be a judge assigned. In my state its one of the circuit court judges. If a child is seized it triggers 2 investigations (in my state anyways), one criminal the other civil (dealing with the childs status).

Law Enforcement and CPS/DFS conduct their investigations (LEO criminal / CPS civil) to figure out what happened. Law Enforcement has time to do an in depth investigation before presenting it the the PA..

CPS/DFS have a much stricter time frame, having to report often to the Judge, the representative of the parents (their lawyer) and whats called a guardian ad litem. The ad litem is the representative that is assigned to the child to represent during the process to ensure their rights / interests are being looked after ( The PA and the parents cant represent the child due to the conflict of interest, ethics issues, etc..)

Its sounds crappy I know, but its there for the protection of the child on the off chance, as someone else pointed out, the parent is not being truthful.

Generally the child is placed with close family members after a background check to limit the potential separation issues, as well as to keep the parents calm since they obviously have a serious issue on their hands.

Once everything checks out and its a non issue, child goes back to parents.

If it doesn't work out, a judge will work with CPS/DFS to find placement for the child during the criminal investigation. All attempts are made to place the child with a family member, and depending on severity parents will get visitation rights during the process.

Hope this info helps people understand how it works. As I said before it will vary some state to state.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You seem to be saying that due process happens after the child has already been taken away.

I don't think that's due process at all.

An article entitled "Child Abduction Services: Legal in the U.S." states:

. . . What we once dubbed as Child Protective Services, may have started off protecting children, but in the 1990s, when a bill was passed to give them monetary incentives for each child taken from the home, it has become the largest legalized child abduction operation of modern day. . . .

. . . Brenda Scott, author of Out of Control. Who’s Watching Our Child Protection Agencies?, in her study of CPS concluded, “Child Protective Services is out of control. The system, as it operates today, should be scrapped. … Removal is the first resort, not the last. With insufficient checks and balances, the system that was designed to protect children has become the greatest perpetrator of harm.” . . .

Taking custody of the mother and the child would be better than what they're doing.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

You seem to be saying that due process happens after the child has already been taken away.

I don't think that's due process at all.

Yes and no. The guardian ad litem is the representative for the child. Generally speaking the parents would be making decisions for the child. Since there is a possibility the parents are endangering their child, you can't trust them to make an appropriate decision. The Prosecutors office can't represent the child because of the same conflict.

Does it work? Depends on what state you are in I guess. I have had several conversations with DFS agents in my state. I have had to remind them on several occasions they don't have any legal authority to seize a child (some states they have the authority). I have had to go so far to point out that even though the DFS agent has a court order, they aren't allowed to execute the warrant.

The system is far from perfect, which is why they do as much as they can to place the child with immediate family / close relatives / grand parents.

Looking in from the outside, the entire process is massively messed up. On the inside though there are factors that must be taken into account. First and foremost discovering what happened to the child, and whether it was accidental or intentional.

Here is my question for you.

What would you do if you had to investigate a child abuse case as law enforcement / Child protective services. The reason I ask is I've done my share of investigating child abuse, so I know first hand how the system is. I just don't really know what people are expecting to happen in this type of situation. Would you leave the child with the parents?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
What would you do if you had to investigate a child abuse case as law enforcement / Child protective services. The reason I ask is I've done my share of investigating child abuse, so I know first hand how the system is. I just don't really know what people are expecting to happen in this type of situation. Would you leave the child with the parents?

If you work for CPS, you are carrying out mandates that you have not crafted yourself.

This issue has to be dealt with by exploring the laws in question and how they need to be changed.

This is a huge topic and it needs public attention, along with all the other horrors we have to deal with.

I will be spending time online looking for more details on what is really going on and what needs to be done. In addition to the problem of babies being taken away without due process, then being returned, I understand there are cases of CPS being complicit in babies being sold. Babies with blond hair and blue eyes are especially in demand, I understand.

reply to post by Mary Rose


If you have any questions for your research let me know and I will try to help and answer them if possible.

As far as the child being sold, the amount of paperwork that has to be done on behalf of Medical, Child Protective Services and Law Enforcement would pretty much preclude that from happening except in very rare extreme cases.

The due process you keep talking about is present - The Guardian ad litem.


Depending on the age of the child there are other services available (Specialized counselors that do the child interviews rather than it being law enforcement or some other potentially intimidating figure. The training they go through is very good from what I have observed.

as a side note I should say I live in the US, so are the laws I deal with. Not sure if you are from the US or another country. Thought I should ask that before we quote the wrong countries laws and procedures.

I thought eating a bagel had been proven to not test positive. You had to eat some outrageous amount of the seeds to test positive.

Has the test changed? Were Mythbusters and Food Science wrong?

Regardless, I'd rather see 10 babies die of mistreatment by their crackhead parents than see 1 child ripped from her parents by the state for eating a bagel.

You know why I say this? Because I'm cruel? Hate babies? No. Because those 10 babies born of crackhead parents are going to be abused and suffer and likely die with or without state intervention. The state is impotent despite all of it's power, violence and wealth. It will kick in your door and take what it wants and in the end the lives of the parties involved are no better than they were in the first place. CPS as an effective entity is an illusion. It may offer some temporary reprieve but in the end nothing changes unless the parties involved change.

At best it's a violent placebo pretending to treat symptoms.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I think what people were saying is its possible the positive hit didn't come from the bagel. That's why they were doing the investigation.

Poppy Seed's can show up on a drug test

The Snopes website states opiates (poppy seed) can show up in a persons urine up to 48 hours after eating it. The incident I referred to earlier in the posts is listed as an example on theuir website.

A St. Louis Police officer was suspended for 4 months because he tested positive for opiates after eating a poppy seed bagel.

Time to ban poppy seed bagels, lemon poppy seed muffins, and poppy seed roll that I love to eat at Easter.

Hell, most of the poppy seeds from my morning bagel end up in my lap or in my keyboard anyway. Not sure how such a scant amount could test positive in this woman's system.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The due process you keep talking about is present - The Guardian ad litem.

I disagree. The child has already been seized, according to your information.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
as a side note I should say I live in the US, so are the laws I deal with. Not sure if you are from the US or another country.

I'm from the U.S. too (guess you didn't notice my mini-profile).

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I disagree. The child has already been seized, according to your information.

Hmmm we both perceive that term differently. How about protective custody? The child is not an adult, and the parents can no longer make a decision for the child due to the accusations. The guardian ad litem is the legal counsel for the child.

Also, most states have a time limit on how long a child can be in protective custody. In order to continue with the protective custody it has to go before a judge within that 12 hour window (in my state at least).

Also when you are researching check the criteria established for the protective custody. We can't just show up and take a child. The criteria is pretty specific.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I'm from the U.S. too (guess you didn't notice my mini-profile).

I saw it, but didn't want to assume. I have seen bios with a country listed, but its not the one they are from so I just ask anyways.

Originally posted by XcathdraHow about protective custody? The child is not an adult, and the parents can no longer make a decision for the child due to the accusations. The guardian ad litem is the legal counsel for the child.

Also, most states have a time limit on how long a child can be in protective custody. In order to continue with the protective custody it has to go before a judge within that 12 hour window (in my state at least).

Also when you are researching check the criteria established for the protective custody. We can't just show up and take a child. The criteria is pretty specific.

This thread is about taking a newborn infant without a hearing before a judge in a court of law where the parents of that child are represented.

That is not due process.