Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil

There is nothing in Christianity that dictates this, regardless of what you may believe. When I look back at my life, I fail to see where I have not grown to my full potential, as most who practice Christ's real teaching of loving God and loving others find.

You're trapped in the same mire as the fundamentalists that you decry, except on the opposite side. You've become boxed in by rigid beliefs that reflect your biases, not reality.

i have no become boxed, i feel more free, knowing we are all one and that all should have love and need love, my criticism is to be constructive, so im constructing and deconstructing the book

To claim that the faith which sustains me and brings me joy, as it does to millions of others, is somehow "sad and just not human at all" demonstrates your complete indifference to those who don't believe as you do, regardless of what you think being "humanistic" is.


I understand and support your disbelief, you seem to feel the need to criticize and belittle my faith. Do you see this as your path to "understanding and love"?

how many people do you know who PRACTICE jebus real teachings? narrow is the gate, its hard to love always and unconditionally

fear of the lord and even paul said to listen to all authorities for they are blessed from god, so fear and control right there, hmmm not saying it was individual but as a whole, dont take it as an aim at you personally so to say (who you are)

how is what i believe a disbelief? its all subjective
i dont criticize and belittle your faith
im criticizing a book and its magical fairy tale and its genocides of men who live in a mansion in the sky who is his own father and is waiting to come back to destroy man yet again, yet the devil (the worst of em) only gets a pit for 1000 years and is free once again while others die and burn and are plagued then only then the little red horned man is cast to a lake of burning fire FOREVER
forever never ends so why the wait?

im not harming you, im just trying to get you to question what you dont want to question

god doesnt need you to believe in him. he believes in you for he is in you, in all of us

thats what we need to see, we are a piece of god who make up god, everything that has life has creation
god is a stupid name
creation is just that
thats it

edit on 20-10-2010 by MurderCityDevil because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by eight bits

not really when it affects the lives of others and controls through fear and never lets one grow to whoever they can be with all their potential because of shame and guilt from a book is pretty sad and just not human at all.

No. Take a breath.

If there is some person or institution who has psychologically abused people, then by all means oppose that misbehavior. That person or institution needs to be opposed.

Opposition does not consist of asking the malefactor what books he likes to read, or whom he would nominate as the fall guy for his misdeeds. "Oh, I read the Bible, and God told me to do these things."

If that line affects your attitude about God, then congratulations, sucker, because the bad guy has just succeeded in distracting you from effectively opposing him, and instead sent you off on a wild goose chase.

Now, what I don't understand is why an atheist would tell me that I should oppose God, rather than tell me I should focus on the people and institutions that do bad things. Surely people so self conscious of their devotion to logic couldn't have been fooled by some pious pretender who told them "God made me do it."

who said i was atheist?

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
how many people do you know who PRACTICE jebus real teachings?

.. snip ..

i dont criticize and belittle your faith

If you don't realize that referring to Christ as "Jebus" (yes, I watch the Simpsons, too) is belittling, then you have no concept of the word. When you learn to respect the beliefs of others, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, you will be ready to have a grown up conversation on such subjects.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
how many people do you know who PRACTICE jebus real teachings?

.. snip ..

i dont criticize and belittle your faith

If you don't realize that referring to Christ as "Jebus" (yes, I watch the Simpsons, too) is belittling, then you have no concept of the word. When you learn to respect the beliefs of others, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, you will be ready to have a grown up conversation on such subjects.

isnt calling him jesus a little belittling? considering it means image of zeus?

je-zues
but ill digress, these posts never really go anywhere anyway and religion will continue to destroy human potential

ob la di ob la da

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
how many people do you know who PRACTICE jebus real teachings?

.. snip ..

i dont criticize and belittle your faith

If you don't realize that referring to Christ as "Jebus" (yes, I watch the Simpsons, too) is belittling, then you have no concept of the word. When you learn to respect the beliefs of others, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, you will be ready to have a grown up conversation on such subjects.

isnt calling him jesus a little belittling? considering it means image of zeus?

je-zues

No, it does not mean "image of Zeus". Good grief.

