HAARP Can Not Control Weather....Can You Even Prove it Does?

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posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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First off, lets get one thing clear. Weather that affects the Earth, occurs in a layer of the atmosphere called the troposphere, and occasionally, the lower parts of the stratosphere. HAARP's target area is a layer called the ionosphere, which is some 75km's higher up than where the troposphere ends.




Also, it is not a secret classified site, which is patrolled by armed military personnel. In fact, you can even take a tour of the facility!!! Some secretive operation huh?



We recognize that there is great interest in the scientific work of the facility. In response to this interest, HAARP schedules open houses at which any and all are invited to visit the site. Several scientists are usually present at these open houses so that visitors can talk directly with those who use the facility for research. Open houses have been held most years since 1995 and have proven to be a popular event. The most recent open house was held on July 17, 2010.


Some of you wont believe this no matter what, but the HAARP website states the their purpose is as follows:



HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes.

The HAARP program is committed to developing a world class ionospheric research facility consisting of:

The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), a high power transmitter facility operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The IRI will be used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere for scientific study.
A sophisticated suite of scientific (or diagnostic) instruments that will be used to observe the physical processes that occur in the excited region.


So, pretty much, what the above means, is that a signal is sent up from the array to an altitude of in between 100 and 350km's, where the signal is absorbed. The actual volume of the signal is literally only a few hundred metres thick, with a diameter of around 10 to 20 kilometres. The signal is tens of thousands less intense, to the energy and electromagnetic radiation to reach the Earcth from the sun. The purpose, to excite molecules to observe the physical processes that occur up there.

So what I m interested in is how can such as small amount of energy create or steer a weather system, as complex and chaotic as those which we see on Earth? The concept is ludicrous, considering we cant even get cloud seeding to work efficiently.

Basically, the Earth moderates itself. In other words, it tries to keep equilibirum. For instance, areas of high pressure move to areas of low pressure and vice versa. This is also the reason why two hurricanes or cyclones can not merge and create a super storm, despite the fact that they will rotate around one another. So, to target a weather system at a certain point, you literally have to produce, alter and decay several things:

1. The jetstream location
2. Surrounding pressure systems, in close proximity to the on you want to move
3. The temperature of the ocean
4. Wind shear, and wind direction (which tie in with pressue systems)
5. The effects of La Nina, or El Nino weather patterns
6. The input of the suns energy
7. Cloud cover in close proximity

These several factors all come into play, yet I cant see how one small array can manipulate all these points?

So please, enlighten the entire meteorology community, because obviously we dont know as much about weather and the mechanisms that drive weather, as what conspiracy theorists do.


(And please do yourselves all a favour and learn a little bit about basic meteorology....how can you prove something when you dont even know how a hurricane forms, and how is works :puz


So come on HAARP'ies what part of the conspiracy am I missing here?




posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Well, it doesn't help your argument when you have shows like conspiracy theory not taking your findings into account - It's hard to fight the propaganda machine hollywood. Then you have the blind faith believers, some of which I guarantee will dispute your findings with proof from utube... just my humble opinion.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Just check out jesse venturas show on harp and you will see how electricity can move cloud formations and how it can manipulate u mentaly.

This is tech based on Nicolas Teslas therorys and in his documents showed how it can manipulate weather and earth plates.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Minus the ranting of what you know about meteorology, much like you ask of the viewers, can you prove that it CAN'T be done? How are you aware of all of the technology out there, released or unreleased?

When did you get de-briefed on what HAARP is capable of and who debriefed you?

Whether I believe it's real or not, I don't understand how people come on here and with threads like this that laugh in the face of stuff that NOBODY knows anything about whether it be real or not. I congratulate you on your achievements and work on this thread but the fact is, you don't know any more about HAARP than me or anybody else...



