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Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?

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posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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In the bible Jesus died on the cross to save mankind from their sins. As long as man puts his faith in Jesus (in so many words) then he will be on the first train to heaven when death comes knocking. What I don't get is why this happening took place in one part of the world only. Surely god had the rest of mankind in mind when souls are at stake. Sure all the people around that area of the world at that time may have known about Jesus and the 'word' but what about other parts of the world. They weren't lucky enough to be shown the way. Many generations went by until that story spread everywhere. To this day missionaries go around finding new people to preach this too. God couldn't figure out how to get the word out to everyone. I just don't get it.

People might be wasting a lot of time worshipping and believing in these things. Time wasted is a terrible thing I was always taught. A poster before me compared the bible to a comic book meant to control the masses. Hits the nail pretty much on the head there. Gullibility makes many people rich. Wake up folks.



posted on Oct, 18 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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You seem to have thought a lot about this, but appear to get some of the key points wrong.

1. Christ dying was not an attempt to save people from the physical death.

2. The tradition of depicting Christ with long hair and a beard is irrelevant. He is typically depicted as white too...

3. When you talk of Jesus drugging himself with the wine, his disciples also drank from it. If it was enough to knock him out for roughly 3 days as you suggest, then his disciples sure would have been too out of it to run around denying him.

4. The incision in the side inflicted by the soldier was used by the Romans to tell if they were deceased (regularly, not just with Christ). If I recall correctly, a clear liquid comes out of the would, as the blood has stopped pumping and the properties begin to separate.

5. You talk of Jesus being unable to carry the timber. You state this directly after you say he was beaten. Now the Jews whipped their criminals 40 times with a 9 fingered leather whip, with each finger having a sharp piece of bone or lead on the end. The Romans however, did not restrict themselves to just 40 lashes, but as many as they felt like, resulting in most criminals convicted to die of crucifixion, to be killed before they were crucified! I'm pretty sure most of us would have trouble carry ourselves let alone some logs.

Yes, as you say Judas was crucial to the plan. Jesus was intended to die, and even expected it. I don't know if he was necessarily 'in on it', but definitely part of the plan.

I want to try to clear something up too. Jesus is not the son of God, not as we understand the word son. Jesus was part of God. I know it is difficult for people to comprehend the trinity, but it in nowhere near as impossible as people think. Eg. I have two hands, one on my left, one on my right. They are about 80cm from my head. They are not at the exact same space as my head, and I can move them independently of each other and my head. But in the end, they are all still a part of me



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Many years later(after seeing the angel bright like lightning) one night, though I think both events were either late or in the wee hours of morning I really don't remember or know for certain, when I had begun to open a pocket size green Gideon NT that a woman had left on the kitchen bar a few days earlier yet before reading anything, I heard an audible voice speak as if sitting beside me like a friend would to the left that said my name then- “I am Jesus, I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish” exceedingly awestruck (previous to this I was saying God and specifically Christian anything was all just something for the weakminded) I quickly stood to my feet turned towards the voice and said yes Lord-

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.-John5.25

For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.-2Corinthians5.14

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.-Acts9.3



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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My thought, is that Christianity has been twisted by those in power, which first started in Rome. I believe that we are not sinners, as "mistakes" or negative actions are required for humanity to learn. Who is this "God" to judge me?



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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It should seem reasonable for one to imagine the spirit/soul of a/the creator taking the 'form' of it's creation to interact with it to see how they see, be as they be, and to affect influence on that creation with respect to free-will. The flesh is flesh though the spirit/soul of the being is everlasting though some brighter and lighter than others.

The 'spark' of life is at the will of a/the creator.
A spirit/soul may come and go at random, from the body of a Joseph to the David slew goliath.
The corpse is jsst a biological container.

This is way I seA it.
Jesus was/Is primarily concerned with promoting the simple concept of treating one's neighbor as a brother so that they may grow in tandem with one another and to realize their inherent gifts for the betterment of society and 'creation' itself. Two gifts working in tandem produce much more than 2 gifts working in confliction with one another.