As with the guy who claimed that a line from a satiric play was spoken by a Pope, or The Djin's continued professions of ignorance, when you say something so ridiculously wrong, it damages your credibility and makes people question everything that you say. That's the same, whether you're arguing religion, politics or anything else.

who said i was atheist?

Beats me. You quoted my post in its entirety, and you can see for yourself that I didn't say you were an atheist.

All of my paragraphs that were addressed to you spoke of your approval or disapproval of God, not whether you believe in God. The validity of the points addressed to you is unaffected by your beliefs, whatever they happen to be, either way.

In my final paragraph, I expressed wonderment that an atheist would say the same thing you did, which some atheists have. This followed up on a point made by adjensen, to which you had responded, so it is reasonable to surmise that you are familiar with the phenomenon being discussed in that paragraph.

I did not express wonderment that you said it, however. Obviously, one needn't be an atheist to contribute an explanation of atheist behavior, nor even to offer it as a cogent explanation.

[004:157] And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ):

[004:158] But Allah raised him (Iesa (Jesus)) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise.

reply to post by MurderCityDevil


["isnt calling him jesus a little belittling? considering it means image of zeus? je-zues
but ill digress, these posts never really go anywhere anyway and religion will continue to destroy human potential']

Many sacred name movement people believe and openly propagate the myth that the name of Jesus is in some way connected with or derived etymologically from the name Zeus.

Some sacred name people teach this false doctrine; some do not. Regardless of the position an individual Sacred Name person may take, this fact remains: a large segment of the movement still believes this lie. Promoting the Jesus = Zeus myth to new converts is an easy way to get them away from saying the name of Jesus. It gives them a reason to look down on, even hate, the name of Jesus. The teachers of the movement use this lie as an appeal to the need many people have to possess esoteric knowledge which gives them a superiority over others.

www.sacrednamemovement.com...

@Adjensen

What i meant was that the religion itself is all fear based, everything is decided and predicated on the fear of god, and his wrath.

The reason you feel full potential is because you cannot see farther than that which has been instilled in you to be....certainly does not mean its a true full potential....quite limited in fact.

Every thought you have is owned by this religion, and you like to be owned , fair enough...when christ consciousness really hits, it NEVER has to do with the bible, or a church, which is why the people have no real victory, and therefore go back to hear the same crap repeated so they can try and believe it to be true....pray for the same problems over and over, since they never are resolved cause they are praying THROUGH someone else.

When you worship something you have agreed that you are a lower life form and therefore have no potential to rise...essentially given all your god-given power away...

I am sorry, but Christianity is doomed to fail, as it always has, and it will vanish very shortly indeed,, since it will just not make any sense at all , anymore.

Jesus returned right now, and in no stretch of any imagination will he approve of any church, and when i say that to preachers, they bloody well know its true....and are left speechless.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
@Adjensen

What i meant was that the religion itself is all fear based, everything is decided and predicated on the fear of god, and his wrath.

Unfortunately, you've succumb to the "fallacy of the loudest." Your view of Christianity (all religion, I guess,) has been shaped by the loudest shouters, the "hellfire and damnation" preachers of the fundamentalists. Sorry to say, they represent a very small minority of the Christian community.

But by getting a skewed perspective of the faith, you have drawn incorrect conclusions. If I may serve as an example of thoughtful, reasoned Christianity, I assure you that I am not motivated by fear, I do not seek to motivate others by fear, and I know of no one in my personal faith community who appears to be driven by their fear.

I am sorry, but Christianity is doomed to fail, as it always has, and it will vanish very shortly indeed,, since it will just not make any sense at all , anymore.

You may wish to believe this, because of your fundamentalist views, but Christ's teachings represent truth in a way that you or I struggle to acknowledge, and neither his teachings, nor his faith, are likely to leave any time, let alone any time soon.