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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I knew it wouldn't take long. It isn't up to the theorist to prove his theory is possible. OZ you must prove that the theorist's claims can not possibly be true.
edit on 18-10-2010 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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If clouds can communicate then maybe, just maybe; they listen to radio also.

Okay, seriously, I really want to know you plan on tying HAARP and chemtrails together. They go hand in hand you know.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by robbinsj
Just check out jesse venturas show on harp and you will see how electricity can move cloud formations and how it can manipulate u mentaly.

This is tech based on Nicolas Teslas therorys and in his documents showed how it can manipulate weather and earth plates.


Did you just use Jesse Ventura as a reference for a scientific argument?

And can you please link the documents from Tesla?



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by robbinsj
 


Ventura's show is a joke.

The things described on the show were massively exaggerated or just plain wrong.

Then there is the chopping and post-editing of the footage to try and show that HAARP was somehow effecting their filming equipment.

The show should be taken with a large pinch of salt.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by MikeNice81
It isn't up to the theorist to prove his theory is possible.


Yes, it is.


OZ you must prove that the theorist's claims can not possibly be true.


Well, out of curiosity, If you tried, could you even disprove him here?
edit on 18-10-2010 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Ouroborus2012
Minus the ranting of what you know about meteorology, much like you ask of the viewers, can you prove that it CAN'T be done? How are you aware of all of the technology out there, released or unreleased?

When did you get de-briefed on what HAARP is capable of and who debriefed you?

Whether I believe it's real or not, I don't understand how people come on here and with threads like this that laugh in the face of stuff that NOBODY knows anything about whether it be real or not. I congratulate you on your achievements and work on this thread but the fact is, you don't know any more about HAARP than me or anybody else...


No, i dont know more than anyone else, I never said that I did.

Did the number of factors that I said needed to be manipulated not give you an idea of what the aim of the OP was? All Im asking is that the people that claim HAARP has abilities to control weather, show how its possible?

Sorry if you dont think thats a fair question



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


I take Jesse Ventura with a grain of salt personally. I love the show but anyways...

Tesla on the other hand was a different story. After his death many of his papers, research and notes were stolen. The funny thing is that later the FBI did do an investigation and said some of the things were of interest to the government. Other officials in the government who studied these papers said it was nothing more then trying to transmit electricity without the use of wires. They also said most of his "theories" were junk.

What a better way then to dis-inform then by saying his research was junk? Maybe HAARP is exactly what they say it is and maybe its not. Since we cant run a big power cord up to space why not figure out a way to move it without wires?

I am not arguing with OP, just saying. Nobody really knows what the hell is going on with any of it when it boils down to it. It is all just a matter of opinion.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Yay! argue "Official Facts" with "Conspiracy Facts" so much fun
you dont see the stupidity Gap somewhere ??



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


Maybe it didn't come across the way I meant. The tongue wagging smiley was meant to denote sarcasim. I knew it wouldn't take long for somebody to ask OZ to prove their was absolutely no way it could happen.

That is the typical move on CT websites these days. People with theorys try to force the other side to prove there is no way in the world their theory is possible. Instead of proving their wild claim of the day they want you to prove a negative.

Don't forget, even if you do happen to prove a theory wrong, someone will eventually say, "but he had a lot of good points and that stuff is scary. He might be more right than we know." So, even if you completely debunk the craziest idea in the world, somebody is still going to say you might be wrong.

My thread hijack ends here.



or

here.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 

Oz,


HAARP Can Not Control Weather....Can You Even Prove it Does?


Well.....I bought one of these HAARP-thing-a-ma-jigs on E-Bay last summer and just for you I fired it up. And if I am not mistaken it should be raining where you are, right about......now.

But seriously, I know just about nothing when it comes to the weather beside the experience I have with it as a layman. It always amazes me the sheer power mother nature can generate...1 billion volts lightning, +300 mph wind speeds.......no way we could ever hope to control such immense forces. Steer it? Perhaps, don't know. But controlling/generating it......no way!!!

