US justice system failing

Link

The World Justice Project released its 2010 ‘Rule of Law Index’ ranking the top 11 developed countries based on its citizens’ access to civil justice. The US ranked the lowest.
]The study also looked at other factors including absence of corruption, limited government power and fundamental rights. The US ranked below seventh out of the eleven developed countries in all categories except one

The study also found that when it comes to limited government power the United States ranks 9 out of the 11 developed countries studied. Last year the National Legal and Policy Center found that the White House might be spying on Americans on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media websites. And not too long ago, President Obama re-signed the Patriot Act that allows the government to spy on Americans and seize personal and private records in the name of homeland security

Every report that ranks nations on one topic or another tends to shock many Americans when they learn the US is not always number one, said author and activist David Swanson.

The report looks at the strength of the rule of law domestically within the US. It measures the nations based on its own domestic policies and freedoms, as opposed to foreign policy.
“This whole idea that ‘they’ hate us for our freedoms is especially absurd because our freedoms don’t actually rank very high,” he added.

“Nations that have a good propaganda system, nations whose citizen don’t know what’s going on, are not going to object to the injustices, and a lot of this report was based on surveys of ordinary people,” Swanson said.

Im suprised something like this actually made it onto a news site. Im guessing many of us on here already knew most of this stuff in the article, but I thought Id share it anyways.

The article also talks about how people with low income are more likely to not get the legal assistance they need. I believe the US justice system tends to help the party that has the most money. The system is a money making machine. By that I mean they imprison non-violent offenders, and charge people with crimes that dont involve anyone other than the person themselves.

The US has the highest prison population per capita in the entire world. Last I checked, 1 in 31 adults are in prison, on parole, or on probation.

“They’re trying to incarcerate large numbers of people,” said Becker. “If you are a black male born in 2001 you have a one in three chance to go to prison or being in probation or parole sometime in your life. More black kids are going to prison than going to college.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0474408e6ef7.jpg[/atsimg]

The graph isnt from the article, but I thought I would post it.

“The corporate dominated media in America stops this story from being told,” he said. “Look for it in the Washington Post or ABC or even CNN this will be a very very minor blip.”

reply to post by buni11687

buni11687,

You know what I think happened?? Too many damn rules!!!

The more laws you apply, the more people will end up breaking them.

Harsher punishment only makes for harsher crimes.

Just my humble opinion.....

Peace

NO! UR KIDDING:/

get rid of all the lawyers and there would be less crime

reply to post by buni11687


I am not an advocate for the use of illicit substances. But if you remove the people who are in jails for crimes that could be deemed related to "addiction", such as possession, DUI, etc. Most of the prisons would sit empty. It is an unfortunate truth that our criminal justice system has been turned into a incarceration-for-profit scam and the "war on drugs" has become the poster child for this process.

Seizure of property, incarceration in privatized jails, God knows how many "tax" loopholes and funneled money in the process, with freedoms taken all in the name of a war that we cannot possibly win.

Our criminal justice system is truly a joke.

~Heff

reply to post by operation mindcrime


I would think there are hundreds of thousands of laws in the US. Ive tried searching the web but I havent been able to find the number yet. This Link is the closest Ive gotten to the number. In the top right corner it says this -

Congress has enacted 452 new crimes over the eight-year period between 2000 and 2007-a rate of about 57 new crimes per year-for a total of 4,450 federal crimes in the U.S. Code. As Congress subjects more and more activities to criminal sanction, the criminal law's power as a system of moral education and socialization is diminished.

4,450 federal crimes, but there's still state and local.

I dont think I would be able to even name 1,000 laws off the top of my head, much less 4,450.

Heres the link to the World Justice Project's Rule of Law Index.

Link

Its a pretty lengthy read, and it is in pdf format. Its going to take me awhile to look at everything on there.

They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids
Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids
I buy my crack, My smack, my bitch
Right here in hollywood
(nearly 2 million americans are
Incarcerated in the prison system
Prison system of the us)
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me to live in)
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don’t even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don’t even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich
I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch
Right here in hollywood
The percentage of americans in the prison system
Prison system, has doubled since 1985
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
For you and i, for you and i, for you and i.
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
For you and me
Oh baby, you and me.
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased
While abolishing mandatory minimun sentences
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased
While abolishing mandatory minimun sentences
Utilising drugs to pay for secret wars around the world
Drugs are now your global policy now you police the globe
I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch
Right here in hollywood
Drug money is used to rig elections
And train brutal corporate sponsored dictators
Around the world
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me to live in)
For you and i, for you and i, for you and i
For you and i
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
For you and me
Oh baby, you and me
this is a song by system of a down talkin about how the prison population has increased due to more laws for all the laws some blame goes to your fellow citezens because some ppl are to week to stand up for them selves an want the police to take of that back in the days of the cowboys an probly before that u fought it out or shot somebody both good deterrents

I'm more curious about the credibility of anyone or any news source that has stated, "US Justice System worked properly"

From start to finish, the US Justice system has been as accurate as their Department of Defense.

Originally posted by buni11687
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

4,450 federal crimes, but there's still state and local.

I dont think I would be able to even name 1,000 laws off the top of my head, much less 4,450.

Now now Sir, Ignorance of the law is no excuse....



*Children should not be allowed to graduate from school unless they can memorize all of the laws that will likely apply to them after turning 18. To let them into the world ignorant of the laws is cruel.

I propose president Obama spend $250 billion dollars on fixing this problem.

I would base the high prison population on two points. Mandatory sentences for drugs and the three strikes rule.

The study is interesting in that just 35 countries representing 45% of the world's population was used. I usually find an agenda behind a small sampling when the sampler picks and chooses samples. I find it in this case also. Respondents for the USA were only limited to New York, Chicago, and Los Angles. All examples of fine cities, but far from a cross section of America.