Jesus preferred to communicate using symbols in the sand.
He did not rely on the word of man, human construct of deception by design.
If one studies the history of linguistics, they will understand just how deceptive and manipulative the lingual syntax is by design. If you google this topic, there is much information on this topic in summarized form for the 'theme' of it all.

We are in some 'interesting' times folks.
Who's your brother?
Your neighbor.
edit on 19-10-2010 by Perseus Apex because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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I won't pretend like I'm an expert on this subject matter, however i had heard of the similarities between Christ and MANY other previous religions/faiths, when i came across a really great movie today.
The Movie was Called "The Man From Earth" and without giving too much away, at one point it is mentioned that Jesus (who had been spreading Buddhist teachings) used his many years of practice to slow his heart rate down and bodily functions to a point where it would appear he was dead. Then in an effort to escape the craze being made over him, he would "wake up" from the self-induced slumber and leave his tomb, which his followers had mistaken for his resurrection.

Overall it's a very interesting concept.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Stuffed
 


I understand that the 'missing' years of Jesus was spent on a traveling mission throughout the known kingdom including the land known as IndieA. There were many prophets, spirits, souls throughout the ages. Some listen, some don't, all suffer the consequence. Ripple effect.....

No creation is gifted with 'all'.
Hence the parts, make up the whole.
When the 'whole' is realized, enter/space.....

Those that enter the heaven of 'space' could live indefinately.
There are multiple organic or flesh extending therapies out there for the knowing.
.....though the soul/spirit, the conscience of it all is everlasting, everendearing one to do the right thing.

Souls simply move Up or move along.....to try again within the confines of the earthen breeding/proving ground.
One soul can offer another what it yearns for.
One could define this as love.

True love is a powerful aphrodesiac when applied with reason.
For one to 'create' as only 'they' can create is the 'purpose' of man.
I believe mankind has quite an audience.

Each being is 'creative' in it's own way, is it not?
Nature itself is co-existant.
.....

Humans were not designed to be animals though many have been bred to be.
One has always had a choice.
To view another as a 'soul' rather than a shell is quite a jump in perspective as well as wisdom.
edit on 19-10-2010 by Perseus Apex because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 02:33 AM
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Well, you are asking what happened 2000 years ago. Here's what I figured out.

2000 years ago someone triggered the curse of Malachi. The verses in question.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So what's the problem?
Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Herod killed John the Baptist in Matthew 14. According to Malachi and Jesus Christ then he triggered the curse of Malachi. And why is that important? According to Malachi the job of Messiah was a 2 person job.

Malachi 3
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Why 2 men? Because according to Zechariah the Messiah and Elijah were supposed to have been the Branch.
Zechariah 4
2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Zechariah 6
11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

With Elijah dead and the curse triggered It wasn't possible to fulfill the Zechariah/Malachi prophesies in the first century AD. And then the problem is to figure out the curse.

After some search I found it. To understand the curse you do need a working knowledge of Leviticus 26. The covenant made between God and the Israelites that were with Moses. This agreement details the benefits of having a relationship with the God of the Jews under Judaism and the punishments for breaking it.

Then the curse of Malachi is detailed in the book of Hosea. Turns out "God" is quite upset at the Jews and Israelites. It would help to read the entire book of Hosea but here is the curse in a nutshell.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Hosea 5
12 Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.
13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 13
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.

But here is the length of the curse. But you need to know this to understand it.
2nd Peter
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

In killing John the Baptist Herod triggered a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. It's still running. But my best guess would say it's over in May of 2028 at the latest.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 02:50 AM
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Sounds mostly accurate to me though much meaning is lost in translation.
To seA a form/truth, then applied to mind, then transcribed to paper.
Many stories in the bible are based on truth while others are based on 'theme'.
Much was lost in translation.....

One's vocabulary, education was quite limited in those times and therefor the elders or wise men chose to teach/instruct the educated as well as the uneducated with stories/themes of which all could understand.

