Could a rusty coin re-write Chinese-African history?

Could a rusty coin re-write Chinese-African history?

www.bbc.co.uk

It is not much to look at - a small pitted brass coin with a square hole in the centre - but this relatively innocuous piece of metal is revolutionising our understanding of early East African history, and recasting China's more contemporary role in the region.

A joint team of Kenyan and Chinese archaeologists found the 15th Century Chinese coin in Mambrui - a tiny, nondescript village just north of Malindi on Kenya's north coast.

(visit the link for the full news article)

According to current history it was the Portugese Vasco da Gama who was the first mariner to reach East Africa, and he also layed down the basis for 450 years of European colonisation of Africa. However, the Chinese might juat have beat him with almost 100 years.

And this might explain how the Chinese were able to make quite accurate maps as ealy as 1418, apparently the map below was drafted in the seventeenth century based on a map from the 1400's.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4a3d6bb9f1f6.jpg[/atsimg]

This is supposedly the copy of a Chinese world map drawn in 1418(!). Let me quote from the site where I found it:

The Turks have Piri Reis, whose 1513 map shows parts of America and Antarctica with astonishing and, in the case of Antarctica, frankly inexplicable accuracy. The Chinese have this map to demonstrate that the story of how the ‘West’ discovered the World is only one of many versions of the very earliest form of globalisation.

The map is similar to many present-day Chinese world maps in that it positions at the centre of the map China (which used self-confidently to refer to itself as the “Middle Kingdom”), and not Europe. It states that it is a 1763 copy of a fifteenth-century original. Chinese characters written beside the map say it was drawn by Mo Yi Tong and copied from a map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle, or 1418.

Source: bigthink.com...

Could it be that the Chinese admiral Cheng Ho ended up in this small African village as early as the first quarter of the fifteenth century? They have found a Chinese coin, some pottery and even Chinese genes in the population in the area who could tell of stories involving Chinese sailors far back in history and many claimed to have Chinese blood running in their veins, which was confirmed by tests. Some of the population even showed Chinese features.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I believe there is an entire history that we either do not know or refuse to acknowledge. It is certainly concievable that Chinese sailors/explorers were in E Africa. I further believe that Romans made it to S.America-Brazil, based on similar digs and findings. And of course, the Vikings in the upper N American continent and upper Mississippi Valley. How about Israelites along the SE US coast... How did the monotheistic Cherokee name their god Yawah? Hebrew markings on cave walls in Georgia?

So, why not Chinese in Africa?

I don't mind the revision of history at all if it brings us closer to the truth.

Our typical western-centric version of history is one written with blinders on. They tried to glorify themselves I guess. It is nice that the Chinese have taken a renewed interest in their past. Good for them. I look forward to more new info coming out.

Theres also the case of an egyptien momie, that was tested and coc aine had been found, meaning cross atlantic sailing way before the chinese, so i am sure that the books we read today are just full of stories proclaming europeens and there decendents had the most advance culture. Wherent most islands in the pacific filled with cultures that had incredible ties to each other. Cool find, ive always believed in a different history timeline, and with more and more finds we get to see the truth about world history.


just my 2 cents

This reminds me of the good research by Brett Green in Queensland, Australia, into ancient maritime cultures, the native Australian people, the Gympie Pyramid and many other related things. From his lifetimes work it's understood that early travels by the Chinese, Egyptians and South Americans left behind relics which have and continue to be been found in Australia, from coins to small carved bone game pieces, etc.

I mention Brett because I have met the man on numerous occasions and had the rare priviledge to see the Relics he has found in that coastal/hinterland district over the years.

These were amazing things one would not expect to have been plucked from silt in a lake that was thousands of years ago an inland bay open to the sea. The most majestic thing he pulled from the silt is an intricately designed 3 foot tall, Silver, Oil or Wine Ewer that has been dated by the Queensland Museum to the Egypto-Grecian Period!

Even that pales when seeing very ancient carvings of Monkeys reaching over a cliff for a wild fruit.. that was found at the Pyramid site among other things now kept in safe keeping. All his work to date shows that there must have been very ancient seafaring cultures, some that may even be Anti-Deluvian.

His grandfather, and grandfather before that spent many years with the native peoples of the area and were fortunate enough to be taken to ancient sites built from stone that were also covered in a hieroglyhic/pictographic style of writing, which both men painstakingly recorded in hand drawn representations in their diaries for posterity.

See the hand drawn facsimilies here

The only negative to all his work in this alternative field of history so far has been the Intense Opposition by the earliest Churches of the district, and in having two black sedans appear at his house about 12 or so years ago with men dressedin black suits who burnt his home to the ground.. and when neighbours called the Police.. nothing happened until after these men left the scene. Fortunately Brett was not stupid enough to leave anything of importance at his home.

Sorry to hijack the thread like this.. just wanting to show that such finds are everywhere and so we need to reassess our concepts of History.

reply to post by Tayesin


Very interesting. I didn't know that, great stuff, have you written a thread about this, I would love to read more, or if you have tips on books concerning this I would be greatful to dive into it.

READ! THIS GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN A COIN
I think this last part is quite interesting. Basically saying Africa needs to look east to China?

It implies that China has a much older trade relationship with the region than Europe, and that Beijing's very modern drive to open up trade with Africa may in fact be part of a far deeper tradition than anyone suspected.

In 2008 China's trade with the continent was worth $107bn (£67bn) - more even than the United States, and 10 times what it was in 2000.

"A long time ago, the East African coast looked East and not West," said Mr Kiriama.