Other can go to the report for further reading.

You can find specific country rankings here provided your country is listed.

The one thing that is clear in all countries but just mentioned is; the wealthier you are, the more chances you have using a good attorney. This is not a secret but a fact of any legal system.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by buni11687

 

I am not an advocate for the use of illicit substances. But if you remove the people who are in jails for crimes that could be deemed related to "addiction", such as possession, DUI, etc. Most of the prisons would sit empty. It is an unfortunate truth that our criminal justice system has been turned into a incarceration-for-profit scam and the "war on drugs" has become the poster child for this process.

Seizure of property, incarceration in privatized jails, God knows how many "tax" loopholes and funneled money in the process, with freedoms taken all in the name of a war that we cannot possibly win.

Our criminal justice system is truly a joke.

~Heff

What?? Am I reading you don't think people should be penalized for DUI? Why don't you go ask the millions of people who have lost a loved one because someone else was driving while intoxicated if they think there should be a penalty... Especially for repeat offenders.

Originally posted by jjkenobi

What?? Am I reading you don't think people should be penalized for DUI? Why don't you go ask the millions of people who have lost a loved one because someone else was driving while intoxicated if they think there should be a penalty... Especially for repeat offenders.

That would be manslaughter, yes?

So your point is moot.

You want to punish those who have hurt no one.

You also naively think that the threat of fines and jail will deter those who are not deterred by the possibility of inflicting death or horrific injury to themselves or others.

reply to post by buni11687


What the report doesn't said is that what is going on in the US is a big sign of how a government has become so guilty and corrupted that no longer can trust its own citizens.

The guilty the government and the corruption, the oppressed the people.

The only reason Americans still doesn't get it is because as long as the oppression is sold with multi billion dollar ad campaign of [b]freedom, liberty and the good of common men people buy into it.

Originally posted by jjkenobi

What?? Am I reading you don't think people should be penalized for DUI? Why don't you go ask the millions of people who have lost a loved one because someone else was driving while intoxicated if they think there should be a penalty... Especially for repeat offenders.

That is not what I said at all.

In fact my nephews father, my sisters first husband. was killed by a drunk driver, so I have a great deal of empathy for the subject. Please do not doubt my sincerity when I say that.

But, having added that caveat... Presently in my state, Georgia, a single glass of wine with a meal is enough to get one charged with DUI. That means jail, court costs, attorneys fees, and massive fines. It's a clear cut case of for profit law enforcement and it's a sham.

People with substance abuse problems need help, not incarceration. Only the most stubborn of recidivists, and those who cause harm while under the influence should face prison time.

Do a little research into the percentage of prison populations serving sentences that are based upon substance abuse and the only rational conclusion that one can come to is that our system just isn't working at all to solve these problems.

So why do we keep imprisoning more of our citizens than any other industrialized nation in the world?

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


There is no reason for ANYONE to be in prison. Prison is a breeding ground for hate and violence. If we put the amount of money we put into weapons, and the prison system, and spent more money studying behavioral affects of these people and how to properly treat them we would be just fine.

Treating a violent person with violence is not the answer. We build our society on the idea of vengeance. I don't want to sound like a hippie here when i say this but the lesson is the same. Treating the crime isn't a solution, the crime didn't cause itself. There are deeper issues that need to be addressed here and need all of you to take a different approach.

Our system is rusting out.
I say lets watch it melt. Let's watch it crumble and burn and turn to rubble.

You buy a new car, it's great, shiny and new. It promises you many years of help.

Eventually it starts to rust under the nice shiny paint, you put a lot of money into it to fix it.
It gets a flat tire, you put more money into it to fix it.
You put thousands and thousands of dollars into it for fuel and maintanance.

Eventually it will serve you no more. It's mechanisms are breaking, it cannot take care of itself.
It is only a machine, a tool that once helped you, but now it is outdated and useless.
Time will come for you to get rid of it and buy a new car.

That is what I believe is happening to our system here in America.
It's rusting out.
We've put so much of our hard work into it and it's failing like all machines do.
It's time for an upgrade.
It's mechanisms are breaking.
Out with the old.....

The Machine is becoming useless and more trouble than it's worth.

The thing that bothers me the most about our prison for profit problem is this. Once you get arrested you are prettymuch screwed, and that is wrong. Employers can deny you employment because you are an ex con, so you are condemned to a life of crime or really low paying jobs. This should be illegal, an ex con has payed their "debt to society" and should have all the rights of a citizen after they serve their time. Why do you think that so many people that get pulled into the system for simple drug use end up hardened criminals? The prison system itself for one, and the whole scarlet letter they have to carry once they get out.

reply to post by buni11687


SF because most of you hit the nail on the head. II have been a victim of this broken system before. Are you aware of disorderly conduct? Where they take 100 bucks from you for nothing, whether your innocent or guilty. Some feuding young adults down the road told the police that I beath their girlfriend walking the road one night. Problem is that I am blind and don't walk anywhere around there because it's a bad neighborhood. Their mad at my brother so they tell this to the police. Guess what? Although I did not get arrested I did get a warrant issued for my arrest and had to turn myself in and pay 100 bucks to bail out just to go to court 4 cities away in which the accusers never showed up to 4 court dates. Rediculous.

reply to post by TKDRL


I am suffering from this right now, the problem isn't even that you can get a low paying job, the problem is if they do a background check they won't hire you.

reply to post by onequestion


I know a guy, got busted with a few ounces of weed. Because of that, the only job he was able to find is working under the table for less than minimum wage as a laborer on a construction crew... He only got that because he is fluent in spanish and a translator was needed for all the illegal immigrants on the crew. It is sad as hell. Suffered through jail, debt paid to society, past jailtime should not be able to be held against you when applying for a job.