Could you imagine speaking of scientific terms to a wild tribe in the bush?
One the other hand, One could tell a story/theme and it is understood.
Ethical and moral codes were transcribed to print at the time of the threat of Roman domination over the land of the Israelites. Both ascribed to a/the creators though with different themes and differing understanding of the other dimensions comprised of divinity and truth.
edit on 19-10-2010 by Perseus Apex because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM
Hello my friend,

My conspiracy theory of the Bible is a bit different than yours. I have been following the thread and know we see things a bit differently. This is perfectly fine by me. However, I do wonder, what is your end game?

Supposing all you say is accurate, what is your final point? Are you suggesting that Jes.. who ever, is still alive or perhaps that he survived and had off spring?


Atleast it would bring the NT a bit further from the shadows of hocus pocus and mambo jambo, that there is nothing magic in Jesjuah dying and being ressurrected, only love and knowledge of medicine and quite a bit of courrage. It would paint the story of a prophet with more human and down to Earth personality, not a demigod who did lots of magic stuff infront of peasants and fishermen, that he was a person who shared knowledge of healing and nature allowing him to explain how it is not only possible to walk on water, but that it is actually quite fun too. Lake Genesareth sometimes froze over during vinter back then, and ice is as good water as water itself. It would paint the silhuette of a person, rather than some human god who must be worshipped within the borders of strict theology and papal decretes etc. It would be possible for reasonable people to read the stories as all the impossible things would simply be a faint memory from the time when the Christians worshipped miracles instead of carrying our crosses, working in God's service by healing the sick, helping the poor, visiting prisoners helping lost sheep back to their flock and so on. However, if we had all practised true Christianity based on the NT, using the books to wage war and subdue the populace would be impossible. At least that is my honest opinion. Or hope anyway.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by lisa2012
 


I have always been interrested in Jesjuah's lost years and his time after he left his students and travelled away from Judea. The Indian connection is indeed intriguing, and can explain many things in a more understandable and unmagic light. Did you know that Buddhism is the fastest growing beliefsystem in Israel today and might eventually threaten Judaism itself?



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:05 AM
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Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?




NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNO!

He travelled to escape the elders of the forest to navigate systems across the boarder. To persuade the sculped and never the less, YOU! betended.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


Is it plausible to think that he staged or rather faked his own death – a conspiracy





Well, considering his birth, life, death, resurrection, ect., have all been faked (forged is a better word IMO), I'd say it's safe to say it was not plausible...




Ding, ding, ding! Close the betting windows, we have a winner! The post-Temple destruction Romans spun their lies. They're still getting over on the rubes.......er..... faithful. Moses went into the mountains alone and it took him weeks to chisel his version of Hammurabi's Code into stone, that is if even that much was not a tall tale. Tribal tales, fairy tales, what have you. This is why the world leaders get over on a majority of you. There is no answer man in the sky. And the greatest Roman lie of all was the one where they bragged on running the "King of the Jews" up a flag pole after they destroyed their precious Temple Mount. Thus derailing the Zealots while rendering every conquered people subservient to their newly created state religion. Who needs a legion to control the rubes when you can simply install a priest.


"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
It would be possible for reasonable people to read the stories as all the impossible things would simply be a faint memory from the time when the Christians worshipped miracles instead of carrying our crosses, working in God's service by healing the sick, helping the poor, visiting prisoners helping lost sheep back to their flock and so on. However, if we had all practised true Christianity based on the NT, using the books to wage war and subdue the populace would be impossible. At least that is my honest opinion. Or hope anyway.


Your intent is an honorable one my friend. Our differences of perspective are irrelevant.

Jesus taught the power of ones free will. Every Man is born with eyes to see ears to hear and a mind to comprehend this existence. Every man is born with his own will to use these things how ever he sees fit, so long as he does not intrude on anothers right to do so as well. Understanding this basic message, one can see that love for each other is tantamount to carrying our Gods will. If you take away the theatrical exagerations from the stories told in the New Testament, You can see that by the simple principles above, all of the perceived miracles are not only possible by everyone, but are much simpler truths.