Just my unprofessional 2 cents. S+F


Peace



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Ouroborus2012

Did the number of factors that I said needed to be manipulated not give you an idea of what the aim of the OP was? All Im asking is that the people that claim HAARP has abilities to control weather, show how its possible?

Sorry if you dont think thats a fair question


No No, perfectly fair question.. My question was identicle, who's to say there's something out there that can or can not manipulate all of the above? It's perpetual, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. I most certainly understand where you're coming from as it's obviously your career!

I only state that because SO many people on here beat themselves to death trying to get in to a pissing match with one another on who's theory is right, who's science is right, who's math is right, who's philosophy is right etc. etc... And why?



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by operation mindcrime
[

HAARP Can Not Control Weather....Can You Even Prove it Does?


Well.....I bought one of these HAARP-thing-a-ma-jigs on E-Bay last summer and just for you I fired it up. And if I am not mistaken it should be raining where you are, right about......now.


Lol, we just went through the second dryest winter on record.....we havent even got half our annual rainfall yet and we only got 3 months to go.



But seriously, I know just about nothing when it comes to the weather beside the experience I have with it as a layman. It always amazes me the sheer power mother nature can generate...1 billion volts lightning, +300 mph wind speeds.......no way we could ever hope to control such immense forces. Steer it? Perhaps, don't know. But controlling/generating it......no way!!!

Just my unprofessional 2 cents. S+F


Peace


Well considering that the sun puts out such a huge amount of energy, HAARP would need to put out even more to actually control weather systems. Im not sure of anything on Earth that can put out such vast quantities of energy



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 




HAARP Can Not Control Weather....Can You Even Prove it Does?


Can you prove it does not?

Okay, forget that. This comment is not to argue weather control but rather, to critique your post title/subject point.

We have created for ourselves a society of absolutists. We no longer have the ability nor the urge to take a joke, accept theories contrary to our own or simply just to live/think and let live/think. It's got to be THIS or THAT and if you subscribe to THAT, you are a... (Fill in blank with favorite insult).

You can no more prove that WKRP... er, HAARP does NOT control the weather than anyone can prove to you thatit does.

And do you understand WHY this is?

Because, we neither know you, trust you or like you well enough to trust you that far... no more than you know, trust or like anyone else well enough to believe the contrary.

And to that end, proof... indisputable proof of anything at all is pie in the sky... because you just can't make everyone a believer in anything, no matter what you offer for bonafides.

This is where religion and faith triumphs over science and fact... and where the human condition writes rules that cannot be broken. Truth is better than fact but if you ask someone what the truth is, you will rarely get two answers that are the same.

In the end, whether HAARP has the ability to alter the weather is less important than whether it is believed to be so.


Best








edit on 18-10-2010 by redoubt because: Grammar, textual, typos
edit on 18-10-2010 by redoubt because: Iiiiee.. misspelling!!!!



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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Nice picture, thanks.
I can finally see the coiled wire around the center of the antenna.
Some say for rotational effect on hydrogen and other atoms or
perhaps pulsing to shake them up as in agitation.
This might increase the temperature in the focus area.
What that is supposed to do I do not know.
Control the weather, not bloody likely.
Make an ionized patch in the sky for some purpose, perhaps.
Can't say much more unless the Tesla researchers have archived
enough info form me to find on the matter, they are kind of scarce on
the real deal like the rest of us.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by hinky
If clouds can communicate then maybe, just maybe; they listen to radio also.

Okay, seriously, I really want to know you plan on tying HAARP and chemtrails together. They go hand in hand you know.




wat?



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Do you lose rep for replying to stupid posts? I'm new. This is ridiculous, this post. You should do research before you make a lame post with ad hominems and false statements. Firstly ,to use the HAARP website is like using Whitehouse.gov to find out about WMD's. There is a lot of credible documentation about weather modification that has been going on since the 50's, and a some hard research would be a more enlightening approach.





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