Revelation; the First Woe

reply to post by deadred

Lifting of the veil? I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
Are you referring to the passage in 2 Corinthians ch3, where Paul says that the Jews read Moses with a veil over their minds, "but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed"?

did'nt see these mentioned anywhere and think they may have some relevance to the subject

Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven: the cankerworm spoileth, and fleeth away.
Thy crowned are as the locusts, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers-Nahum3

one shall be called, The City of Destruction.-Isaiah19

reply to post by Rustami

Thank you for the Nahum ch3 v17 reference, which is interesting.
Yes, that one is is a metaphor about the devastating greed (like locusts) of the princes and religious leaders of the oppressing power Ninevah.
Well worth bearing in mind.

reply to post by DISRAELI
AH-1 or AH 64 comes to mind, this is the US attack helo, it would not be hard to make them crowd controllers, rubber bullets and tear gas, or any type of attack helo, just a thought.

I have a question about all this. If all these things people are seeing add up in the end, it would not surprise me if war broke out after a visitation because of the changes that would be taking place... but do you think that even though biblical prophecy can be hard to interpret in ages where so many strange things aren't happening... that no one would have been able to put any of this together in the last few decades? I mean we have been visited and obviously these things are kept under wraps and something tells me that some of this information could have trickled through. If you look back over the last several decades, isn't it obvious that some knew about this?... or at least knew enough to see the possibility that the potential for something big could be right over the bend? If so, why weren't better efforts made to teach people of changes that were to come... and why those changes should be taking place.. to prepare them and make it less of a cluster# in the event that it something like this did in fact take place. Was informing people simply a failure out of ignorance or superstition or stubbornness or doggishness or was it purposefully kept a secret to fuel the confusion and spark a war that would eliminate a good portion of the population that perhaps could have been controlled with better efforts in the first place?

I'm not trying to derail the thread... my apologies if it seems that way. I just wanted to acknowledge that the thoughts are interesting and add my two cents while considering it a possibility.

Originally posted by ChaosMagician
I mean we have been visited and obviously these things are kept under wraps and something tells me that some of this information could have trickled through.. If so, why weren't better efforts made to teach people of changes that were to come...

I think the short answer is that the interpretation of Revelation I've been putting together in these threads has no connection with the world being "visited" (I assume you mean contact with alien civilisations) and what the authorities might be doing about that.
So if "TPTB" are expecting anything, the things I'm describing are not what they're expecting.
This thread follows on from the "Battered Planet" thread, in which I was speculating that events would be kicked off by a catastrophe, which might be a natural catastrophe.
If it was natural, they would not know about it in advance, and so could not prepare people anyway.

heres another way of interpeting the Locusts & The Pit from whence they emerge on the world for 5 months


the appearance of these 'Locusts' sounds sci-fi-ish...but the vision was related in the writing of a AD 90-150 person's worldview....

The vision of the 'Locusts' is actually a description of the Bacteria that causes the malady among many ethnic groups of men and women.


The 'Pit' is actually the eyepiece of a future microscope... the tube or Pit from which the microscopic
germs, bacteria, viruses can be seen to 'emerge' from...

John's vision was looking down the eyepice lens of a microscope and 'seeing' these alien lifeforms he identified as 'Locusts' with lions teeth, womens hair, a stinger on tails like scorpions...

As i recall in the '60's or '70s, a bestseller book made the interpetation that these Locusts out of the Earth were Air Calvery Attack Helicoptors with both missiles and gattling-guns rotating to the rear...
who? was it hal Lindsey?..
good entertainment


John's vision was a look across time, into a end-time future... after the anti-christ/false prophet has been revealed

i have studied some on the 7 yr, and other 14 yr Locust broods and projected the eras that might be the onset of a recurring plague of Locusts... but finally gave up that model, because an erratic solar cycle might be the cause for a mutated brood of Locusts to mature early and swarm on many continents at once.

The Greys have a locust appearance dont you think?