Turning water into wine: I hold in my hand a glass of water. Knowing that I have free will, eyes to see, and ears to hear, I have the same right by God to call this glass of water anything I so choose. For you to have the same right to free will, you must be willing to extend it to all, or you justify your own being taken. So, this glass of water, I now call wine. If you understand the lesson, you accept my right to call it what I want. Thus, it IS wine.

Sharing Bread and fish: If you truly love your Brothers and Sisters as God wishes us to love one another, you will not accept having more than them. Thus, if you have but one loaf and ten to feed, you divide that loaf into 10 equal parts. All share equally and all are filled abundantly on love. The same shall the fish be divided to feed all equally. Now some will say, how can the body survive on just one loaf and one fish divided into such small parts. If one shares what they have equally with all, others bring forth what they have and are equally willing to share. Love as a multiplying effect. It is the will of God.

Cast the Mountain into the sea: A Mountain is an immovable, permanent feature of the earth. The sea is a fluid constantly moving feature of the earth. The action of casting is representative of our free will. It is through our own free will that we can move the solid immovable features of our lives into a fluid and movable features. An example would be our beliefs. If our beliefs are solid like a mountain, they cannot shift and change with new more accurate information. They stand in our way to growth like as impossingly as a mountain. However, by simply willing it, we can cast that mountain into the sea, and our beliefs become fluid and constantly adjusting to new updated information, thus we grow.

Healing the blind: The blind are not those who cannot see with their physical eyes. The blind are those who rigidly hold an opinion when obvious new information is presented which challenges their opinion. I hope the above examples have helped some blind to see.

Healing lepers: A leper is an outcast of society. They are the ones deemed not fit to be around for what ever reason. It isn't the leper who needs to be healed, it is the society which casts him out. By healing the society, ie. teaching them to love each other instead of judge each other, the leper is welcomed back into the society and his condition, being outcast, is cured.

Raising the dead: The dead are those who, through the hardships of life have forgotten or lost faith in love. The live a state of misery and truly are dead in spirit. By teaching them to have faith in love, by loving them, they are raised from this condition and brought back to the world of the living. Sadly, the world is over populated with the dead at the moment. It is my hope that I have raised some from the dead in my brief time at this forum.

My friend, the truth is within you. The Bible has no life. The word of God is Life. It was his breath that brought us up from the dust. Without it, we return to the dust. To preserve the word of God is to cherish it. To cherish it is to love. To love is to fulfil God's will.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I have not caught up on this thread since earlier today but when I left the OP kept saying that the point to the OP was that scripture backs the claims the OP made and was wanting someone to try to say otherwise if they could.

OP....you know in scripture it goes on to talk of Jesus being placed in the tomb...that those who knew him best were with him. It goes on to talk of the scares they saw on his body when they later seen him after the tomb was empty.

So are you saying that one little part of scripture hides information but all the other information is a lie....

Did the ones that knew him know it was someone else on the cross? Is this your suggestion? Or that they knew it was not him and the authors only made things up to make it seem so?

Either way....there is a lie in the scriptures then...by what you are suggesting..and then you want scriptures to prove your wrong?

I dont get it, really.


No lies needed, only a bit of reading between the lines and seeing the information through the filter of common sense and the actual mission of Jesjuah, which was to help people and to love eachother. On Calvary, a symphony of the Love Jesjuah preached was played out, but if people want to believe that their God is Dead, it's fine for me. No person can be dead more than a few minutes before the brain starts decaying. However, if it is cold outside one might last over an hour and even longer. Personally I two friends who have been declared braindead and have been dead for almost an hour. One of them died in a carcrash ending up inside the car under water where he soon drowned. Since the water was so cold, he suffered no brain damage eventhough he had been dead for more than 45 minutes. My other friend has died twise and both times she was dead for about an hour. But since there were people around knowing vital first aid, they placed her in the bathtub and filled it up with ice and stuff from the freezer. She survived both incidents without any other damage to her body and brain than having no clear recollection of the coarse of events.

So when people argue and say it would be impossible for Jesjuah to be dead for about ten or fifteen minutes, the time needed to run back and forth between Calvary and Pilate's palace, I can only pity them. Remember that this was late winter, ealy spring, and the temperature in the area was quite low, and the only cloathes Jesjuah wore were his underpants


So what about the ones that saw him, and saw his scares....was this Jesus or not? Is this made up or not? So do the scriptures hold truth or not>?