"And maybe that's why it also gives politicians a reason to say: 'Let's look East' because we've been looking that way throughout the ages."

Also, here is a few other quotes on just that subject
First an academic paper on "The new scramble for Africa: China, Oil and the United States.

Furthermore, Chinese involvement in Africa is occurring at a point when the United States has accelerated its military involvement in Africa.

www.allacademic.com... ion/2/5/0/5/4/p250542_index.html

And this one too.

New evidence is emerging about the extent and nature of China’s involvement in Africa. A series of articles in the Financial Times claims that China “has in the span of a few years changed the pattern of Africa’s investment and trade.” The paper admits to “only just beginning to grapple with the implications.”

www.wsws.org...

So, lets revisit that last quote in the OP's article

And maybe that's why it also gives politicians a reason to say: 'Let's look East' because we've been looking that way throughout the ages

Just google chinese involvement in Africa. Alot comes up, not to say anything will come of this but knowing our government and the Chinese govenment, things could get ugly.

This goes much deeper than a coin

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

I have in front of me the "Times Atlas of World Exploration", published 1991...
...
To add a quote from page 23
"Excavations at Kilwa in East Africa revealed that the inside of the dome of the great mosque was lined with blue and white Ming bowls"

reply to post by DISRAELI


And that's also interesting. The Chinese were quite aquainted with travelling in high seas it seems. They certainly had the technology to build boats and ships able to cross the Indian Sea and the Pacific too fotr that matter

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Not neccesarily, they could have followed the coast around the Indian ocean to Africa, crossed the Bering Strait to America and gotten to Australia via the Indonesian archipelago.
Given we have a coastline map, it looks like that's what they did.

Also, there was probably information exchange between cultures, so even though the Chinese had a map of America in the 15th century, it doesn't mean mean they went there.

reply to post by pscysm


When I stated I knew they had the technology, I meant it. They had deep sea faring vessels with wavebreaking keels, and they knew our clinken-tech, which allowed vikings to sail away from anyone persuing us, only they had another invention we lost, the compass.....

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Tayesin

 

Very interesting. I didn't know that, great stuff, have you written a thread about this, I would love to read more, or if you have tips on books concerning this I would be greatful to dive into it.

Brett has a number of books published relating to his forebears work and his own understandings from them about the native peoples of the area.. a brilliant series of reads.

But, he also put on out a few years back on the Gympie Pyramid Story and has since turned it into a CD E-book which is well worth the small asking price in Aussie dollars...

I'm not advertising the book ok?

reply to post by Tayesin


I'll check out those links, but they looked kinda kitchen made to be honest.

outstanding thread! 1500? wow. the possibility that more Chinese actually sailed to that part of the world. of course the skeptics would say the coin was just recently found there, but the fact that the coin was found does not equate to the Chinese sailing to that part of the world in 1500. the other argument would be that european sailors just brought that coin over there. just saying.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


You didn't say you knew anything, you said 'it seems'.
BTW that map is cool.

i wanted to start a new thread dealing with this kind of issue, but i'll bring it up here instead. i read an article over 20 yrs ago, and also saw video documentary about this. while a south korean news crew was in a deeper southern area of mexico, they came across a very small village that served kimchi (traditional korean food- pickled cabbage-takes a getting used to). it wasn't a restaraunt, but the whole village ate this food for generations and generations. the villagers looked completely hispanic, and the story goes that over a hundred years ago, in the early 1800's or late 1700's, a group of korean sailors somehow got lost and ended up in mexico. yeah, i know that sounds absurd. but there are documented reports (no, i don't have any) that koreans sailed from korea to hawaii during that time period. at any rate, no part of the korean culture survived except for this specific food kimchi which was so similar to the traditional korean food, the reporters were absolutely amazed. does anyone have anything further on this?

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Could a rusty coin re-write Chinese-African history?

www.bbc.co.uk

It is not much to look at - a small pitted brass coin with a square hole in the centre - but this relatively innocuous piece of metal is revolutionising our understanding of early East African history, and recasting China's more contemporary role in the region.

A joint team of Kenyan and Chinese archaeologists found the 15th Century Chinese coin in Mambrui - a tiny, nondescript village just north of Malindi on Kenya's north coast.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I read this same 'counter-history' theory a few years ago in the book "1421: The Year China Discovered The World"

Its a most eye-opening read and a version of historical events I'm inclined to believe is true based on the evidence to-date. It's also suggested that the Piri Reis map was based on the cartographic surveys that Zheng He's fleet made during the expedition

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Tayesin

 

I'll check out those links, but they looked kinda kitchen made to be honest.

Yep the site has been around for a long time mate.. it was made back in the days of Frames. And was also made by a non-professional working for free... which explains the look. But don't let the look fool you, I think it was kept fairly simple for a reason.. because we all expect sublime graphics and head-turning content these days, lol.

Originally posted by pscysm
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

You didn't say you knew anything, you said 'it seems'.
BTW that map is cool.

How can I know anything about what the Chinese just figured out? They are a closed circuit and has always been, the reason we never knew about this was probably that they hid it, since the envoy was lost before being able to tell of what they found. I am seriously fascinated by China and ancient envoys. What I can't accept is China's view on free speech. Why would any system make an enemy of speech and ideas baffles me. Same goes with copyrights. You can't develop your own tech unless you protect what was what you built your prototype to beat. And understand it all along. China looses in ingenuety, they are blasters in making things for us, but they have yet to come up with any working models of well, daily life without the hazzle.