I have seen it said that until religion vanishes from the face of the earth, there can be no peace. I believe that this is fundamentally incorrect, and that peace will continue to elude mankind, until the simple teachings of Christ -- love God, love each other -- are adopted by all, whether through Christ, or through some other means.

Sorry to say, they represent a very small minority of the Christian community.

Tsk. Tsk. You're not one bit sorry to say that .

Now, I post because I think that Grinch's ideas are a little more interesting than being misled by fundies, the "loudest."

First, there is the question of fear. The everyday meaning of the word is that familiar emotional response to danger. But the meaning in a religious context is heightened reverence or awe directed toward one's notion of the Supreme. A thiest, then, would and should have "fear" of God. A follower of an Asian Indian religion might have "fear" of the Brahman. In netiher case would the devotee be responding to any danger.

But you can see where confusion would creep in.

Now, as to Christ consciousness, that is a very interesting phenomenon, but it is simply untrue that "when christ consciousness really hits, it NEVER has to do with the bible, or a church..."

The base literature here are works like William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience (available for free on several sites) or Richard Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness (now available for free download from Google books). Don't get me started on Carl Jung.

But the psychological literature is playing catch-up with a long and continuing tradition of the Eastern Orthodox churches about such things, ultimately directed toward theosis, an ecstatic union with God. Theoretically, theosis is part of Roman Catholic doctrine as well, with some differences, but it is not as emphasized as in the Eastern churches. How much theosis may have penetrated Protestantism I just don't know.

So, anyway, I guess I am just stirring the pot. The situation with organzied Christianity really isn't as Grinch described it, but he is mistaken in a more interesting way than you suggested. IMO.

Originally posted by eight bits

Sorry to say, they represent a very small minority of the Christian community.

Tsk. Tsk. You're not one bit sorry to say that

.

Well, I'm always sorry to hurt someone's feelings :-)

Now, I post because I think that Grinch's ideas are a little more interesting than being misled by fundies, the "loudest."

Perhaps, but my personal experience is that people who have misplaced ideas of Christianity generally have them from hearing some perspective, and assuming that everyone else feels the same way. Reasonable atheists are those who've actually done some reading and have more than a passing understanding of faith. Though as we both know, some of them still argue from a fundamentalist perspective, because it makes their case easier to make ;-)

But the psychological literature is playing catch-up with a long and continuing tradition of the Eastern Orthodox churches about such things, ultimately directed toward theosis, an ecstatic union with God. Theoretically, theosis is part of Roman Catholic doctrine as well, with some differences, but it is not as emphasized as in the Eastern churches. How much theosis may have penetrated Protestantism I just don't know.

Ironically enough, my own church (Methodist) is the only Protestant Church that I know of which has it as a part of doctrine. Wesley taught of the "Grace of Sanctification", by which we could achieve a perfected Christian life, experience the true love of God, and be effectively dead to sin (note to OP, dead TO sin, not dead IN sin, lol). Unlike the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, though, I'm not sure that Wesley viewed complete sanctification as being possible in the mortal existence, and it is subsequently taught as a goal to strive for without the expectation that we'll make it any time soon.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
What i meant was that the religion itself is all fear based, everything is decided and predicated on the fear of god, and his wrath.

Well, I am glad to know this. The faith I practice is love based. And Christian. Must not have gotten the memo. God=love in my life.

I am sorry, but Christianity is doomed to fail, as it always has, and it will vanish very shortly indeed,, since it will just not make any sense at all , anymore.

Hmmm... doomed? A religion that is 1977 years old... and it always had failed?
The vanishing... perhaps you are referring to the "rapture"? I don't subscribe to that personally. Since Christianity is alive and well, that is the only vanishing I could imagine you are referring to.
Perhaps to you Christianity makes no sense. I respect that... "those with wisdom will understand".
Keep on with your wishful thinking.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Are you a Muslim?

reply to post by adjensen


Christianity is interesting is different from other religions that I have heard about. Most religions you have to do something good to earn heaven or be with God. But Christianity says, all are going to hell no matter how good you are or what you have done.