Though I am indeed willing to think that it is possible that Jesjuah was infact not the person on the cross, I suggest you read the OP once more and understand that nowhere in the OP do I say that anyone else than Jesjuah ha Mesjiach who were crucified between the two criminals at Calvary that day. However, his name wasnot and never has been Jesus. He was an Aramaic speaking Jew of Judah tribe, and he carried a Hebro-Aramaic name, transliterated into Jesjuah or Yeshuah/Yahswah. But later on the Roman club needed to set up limits against other communities and invented the name Jesus or originally Jesvs or Iesvs. Later Rome obviously figured out that their mangod's name Jesus added up to the Number of the Beast 616 in Hebrew gematria. But instead of changing the name back to it's original spelling, they simply changed the number of the Beast from 616 to 666, said emperor Nero was the Beast and that Revelations had already been fulfilled, and later that the Pope was the replacement of their Jesus. So the beast is Jesus (the fake Roman version of the Jewish Messiah Jesjuah son of Joseph) whom all must worship in order to enter Heaven, while all the other people who carry different beliefs and so on, would all end up in Hell where they would be torn appart over and over into eternity, they preach that their Jesus died on Calvary and was magically ressurrected, instead of what I have come to believe, based on the same texts, that Jesjuah ha Mesjiach was saved because among other the Centurion traditionally called Longinus Panthera, showed Jesjuah and God the Greatest Love, or to say it like Jesjuah:

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" John 15:13.


Do you not see something a miss with using scriptures to back up if your wrong or right? For the scriptures do suggests that those that loved him witnessed his death on the cross...knew of his tomb and visited it....saw him 'anew' with scares from the crucifixion.


They were witnessing from a distance, as discribed in the Gospels:

Mark 15:40 NIV
"Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome."

Luke 23:49 NIV
"But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things."


I guess the reason I did not try to 'prove you wrong' like you were wanting others to try to do...because I see no point in taking any book of history as 100% proof of anything. Even if we do, like you are wanting....then one can say also, there is indeed proof in the scriptures that he did die and he was placed in a tomb and that people saw him with the scares.


Like I stated in the OP, I am aware that most Christians might be offended and/or would raid the thread with mumbojumbo from theological angles and the stories they have been indoctrinated into believe in the light of highly speculative and spurious interpretations, most of them ages old, and keep parroting their theology based indoctrinated bullcrap which simply cannot be true one way or the other. Jesjuah didn't die for us, he was mistreated and tortured due to our transgressions. There's a wide difference between those two.


Now...besides that...the place that is in the scriptures that always gave me a funny feeling was when he had trouble carrying the cross and another carried it for him. Again...I dont take scriptures as proof...but this part always seemed like it was missing something to it.


I believe that he was already suffering from asphyxiation when he was placed before Pilate, and the series of events following, his he could barely walk and he took his "last breath" only a few hours after being nailed to the cross.


Ive read the idea in the gnostic gospel about it not being Jesus on the cross.


I think you mean the Koran and Islamic tradition who actually holds Jesjuah as a prominent prophet. Somewhere in their texts it is explained how "Issa" was not the one who was crucified, but that he ran away and lived to be a 120 years old.


It did not feel right and goes against Jesus's honest nature to deceive people and I dont think that all of those that loved him would of let such a thing go unnoticed nor do I think they all would of backed such a deception when he taught them honesty and humbleness.


Read my signature and tell me what you don't understand. Jesjuah came into this world to be a rock of offence and a stumbling block.


Jesus did not have to die....but he knew, fighting for his life was against everything he taught. He walked the walked...call it what you will.

Edit to add...if I misunderstood what your points were, my apologies, Im re reading it all with a fresh mind.

edit on 18-10-2010 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)


Oh, darn, should have read the edit log before I started going through your reply with lights and lamps
Oh well...



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by Soldier of God
 


Lol are you serious?