Originally posted by littlecloud
... So when it says there are human faces it could mean something like humans are the cause of the locusts?

now link that thought with my post on page 3... that the Locusts are from the microscopic realm, and by deduction we could firmy say that these 'Locusts' are genetically engineered bacteria/germs/ concocted
by human scientists or an actual mutant strain of a human engineered virus.

The 'Pit' is to be understood as the tubular piece of a microscope which allows us to see these microscopic alien creatures.

Originally posted by St Udio
As i recall in the '60's or '70s, a bestseller book made the interpetation that these Locusts out of the Earth were Air Calvery Attack Helicoptors with both missiles and gattling-guns rotating to the rear...
who? was it hal Lindsey?..

I remember seeing the helicopter story, and Hal Lindsey sounds about right.
A good example of trying to interpret a random detail without fitting it properly into the overall picture.
We''re looking for something which does not kill (the whole point of military helicopters is that they kill people), but causes mental torture leading to suicidal despair.
If your microbes can do that, the theory could work.

reply to post by Uncle Gravity

I've never actually seen any Greys.
Since we're not sure that they exist, they may not be relevant.

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #17 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

The first woe happens on a future Passover date. I have recently studied this.

The 2nd woe happens when the two witnesses are resurrected.

reply to post by Stargate2012

It may be a mistake to try predicting exact dates.
I know of no evidence whatever that God actually plans to make future events coincide with any kind of festival or anniversary, so calculations based on that assumption are illusions.
I've got a separate thread extant on the second woe.

reply to post by DISRAELI


UM OK!

I love the arguments about God - as if He was a puppetmaster. "Worship me or die." No, it's more like a Parent who says, clean up your room or you'll be discplined. God can intervene, but doesn't always. Men (and women) have agency. Often the exercise of agency can severely impact another (i.e., if a killer takes an innocent's life). God doesn't "set people up." He is a Parent who gives laws and instructions...but it is up to humankind to either follow them or not... As in all rules (laws) there are consequences. If obeyed, laws keep us safe. If disobeyed, lawbreakers (hopefully) are punished.

He is wrathful (demanding justice - consequences for actions) and He is merciful (loving His children and wanting the best for them, as all parents do, but allowing them to make choices for themselves).

What woe, what judgments await humankind are consequences for their actions.

I love the arguments about God - as if He was a puppetmaster. "Worship me or die." No, it's more like a Parent who says, clean up your room or you'll be discplined. God can intervene, but doesn't always. Men (and women) have agency. Often the exercise of agency can severely impact another (i.e., if a killer takes an innocent's life). God doesn't "set people up." He is a Parent who gives laws and instructions...but it is up to humankind to either follow them or not... As in all rules (laws) there are consequences. If obeyed, laws keep us safe. If disobeyed, lawbreakers (hopefully) are punished.

He is wrathful (demanding justice - consequences for actions) and He is merciful (loving His children and wanting the best for them, as all parents do, but allowing them to make choices for themselves).

What woe, what judgments await humankind are consequences for their actions.

I love the arguments about God - as if He was a puppetmaster. "Worship me or die." No, it's more like a Parent who says, clean up your room or you'll be discplined. God can intervene, but doesn't always. Men (and women) have agency. Often the exercise of agency can severely impact another (i.e., if a killer takes an innocent's life). God doesn't "set people up." He is a Parent who gives laws and instructions...but it is up to humankind to either follow them or not... As in all rules (laws) there are consequences. If obeyed, laws keep us safe. If disobeyed, lawbreakers (hopefully) are punished.

He is wrathful (demanding justice - consequences for actions) and He is merciful (loving His children and wanting the best for them, as all parents do, but allowing them to make choices for themselves).

What woe, what judgments await humankind are consequences for their actions.

reply to post by Jansy

Thank you for those comments.
I like to think that "justice" is also part of showing mercy; One of the themes of Revelation is that God saves his people from the powers of evil (mercy) by dealing with the powers of evil (justice). Salvation and judgment can be the same thing, seen from different angles.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012