Just want to comment to the reply of 'Christianity is doomed to fail'.

On the path of self, the "I" that we think we are....the idea that for eternity we can be a 'individual self....all beliefs or religions serve a purpose. All religions offer two natures...an Earthly nature and a Spiritual nature and it wont be written in the book which is which. One must discern. Those that take it word for word without discernment will only be measured by this...for this shows what they are ready for and what they are not ready for, in things of Spirit and Earth.

Just as past 'faiths' of 'religions' still can serve a purpose for someone seeking things...so will the Bible continue to serve certain seekers. I do think that it will become a thing of the past...but no more then the ancient ways of long ago have. People still seek out ancient beliefs in of many lands, try to learn why they believed what they did, and in that, there are things to learn of Earth and Spirit. Same will be with any religions connected through the Bible.

But I do think, with time, it will fade as the 'main stream' path. I think new paths are evolving from it...and some of them are tying many beliefs into one belief but this is normal, man has done this with pretty much every single 'belief' that was anew...it came from old beliefs.

With the warnings from the Bible of 'watch for the man carrying the pitcher of water'....and the new age of Aquarius approaching....I defiantly see a new book being written and a new belief system turning into a new religion, with old concepts as its roots.

That would be so illuminating if he did, doing an Elvis on the world!
Would make him more relatable, more human to me if he did.
I would understand completely if he would've done that.
people making you out to be something or someone you are not will get to you.
Being the messiah is some weight to carry.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


I love how many assumptions the OP males. Among the silliest include: " Jesus was a rockstar and faked his own death whihc wasn't that hard at all since he had a beard, long hair and a tunic" or " Jesus drank magic mushroom juice on Thursday so that when he was CRUCIFIED with REAL wounds he could wake up and escape." This thread is a joke. Why bother going through the whole crucifixion thing and not just pretend to die in a fire or fall dowqn stairsor something. Oh right, bexause he thought it be cooler to get nailed to a cross, hanging for hours.

I find theories that say Jesus escaped interesting ( like the one in which he switches with someone while carrying the cross which can't be proved or disproved) but this one is just soooo far fetched, I'm not sure how it made ATS's homepage.

Originally posted by Portugoal
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

I love how many assumptions the OP males. Among the silliest include: " Jesus was a rockstar and faked his own death whihc wasn't that hard at all since he had a beard, long hair and a tunic" or " Jesus drank magic mushroom juice on Thursday so that when he was CRUCIFIED with REAL wounds he could wake up and escape."

This thread is a joke. Why bother going through the whole crucifixion thing and not just pretend to die in a fire or fall dowqn stairsor something. Oh right, bexause he thought it be cooler to get nailed to a cross, hanging for hours.

I find theories that say Jesus escaped interesting ( like the one in which he switches with someone while carrying the cross which can't be proved or disproved) but this one is just soooo far fetched, I'm not sure how it made ATS's homepage.

well also nowhere in the KJV does it say he was nailed to a cross, EVER!!

5 times it says hanged on a tree

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a
tree." (Acts 5.30.)

"And we are witnesses of all things which he [Jesus] did both in the
land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a
tree" (Acts 10.39.)

"And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took
him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre." (Acts 13.29.)

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we,
being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (Peter 2.24.)

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us - for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' (Galatians 3:13).”

well galations just quotes from old testament

and noone really dies from crucifixion in a mere 6-9 hours, it takes days, unless they nicked an artery and he bled slow enough but just enough, but still no record of him "nailed to anything"

youtube "jesus nailed" its a great vid and discusses this topic pretty good

Originally posted by clinton777
reply to post by adjensen

 

Christianity is interesting is different from other religions that I have heard about. Most religions you have to do something good to earn heaven or be with God. But Christianity says, all are going to hell no matter how good you are or what you have done.

That is something of a misconception on your part, sorry. Christianity most certainly does not say that "all are going to hell." Not sure where you came up with that, but it is incorrect.