Are we not all God's children? So why would he care if just one of his children was sacrificed? God's children die every day and he seemingly doesn't give a #.

In order to give a damn I guess you have to exist first and in my opinion God doesn't exist (definitely not the God of any religious book anyway).



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by IllMannered
In the bible Jesus died on the cross to save mankind from their sins.


That is Catholic dogma, and extra biblical. According to the Bible, Jesjuah the Messiah was wounded for our transgressions and iniquities. It is our fault that he was crucified, and the only thing we benefited from it, was that "his big mouth was shut up" so to speek. I just try to make it up somehow, and if you look closely, the texts of Jesjuah is discribing quite a lot of medical esotheria. If your eye hurts to bad (inflicted by evil) Jesjuah's advise is to pluck it out and cast it away, and if your right arm is full of evil (like Gangrene for instance, but modern bibles translate it "if it leads you to sin") you should cut it off and throw it away lest your whole body would become infested and you would end up being burnt in Gehenna (translated Hell in modern bibles) outside Jerusalem.

Had Jesjuah been killed as attonement for sins, what happened would have been human sacrifice, which is perhaps THE most sacriligeous thing to do. No human sacrifice would ever please God, and it wouldn't work. However, up through the years and ages sin and damnation became good dollars for the Church, so it was important to substasiate their claims by editing the bible or deliberately mistranslate words putting everything in a context of sin and evil, death. They wanted to scar the money out of people. And seeing all their cathedrals and magnificent buildings and works of art, we all know who the god of the Vatican is: Mammon and no other.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 





It is our fault that he was crucified, and the only thing we benefited from it, was that "his big mouth was shut up" so to speek.


My dear friend...do you not see past it all? After all that you have read and studied, do you not see what the worth and value here is that is shown to you?

Have you not been prepared to walk such a path if you speak out against a crowd?

If one is truly, honestly, humbly, walking the life of Spirit....they KNOW its not the right path to choose to fight for this life. He didnt only teach it, he walked it! Others have done the same. The will, offering, of their own life of flesh....to bring a voice....to make others question....to cause the light of Spirit to shine.

It would of not been of the same nature he spoke others to be....if he would of fought for his life of flesh.

Its a act of knowing and choosing, which life is to fight for. This is why he taught, while we love those of flesh, mentally, we have to understand, even detachment from family at times....to truly understand what it means to detach from things of flesh. He showed it was not easy...he showed, the choice was painful...he showed though, he had faith, in what he taught.

The benefit is grand....it lights the path for others of what they need to do.

Yes, many misunderstand the benefit....and only in their 'self' seeking do they not understand. When they turn to Thee and start to seek for the ONE in ALL...they will be shown a different benefit and be thankful for the light on the path, for it is a tough path, often the feeling of 'alone' is of this path, and the mind complex of Jesus (what ever be his name matters not) can help them find the strength, courage, and worth in their own self, to pick up the Earthly cross, with all its earthly attributes on it, and walk the life of Spirit.

LV



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Hemisphere
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)


You do realize, I hope, that this is not a quote from a Pope, but a line from the satiric play "The Pageant of the Popes" by the Protestant playwright John Bale.

Well, I suppose that you didn't know that. Kinda makes your credibility suffer, though.



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 





I think you mean the Koran and Islamic tradition who actually holds Jesjuah as a prominent prophet. Somewhere in their texts it is explained how "Issa" was not the one who was crucified, but that he ran away and lived to be a 120 years old.


No...there is a gnostic gospel that is very demanding that it was not Jesus on the cross. Even that he stands in the distance and laughs at the people for thinking it is so.

Would you like me to find it?

I still stand by what I say, though I appreciate your comments to my posts. You have no more valid reasons to believe what you have said then others have valid reasons backed by scriptures to believe what they choose.

None are 'epic fail' as you have suggested in another response to someone.

If I listed the things that I found by reading between the lines....we could make a forum just for 'LV's interpretations of reading between the lines'. Seriously.

Thanks for sharing, the idea was thought provoking, but your not willing to see that it cant be proven any more so then what others keep bringing you from scripture to back up "what they think".




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